Mark Buehrle - HOFer?

[gunnarthor]

For his 14 yr career, he's 186-141 3.84 era (118 ERA+), 2879ip, 54.6 WAR. The era is high but he pitched in a really rough park for most of his career and in the PED era. The 118 ERA+ is really pretty good. 13 straight seasons of 200+ ip. 8 seasons of 4+ WAR (4 of 5+ WAR) and top 10 in WAR 5x. He also threw a no-hitter as well as a perfect game. And has a WS ring.

He never had a really amazing Santana-like season where he was unquestionably the best pitcher but he had a few really strong seasons. With another year, he probably breaks 3,000 innings and maybe 200 wins.

 

[steveringo]

If Schilling, Mussina, and Glavine are borderline, then Buehrle has a few miles to go before he approaches the border.

 

[StanMarsh51]

For his 14 yr career, he's 186-141 3.84 era (118 ERA+), 2879ip, 54.6 WAR. The era is high but he pitched in a really rough park for most of his career and in the PED era. The 118 ERA+ is really pretty good. 13 straight seasons of 200+ ip. 8 seasons of 4+ WAR (4 of 5+ WAR) and top 10 in WAR 5x. He also threw a no-hitter as well as a perfect game. And has a WS ring.

He never had a really amazing Santana-like season where he was unquestionably the best pitcher but he had a few really strong seasons. With another year, he probably breaks 3,000 innings and maybe 200 wins.

Just quickly looking through his year-by-year totals, he really had only 2 'great' years, with a number of above average or good seasons.

He only hit the 130 ERA+ mark 3x, and cracked the top 10 in ERA and WHIP each less than 5x. I like to see more dominance.

 

[TDs3nOut]

For his 14 yr career, he's 186-141 3.84 era (118 ERA+), 2879ip, 54.6 WAR. The era is high but he pitched in a really rough park for most of his career and in the PED era. The 118 ERA+ is really pretty good. 13 straight seasons of 200+ ip. 8 seasons of 4+ WAR (4 of 5+ WAR) and top 10 in WAR 5x. He also threw a no-hitter as well as a perfect game. And has a WS ring.

He never had a really amazing Santana-like season where he was unquestionably the best pitcher but he had a few really strong seasons. With another year, he probably breaks 3,000 innings and maybe 200 wins.

The PED era remark is interesting. Should evaluation of the accomplishments of pitchers who pitched then and who weren't linked to PEDs be adjusted upwards?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Buehrle's been very underrated for much of his career, but a HOFer he is not. He's been incredibly durable and consistent, but he's been consistently good, not great. He's had 13 consecutive seasons of 200+ innings, which is remarkable in this day and age. But he's only had a few seasons that could be considered dominant. He's a lesser version of Tom Glavine.

 

[BigDDude]

For his 14 yr career, he's 186-141 3.84 era (118 ERA+), 2879ip, 54.6 WAR. The era is high but he pitched in a really rough park for most of his career and in the PED era. The 118 ERA+ is really pretty good. 13 straight seasons of 200+ ip. 8 seasons of 4+ WAR (4 of 5+ WAR) and top 10 in WAR 5x. He also threw a no-hitter as well as a perfect game. And has a WS ring.

He never had a really amazing Santana-like season where he was unquestionably the best pitcher but he had a few really strong seasons. With another year, he probably breaks 3,000 innings and maybe 200 wins.

None chance. Zero. Book it. He has a quality place saved for him in the hall of the very good though.

 

[Tacoma_canuck]

Yeah, a very good and steady pitcher who has had a very good career. Nuff said and nothing wrong with that. Lesser version of Glavine (who is not a HOFer in my book) a good point. David Wells comes to mind too.

 

[gunnarthor]

If Schilling, Mussina, and Glavine are borderline, then Buehrle has a few miles to go before he approaches the border.

Honestly, how is Glavine borderline? In the real world, the BBWAA is going to elect him first ballot. He's a no doubt about it 300 win, 2 cy young guy.

