Marte V Grossman - FIGHT IT OUT!

[Illinest]

When i saw his face i thought "43?"

 

[thedddd]

Marte may come up when Fox goes down.

I thought the Pirates released Jake Fox?

 

[26 elroy face]

Marte may come up when Fox goes down.

Ooops- When Fryer goes down

 

[thedddd]

Ooops- When Fryer goes down

LOL...Good I was thinking they brought Fox back! God I hope they didn't.

Looks like Mercer was called back up for Presley.

 

[Illinest]

Grossman may finally be making a competition out of it again.

Marte first. .832 OPS and a 6.8 BB%. Not bad at all.

Grossman - one year behind in development and age don't forget - now up to .787 with a 14 BB%.

Now I haven't forgotten that Marte is a better fielder and that his final line at AA was .870. Grossman still has a long way to go to match that figure.

On the other hand Grossman's peripherals are some of the rosiest peripherals ever. I bet you'd find lots of stat-heads that would take a slightly lower OPS if the BB% and SO% are more favorable.
Grossman has also been hot as hell the last two months and it seems more likely every day that the poor start to the season was just an adjustment period. I still rate Marte above Grossman by a small margin but I do get excited when Grossman performs well enough to justify a comparison between the two of them.

 

[thecrow124]

I am having a hard time rating Grossman as anything more than a marginal 4th OFer prospect. Doesn't hit for enough power or a good enough average. About the only thing he does decently is draw walks, but in doing so seems to also put himself into a lot of pitcher counts.
Marte is far and away the better prospects in my opinion, and it isn't even close. While I don't think either of the 2 will ever reach star status, I do think Marte will be a productive starting OFer.
I could be and probably am going to be wrong on my assessment of the 2, but it is just how I see it right now.

 

[Etrius24]

The plate discipline is what might make grossman more than a marginal 4th outfielder... If Marte cannot hit for a high average his lack of plate discipline will make it hard for him to be a regular in the big leagues.

Grossman does not have 30+ homerun power in his bat.. but he might have 20 homerun pop with 40 doubles... and when you look at the walks and the ability to steal a base here and there... You have something pretty useful... I see grossman as an upgrade over Jones as a corner outfielder.. just because he will be a plus defender as a corner outfielder.. he will run better on the bases... he will hit almost as many homeruns as jones but he will get on base 30% more often..

That is how I see Grossman as a major league player.

Sorry but for me the ability to control the strike zone draw walks and get on base is of the utmost importance... I am a plate discipline junkie...

 

[thecrow124]

WOW!!!!!!! I almost fell into the trap again, I must remember to not disagree with a brick wall.

Etrius you miss the point of my entire arguement.

 

[Etrius24]

I saw your point crow... we just do not agree... I rate OBP and the ability to control the strike zone as the most important offensive skill.

No trap... Not trying to get you upset or start a fight... This is just how I feel about plate discipline and Grossman

OPS was Bill james first kick at the can... Total baseball called it production.. whatever you want to call it... James studied it for years and then came back and admitted that in the OPS equation OBP was severely undervalued.. by as much as 40%!

 

[thecrow124]

I guess this discussion is dead. Huntington obviously valued Marte a heck of a lot more as well.

 

[Illinest]

well there was no doubt about THAT. I was hoping it was clear that I was using Marte to call attention to Grossman when I started this thread. I am definitely pleased that we kept Marte out of the two of them. I still think it's closer than some people give credit for but that's water under the bridge now.

 

[Etrius24]

I am still in a state of shock that Grossman is not part of this organization...I already had visualized him starting in left field some point next season for the Bucs.