Series Thread: Mariners at Orioles 5/19 - 5/21

[Anointed One]

For every one trade that a guy gets traded to early, there are 10 that are traded too late.

True, what if we traded Arod, Griffey, Edgar, Felix too early? We did it with Veritek too... Same with Pineda... Pineda's tearing it up and the turd we traded for is still down in AAA... Point is, too hard to predict and it's not a given the guy you trade for will panout... Walker is going to be a stud imo... Why people are giving up on a 22 year old pitcher is surprising to me...

 

[Itsmytime]

I haven't given up on him, but I also know he isn't quite ready to be a big league pitcher.

 

[AceKeptic]

Why people are giving up on a 22 year old pitcher is surprising to me...

To be fair, he gave up on us first.

 

[cezero]

True, what if we traded Arod, Griffey, Edgar, Felix too early? We did it with Veritek too... Same with Pineda... Pineda's tearing it up and the turd we traded for is still down in AAA... Point is, too hard to predict and it's not a given the guy you trade for will panout... Walker is going to be a stud imo... Why people are giving up on a 22 year old pitcher is surprising to me...

22 or not, no other team that calls themselves a contender has a starter with 30+ innings and an ERA as low as his.

Since there's nobody to replace him with, we're stuck. It's that simple.

He's been a different pitcher since the injury, and it's a slippery slope he's on right now. If he turns things around, then great.

 

[wazzu31]

[QUOTE="Anointed One, post: 6653377, member: 8635"]True, what if we traded Arod, Griffey, Edgar, Felix too early? We did it with Veritek too... Same with Pineda... Pineda's tearing it up and the turd we traded for is still down in AAA... Point is, too hard to predict and it's not a given the guy you trade for will panout... Walker is going to be a stud imo... Why people are giving up on a 22 year old pitcher is surprising to me...[/QUOTE]

To be fair, those guys are a complete apples to oranges argument, ARod, Griffey and Felix were all big league ready before they were even eligible to be traded. The Pineda deal is a good example but I think everyone can agree that was the typical dumbass Jack type of Jack trade.

The Walker thing is just so odd, he was a top prospect, a new manager comes in and blasts him personally not just professionally, then the GM does the same and then he turned into what he has become. This is where I put blame on Lloyd, you don't WTF he is, he doesn't appear to be a player's manager with his politics but isn't close to an old school manager. The developmental department actually seem to do fine with him cause he hasn't come close to struggling like this at any stage of his career.

 

[Anointed One]

[QUOTE="Anointed One, post: 6653377, member: 8635"]True, what if we traded Arod, Griffey, Edgar, Felix too early? We did it with Veritek too... Same with Pineda... Pineda's tearing it up and the turd we traded for is still down in AAA... Point is, too hard to predict and it's not a given the guy you trade for will panout... Walker is going to be a stud imo... Why people are giving up on a 22 year old pitcher is surprising to me...

To be fair, those guys are a complete apples to oranges argument, ARod, Griffey and Felix were all big league ready before they were even eligible to be traded. The Pineda deal is a good example but I think everyone can agree that was the typical dumbass Jack type of Jack trade.

The Walker thing is just so odd, he was a top prospect, a new manager comes in and blasts him personally not just professionally, then the GM does the same and then he turned into what he has become. This is where I put blame on Lloyd, you don't WTF he is, he doesn't appear to be a player's manager with his politics but isn't close to an old school manager. The developmental department actually seem to do fine with him cause he hasn't come close to struggling like this at any stage of his career.[/QUOTE]

What if Walker turns into another Felix?

 

[Anointed One]

22 or not, no other team that calls themselves a contender has a starter with 30+ innings and an ERA as low as his.

Since there's nobody to replace him with, we're stuck. It's that simple.

He's been a different pitcher since the injury, and it's a slippery slope he's on right now. If he turns things around, then great.

I agree with everything you just said... He was a stud before this season, pitching lights out in ST... Why would we had traded him prior to the season starting? That wouldn't had made sense to me is all im saying... It's easy for someone to say, we should've traded him, after we've seen him pitch 6 games to start the regular season but before the season started, he had star written all over him... He still does... He just needs to be sent down to AAA imo to figure out his locaton... His stuff is off the charts but his location isn't very good right now..

 

[Anointed One]

To be fair, he gave up on us first.