But even his advanced stats are strong (and I've read some article that suggested WAR greatly underrated him based on his sizable difference between career FIP and era but lost that link). I think I've read a few things by stat guys that say, more or less, Glavine might be overrated but he's still a HOFer. Sure, he didn't strike out a lot of guys but he threw 4400 innings, 30th all time. (Roughly as many as Chris Carpenter and Roy Oswalt combined).

Interestingly, through their age 34 seasons, Buerhrle had amassed more WAR than Schilling. Of course, Schilling had an amazing 35-40 run.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Uh no. If he gets in we have some serious problems, HOF is for the best of the best all time. That cant be said about buehrle that he was the best even while he pitched many contemporaries were better.

 

[HammerDown]

Wow.

 

[Mondo Jay]

If Schilling, Mussina, and Glavine are borderline, then Buehrle has a few miles to go before he approaches the border.

Glavine? Borderline?

 

[StanMarsh51]

Honestly, how is Glavine borderline? In the real world, the BBWAA is going to elect him first ballot. He's a no doubt about it 300 win, 2 cy young guy.

But even his advanced stats are strong (and I've read some article that suggested WAR greatly underrated him based on his sizable difference between career FIP and era but lost that link). I think I've read a few things by stat guys that say, more or less, Glavine might be overrated but he's still a HOFer. Sure, he didn't strike out a lot of guys but he threw 4400 innings, 30th all time. (Roughly as many as Chris Carpenter and Roy Oswalt combined).

Interestingly, through their age 34 seasons, Buerhrle had amassed more WAR than Schilling. Of course, Schilling had an amazing 35-40 run.

Yea, Glavine was pretty overrated because of his win totals but he's still easily a HOFer imo.

I don't think he was any better than Mussina (who should absolutely be in), but that's another topic.

 

[da55bums]

not a chance yet, if ever

 

[broncosmitty]

He took the hit title back from Porcello this year. That has to count for something.

Three more years of consistantly decent starts and he might have a shot. Never great but always is good is a hard sell though.

 

[podsox]

I love buehrle but he's not even close imo. innings eater who always had one awesome half of the yr and one crap one. it is truly amazing the career he had with the stuff he has

 

[Howie115]

Good pitcher, great at times. But if Jack Morris isn't in with 254 wins, 3.90 ERA, 175 complete games, 4 WS rings and a WS MVP, then Buehrle isn't even close with 186 wins and 3.84 ERA.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Good pitcher, great at times. But if Jack Morris isn't in with 254 wins, 3.90 ERA, 175 complete games, 4 WS rings and a WS MVP, then Buehrle isn't even close with 186 wins and 3.84 ERA.

It's a lot closer than you think...Morris' 3.90 ERA for 1980s/early '90s standards is a lot worse than Buehrle's 3.84 for 2000s standards. Buehrle has a pretty significant lead in ERA+ (which takes the eras they played into account), although that's in about 4 seasons less of innings.

 

[steveringo]

Glavine? Borderline?

Yea, Glavine was pretty overrated because of his win totals but he's still easily a HOFer imo.

I don't think he was any better than Mussina (who should absolutely be in), but that's another topic.

There were some great debates about Glavine, Mussina & Schilling. And they all centered on if they should get in.... Since Glavine is now in, I suspect both Mussina and Schilling will be inducted soon. (Since they both have better numbers.)

 

[da55bums]

Dennis Martinez, 245 wins, 3.70 era, 1 WS ring - no HOF - Good pitcher with longevity

 

[navamind]

Good pitcher, great at times. But if Jack Morris isn't in with 254 wins, 3.90 ERA, 175 complete games, 4 WS rings and a WS MVP, then Buehrle isn't even close with 186 wins and 3.84 ERA.

Please. There's a much bigger difference between a 3.90 ERA in the 70's/80's/early 90's and a 3.84 ERA in the midst of a hitter friendly era than you'd think.

Morris was a fine pitcher (and a workhorse, especially in his era), but come on.