Lions to look at Kickers after Akers miss and Martins Kickoffs

[Old Lion]

Shwartz is still backing them though so I doubt anything will happen. Martin has great punting stats, but sucks at kickoffs and holding on FGs. And fake FGs, LOL.

Detroit Lions stick behind David Akers, but will try out kickers next week | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

TWENTYMAN: The good and the bad from the Lions' 40-10 win over the Packers

 

[Wazmankg]

Has Martin messed up a FG hold ? I haven't seen all of every game. That fake shit sure as hell wasn't his fault. Neither was the blocked punt. Certainly they can find a guy who can make uncontested 30 yarders AND keep the kickoffs in bounds.

 

[themuzzer]

Martin is fine, Akers is not.....Bring in kickalicous.

By stats, Martin is a top 5 punter this year in regards of avg and net.......He's a asset not a problem.....Akers is a different story.....He's junk.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Since when does Martin suck at kickoffs? He's been booming most of them through the endzone.

The only problems I've seen with his kickoffs have been when the st coordinator calls for a sky corner to try to pin the return man inside the 20 (which is stupid, imo, just put it thru the endzone and make them go 80 yards).

I think we may have the most reactionary fanbase in the whole league. Win a game and we're the next Super Bowl champs. Lose the next week and we suck, fire everyone and go into firesale mode. Same with our players- it seems like the school of thought is "to hell with what he's done all season, he made some bad plays this week, so he sucks."

Like Muzzer says above here- Martin is an asset, not a problem. He's got a big leg and is great to have for kickoffs. If anyone thinks those ones he kicked out of bounds were kicks he was attempting to kick through the endzone, then they need a crash course on special teams calls- those were purposely short, high kicks designed to be fielded inside the 5 yard line. The problem comes when the return team gets enough blocks to allow the return man to let the ball hit the ground and see if it bounces out of bounds, which is exactly what happened this week. There's a lot more to an NFL kickoff than just "kick it ass hard as you can," even though that's exactly what we should be doing from here on out. Fuck the sky corners, just kick the damn ball into (or thru) the endzone and get a touchback.

At least try to be objective and asses each individual play before claiming that a guy sucks, especially such a promising rookie as Martin.

 

[Old Lion]

Read the stories from the links. He botched 2 holds on FGs and now 2 kickoffs. He also shanked a crucial 4th qtr punt against Arizona that contributed to the loss (not in articles). He has the stats because he booms a lot of punts and kickoffs. They make people overlook a ton of mistakes.

He should be fine though. His own comments were that he was an embarrassment this last game and he is going to work to fix the issue.

Maybe its you guys that need to try to be objective.

 

[themuzzer]

TP agreed with me.......I retract my statement and therefore change my mind.

 

[Old Lion]

TP agreed with me.......I retract my statement and therefore change my mind.

Only because your statement was positive about a player. According to him every one of our players is flawless.

 

[broncosmitty]

Akers Blows!!!! Mayhew seriously effed up by only offering Hanson vet minimum. (Couldn't agree more with TPauls's "reactionary" comment)

 

[themuzzer]

Read the stories from the links. He botched 2 holds on FGs and now 2 kickoffs. He also shanked a crucial 4th qtr punt against Arizona that contributed to the loss (not in articles). He has the stats because he booms a lot of punts and kickoffs. They make people overlook a ton of mistakes.

He should be fine though. His own comments were that he was an embarrassment this last game and he is going to work to fix the issue.

Maybe its you guys that need to try to be objective.

Naive.....Fine....Just grab another player off the bench to hold the snaps on FGs and Extra points.....There's probably 20 or so qualified to do it on the roster right now.....But not a damn one of them can kick a 72 yard punt like Martin has. (Thats a skill and a art) Holding the snap for a FG is not....

Hell I watched Suh hit the crossbar last year against the Jets......These guys have played football all there life....Since Suh is a DT he's probably never caught a pass or ran a route?

 

[tpaulus_2]

Only because your statement was positive about a player. According to him every one of our players is flawless.

Lol, love it when people resort to putting words in my mouth. That just means that they no longer have any valid points on their side of the argument, so the next step is to try to discredit my point of view.

Big difference between a guy sucking and being flawless. I tend to deal in reality, not hyperbole. If you really think Martin sucks at kickoffs then I don't think there's any point in me continuing to argue otherwise...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Akers Blows!!!! Mayhew seriously effed up by only offering Hanson vet minimum.

Amen brother! Worst decision of the offseason this year. Hanson is a possible HOF player, offering him the veteran minimum was an insult, imo.

Mayhew should offer him a cool million to come in and finish the season out for us...