So by that comment, you're assuming he will never be that good? I don't agree with that...

 

[Anointed One]

I haven't given up on him, but I also know he isn't quite ready to be a big league pitcher.

And that's fair... He probably should still be down in AAA... I'm assuming once Iwakuma returns, Walker will be sent down with Elias taking over his spot... Elias has been a pleasant surprise... I didn't expect him to be this good... It's unfortunate that we couldn't have gotten him better run support because he'd definitely have a few more W's... He's definitely pitched well enough to have a winning record...

 

[NWinAZ]

True, what if we traded Arod, Griffey, Edgar, Felix too early? We did it with Veritek too... Same with Pineda... Pineda's tearing it up and the turd we traded for is still down in AAA... Point is, too hard to predict and it's not a given the guy you trade for will panout... Walker is going to be a stud imo... Why people are giving up on a 22 year old pitcher is surprising to me...

I was so-so on the Pineda for Montero, but still don't regret it. We didn't to take a chance on a young bat and he was suppose to be a top one (though I always get scared when it is a Yankee can't miss prospect).

The Varitek/Lowe deal never made sense from the start. Trading for a closer by using young prospect is a fail 10 out of 10 times. Add to the fact we were not a team ready for a long term run which 1 player would put us over the top, then it was doubly bad.

Arod, Griffey, Edgar, Felix argument was explained above why that was a bad example.

Walker was a late blooming high school player (actually basketball was his best sport) and nowhere near the above mention talent level. He still might be something special or he may be one of thousands of hard throwing prospects that wash out or are moved to the pen. I mean in reality what is the difference between him and Maurer a couple years back?

I also go back to the experience of the professionals in baseball (no not Jack) which showed that no one was offering a MLB valued player for him. In fact, it took him and 3 other players to get one borderline All-Star hitter that they wanted to deal.

 

[NWinAZ]

And that's fair... He probably should still be down in AAA... I'm assuming once Iwakuma returns, Walker will be sent down with Elias taking over his spot... Elias has been a pleasant surprise... I didn't expect him to be this good... It's unfortunate that we couldn't have gotten him better run support because he'd definitely have a few more W's... He's definitely pitched well enough to have a winning record...

Unfortunately that could be a couple months away.

Who could have ever thunk that Kuma would most likely get hurt and going with 3 (basically) rookie pitchers would lead to issues?

 

[Anointed One]

Arod, Griffey, Edgar, Felix argument was explained above why that was a bad example..

Disagree... Ackley was in that same can't miss when we drafted him... Edgar wasn't predicted to be a stud by a can't miss by any stretch of the imagination... We traded Jones, another stud, can't miss... I just feel your reasoning was misleading and easy to judge after the fact...

 

[NWinAZ]

Disagree... Ackley was in that same can't miss when we drafted him... Edgar wasn't predicted to be a stud by a can't miss by any stretch of the imagination... We traded Jones, another stud, can't miss... I just feel your reasoning was misleading and easy to judge after the fact...

1- Ackley was never on the same level as any of those mentioned above and never mentioned as a 'can't miss'. He was the top hitting college player which is far from being can't miss. I have posted in the past a list of all-time hitting college players and as the list shows not very many ever amounted to much in the majors.

2- Edgar was always a hitter from the minute he woke up in the morning even in the minors. His slow path to the majors was based on question marks of his defense, their love of Jim Presley, and no vision how they could make him a DH early on just to get his bat in the lineup.

3- Jones could have stayed in Seattle and went in the direction of many flame out prospects before him. Trading Jones was not the issue. Trading Jones for a mental-midget, injury prone, 5 inning per game pitcher was the mistake. If we traded the same package for say Verlander and got 4 out of 5 All-Star seasons out of him like he had for Detroit in those same years following the Bedard trade, would we still be questioning the trade? 5 years of Felix and Verlander would have made us forget Jones in a second.

I have never been upset about trading Jones. I have always been upset on the return. Two different arguments.

 

[wazzu31]

I wasn't against trading him even if he becomes the next Felix because, the Mariners already have Felix. I'm not for just trading someone for a bag of balls like Jack likes to but when you have an ace but a below average offense it isn't horrible to trade a potential ace for offensive help. We all saw how well having historical pitching does with shatty offense last year.