 

[Old Lion]

Akers Blows!!!! Mayhew seriously effed up by only offering Hanson vet minimum. (Couldn't agree more with TPauls's "reactionary" comment)

I don't think Akers blows, but sure I would rather have Hanson or Kickalicious

 

[Old Lion]

Lol, love it when people resort to putting words in my mouth. That just means that they no longer have any valid points on their side of the argument, so the next step is to try to discredit my point of view.

Big difference between a guy sucking and being flawless. I tend to deal in reality, not hyperbole. If you really think Martin sucks at kickoffs then I don't think there's any point in me continuing to argue otherwise...

My reply was read the links. Try not being a douche about it for a change. Martin has made 6 critical mistakes this year already. How many punters have you heard of that made 6 critical mistakes in one year?

Maybe I should not have said he sucks at kickoffs but he made 2 critical mistakes there as well.

I have no problem with keeping him, but I am not disillusioned by his stats like the rest of you. He makes a lot of mistakes. He will need to clean it up.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Read the stories from the links. He botched 2 holds on FGs and now 2 kickoffs. He also shanked a crucial 4th qtr punt against Arizona that contributed to the loss (not in articles). He has the stats because he booms a lot of punts and kickoffs. They make people overlook a ton of mistakes.

He should be fine though. His own comments were that he was an embarrassment this last game and he is going to work to fix the issue.

Maybe its you guys that need to try to be objective.

He botched two holds, hey? I remembered the one in the season opener, because we were at the game, but couldn't think of the other. The article makes no mention of him botching another hold, so that must be something from your personal memory bank.

He's actually kicked 3 out of bounds this year, but given his huge leg and his ability to hit them through the endzone I'd chalk those up to him being a rookie who is new to kickoffs. Players, especially rookies, are going to make mistakes- it's part of the game. The key is to not to turn on them after each and every mistake, especially with rookies.

As for his "ton" of mistakes, I'm coming up with 5 big ones- 3 kicks out of bounds, the shanked punt against the Cards, and the dropped hold against Minnesota in week one. I can think of some other shanked punts, but none as costly as the Arizona game (I feel like he had a bad one against the Bungles at the end of the game, too). Basically you're doing to polar opposite of what you're accusing us of on this one- you're letting a handful of mistakes overshadow what has been a wonderful rookie season.

I wasn't looking for a fight, we usually get along just fine, but it irks me to no end when people dismiss players as "sucking/he sucks/etc..." without merit. He had a bad game kicking it off, fortunately it didn't cost us the game, or even a TD. He's also had 10 or 11 very good games kicking it off, so I feel like saying that he sucks because of the one bad one is a total over-reaction.

 

[tpaulus_2]

My reply was read the links. Try not being a douche about it for a change.

I did read the links, and I was in no way a douche. I simply disagreed with your assessment that Martin sucks on kickoffs, and I suggested that your assessment was a reaction to a bad game, rather than an objective review of his season as a whole. If your not prepared to defend your point of view, then don't go writing off our players based on one game.

Martin has made 6 critical mistakes this year already. How many punters have you heard of that made 6 critical mistakes in one year?

I don't know, because, honestly, I don't pay that much attention to what other team's punters do. You're still stretching the truth to support your argument, though. Even though the links that you keep referencing only mention one botched hold, you're still crediting him with two. Also, it's arguable as to just how critical his mistakes have been. His shanked punt against the Cards was probably the most costly, imo. The bad kicks this week made no difference in the game at all, so it's tough to call those critical, same with the botched hold against the Vikings.

Overall I think I can just as easily make the case that he's made some rookie mistakes in an otherwise stellar rookie season vs a bunch of critical mistakes that have been overshadowed by his quality punting.

Maybe I should not have said he sucks at kickoffs but he made 2 critical mistakes there as well.

In what way were they critical? They led to 3 total points, and we won the game by 30 points. Imo, they were about as critical as Bush's fumble- not mistakes anyone wants to see, but not a big deal in the long run as long as he learns from them and doesn't turn it into regular occurrence.

I have no problem with keeping him, but I am not disillusioned by his stats like the rest of you. He makes a lot of mistakes. He will need to clean it up.

I don't think we're the ones who are disillusioned. His stats speak for themselves, yet you're getting worked up over some mistakes that can be counted on a single hand. Also, we're talking about a rookie- I don't know about everyone else, but I certainly don't expect rookies to play mistake-free football.

On the whole I don't think anyone will argue that his mistakes come anywhere even remotely kind of close to outweighing the good things he does. While I agree that he needs to clean it up and learn from his mistakes he certainly does not make "a lot of mistakes" from my point of view.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on our rookie punter. I love the guy because he's the best punter we've had in a very long time and he's one of the league's best this year, despite having no NFL experience to speak of. Maybe I'm alone here, but I see a young guy who's arrow is certainly trending up.

 

[Wazmankg]

Since when does Martin suck at kickoffs? He's been booming most of them through the endzone.

The only problems I've seen with his kickoffs have been when the st coordinator calls for a sky corner to try to pin the return man inside the 20 (which is stupid, imo, just put it thru the endzone and make them go 80 yards).

I think we may have the most reactionary fanbase in the whole league. Win a game and we're the next Super Bowl champs. Lose the next week and we suck, fire everyone and go into firesale mode. Same with our players- it seems like the school of thought is "to hell with what he's done all season, he made some bad plays this week, so he sucks."

Like Muzzer says above here- Martin is an asset, not a problem. He's got a big leg and is great to have for kickoffs. If anyone thinks those ones he kicked out of bounds were kicks he was attempting to kick through the endzone, then they need a crash course on special teams calls- those were purposely short, high kicks designed to be fielded inside the 5 yard line. The problem comes when the return team gets enough blocks to allow the return man to let the ball hit the ground and see if it bounces out of bounds, which is exactly what happened this week. There's a lot more to an NFL kickoff than just "kick it ass hard as you can," even though that's exactly what we should be doing from here on out. Fuck the sky corners, just kick the damn ball into (or thru) the endzone and get a touchback.

At least try to be objective and asses each individual play before claiming that a guy sucks, especially such a promising rookie as Martin.

I'm not saying it wasn't a called play. I haven't heard anything one way or the other. But how do you know it was ? Did one of the coaches or Martin say that ? Because it seems as if one of them would have if it was a called play to take the heat off of Martin. If it was a called play it was an unbelievably idiotic and risky one considering the potential downside and the fact he has the ability to kick it through the end zone.. then to call it a second time after it failed ? The longest KR by a Packer this year is 31 yards.

 

[broncosmitty]

Amen brother! Worst decision of the offseason this year. Hanson is a possible HOF player, offering him the veteran minimum was an insult, imo.

Mayhew should offer him a cool million to come in and finish the season out for us...

Hanson was in Kalamazoo for a charity deal a few weeks. (I don't think I've mentioned this on here yet.). Did a lot of meet n great stuff.... and..... some lengthy interviews. Said all the positive things he always says. But was put in the spot with some non-fluff questions. Said he'd known for a few years he'd never play for anyone but the Lions. Said last year was his hardest on account of the pain involved from the left foot injury. AND said he would have been playing if he'd been under contract for this season. Said it was "a perfect storm" that pushed him to retire. All the therapy, rehab and time involved with getting healthy was something he COULD have done. COULD. But.... It wouldn't be easy. And after several decades of going to work everyday, work becomes work. There has to be incentive to go thru everything it takes to be ready. He paused and the guy doing the interview knew he had him and started pushing for Jay to talk about Mayhew. He just laughed and went back to talking about loving the Lions, the fans, the state of Michigan etc. interviewer knew it wasn't going to happen(JH answering honestly about the contract). And asked if he wished he was still playing. Jay skirted it a little, but said, "Yeah, I could still play. I miss it." Make a phone call Marty!

 

[Old Lion]

Like I said, I probably should not have said sucks. He obviously does not. It irks me too when people do that. They are doing it now with Akers. He missed 2 FGs that were his fault this year that's it. The problem I have with him is both those FGs were less than 40 yards. Its great to have a big leg and make 50+ yarders, but missing 2 gimmes in ideal condtions is not good. Same with making big punts and kickoffs. 6 mistakes or only 5, it is still way too many for 12 games.

 

[Wazmankg]

Naive.....Fine....Just grab another player off the bench to hold the snaps on FGs and Extra points.....There's probably 20 or so qualified to do it on the roster right now.....But not a damn one of them can kick a 72 yard punt like Martin has. (Thats a skill and a art) Holding the snap for a FG is not....

Hell I watched Suh hit the crossbar last year against the Jets......These guys have played football all there life....Since Suh is a DT he's probably never caught a pass or ran a route?

I didn't realize Martin had messed up a couple of holds. I remember well the shanked punt that basically cost us a game. I think he'll be fine though. But you vastly underestimate the difficulty of the catch, placement & hold required of the holder. It's much harder than kicking an extra point which is what Suh attempted.

 

[Old Lion]

I don't think we're the ones who are disillusioned. His stats speak for themselves, yet you're getting worked up over some mistakes that can be counted on a single hand. Also, we're talking about a rookie- I don't know about everyone else, but I certainly don't expect rookies to play mistake-free football.

I said this already on another thread as well. I will give him a pass this year because he has a lot of talent. Next year this cant still be happening or there will be a serious problem. Shwartz already blasted him during the game Thursday so he is probably on the radar now.