Lions could have the best group of RBs.

[tpaulus_2]

The drops and fumbles MORE than cancel out the positives IMO. The turnovers cost the team Ws. There's no getting around it. Same with the drops. Other than Durham, our two RBs were the least realizable pass catching options on the team. (Im not counting Scheffler since he got cut on account of not catching balls.)

 

[broncosmitty]

Im SHOCKED you don't agree.

 

[themuzzer]

Does Nate Burelsons end arounds count? If so then all Screen Passes count right? Somewhat perplexed by the question.....If you ask me if you catch a ball your a reciver regardless if you came out of the backfield......and if a WR takes a reverse or sweep, Statue of Liberty or whatever play then he's A RB on that play........Maybe they go 90 yards on a reverse.....Stats LIE!!!!!lol

 

[RobBase]

Why don't we ever discuss this?

Because Barry Sanders retired in 1999.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Im SHOCKED you don't agree.

Explain to me why it's ok for top QBs to throw a certain amount of INTs, some of which directly cost their team games, yet a RB who turns the ball over at roughly the same rate as a Brees or Brady or Rogers doesn't get the same slack?

It makes no sense, and nobody has been able to give me a solid answer to date.

Yes, the fumbles and drops suck, hurt the team, and must improve. But if Bush turns the ball over a whopping 4(!) times in 279 combined carries and receptions en route to 1,512 total yards and 7 TDs then I think that's a pretty acceptable trade-off on the whole.

Bush turned the ball over to the other team 4 times in 279 caries/receptions. That's a turnover rate of 0.014% every time he touches the ball. Concentration and ball security are definitely issues that nobody is going to argue that both Bush and Bell have to improve upon, but c'mon, let's be realistic here...

 

[themuzzer]

Explain to me why it's ok for top QBs to throw a certain amount of INTs, some of which directly cost their team games, yet a RB who turns the ball over at roughly the same rate as a Brees or Brady or Rogers doesn't get the same slack?

It makes no sense, and nobody has been able to give me a solid answer to date.

Yes, the fumbles and drops suck, hurt the team, and must improve. But if Bush turns the ball over a whopping 4(!) times in 279 combined carries and receptions en route to 1,512 total yards and 7 TDs then I think that's a pretty acceptable trade-off on the whole.

Bush turned the ball over to the other team 4 times in 279 caries/receptions. That's a turnover rate of 0.014% every time he touches the ball. Concentration and ball security are definitely issues that nobody is going to argue that both Bush and Bell have to improve upon, but c'mon, let's be realistic here...

Whether you like it or not, QB's touch the ball every play, where as a RB (most of the time by commitee) don't touch the ball anywhere near as much as a QB, therefore fumbles and dropped passed are unaccetpable.......The QB handles a snap every play and to be quite frank, that is more diffucult then catching some of these easy floaters on a swing pass that are contstantly dropped or a ball that hits you in the numbers that is dropped.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Yes, the fumbles and drops suck, hurt the team, and must improve. But if Bush turns the ball over a whopping 4(!) times in 279 combined carries and receptions en route to 1,512 total yards and 7 TDs then I think that's a pretty acceptable trade-off on the whole.

Bush led the NFL, by a large margin, for drop % for players with 50+ catches at 11.3%. He was also tied for the most fumbles by a RB with 2 other guys.

Leading those two statistics will never be an acceptable trade off.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Explain to me why it's ok for top QBs to throw a certain amount of INTs, some of which directly cost their team games, yet a RB who turns the ball over at roughly the same rate as a Brees or Brady or Rogers doesn't get the same slack?

It makes no sense, and nobody has been able to give me a solid answer to date.

Is this a real question? QB's have the ball in their hands on every play. They also have to deal with the weather when throwing the ball, human error (wrong routes, tipped passes, etc.) and many times they have to force throws late in a half or the end of the games. They also are making throws 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 yards down the field -- not having a ball handed off where you can secure it with two hands.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Bush turned the ball over to the other team 4 times in 279 caries/receptions. That's a turnover rate of 0.014% every time he touches the ball. Concentration and ball security are definitely issues that nobody is going to argue that both Bush and Bell have to improve upon, but c'mon, let's be realistic here...

He led RB's in fumbles lost (4) and dropped passes (9). I'd say people are being realistic asking for this to change.

 

[lionstop1]

Well, I think its a pretty good group regardless of the fumbles and stuff. Nobody seems to tear down CJ and some of his blunders throughout the season. Our RBs made it possible for the team to win also. Durham and those other clowns sure didn't help much.

 

[lionstop1]

Can anyone name at least 10 better groups of RBs?

 

[broncosmitty]

Explain to me why it's ok for top QBs to throw a certain amount of INTs, some of which directly cost their team games, yet a RB who turns the ball over at roughly the same rate as a Brees or Brady or Rogers doesn't get the same slack?

It makes no sense, and nobody has been able to give me a solid answer to date.

Yes, the fumbles and drops suck, hurt the team, and must improve. But if Bush turns the ball over a whopping 4(!) times in 279 combined carries and receptions en route to 1,512 total yards and 7 TDs then I think that's a pretty acceptable trade-off on the whole.

Bush turned the ball over to the other team 4 times in 279 caries/receptions. That's a turnover rate of 0.014% every time he touches the ball. Concentration and ball security are definitely issues that nobody is going to argue that both Bush and Bell have to improve upon, but c'mon, let's be realistic here...

We've been over this. You're talking to the wrong guy if you think Im okay with turnovers. Bush and Bell were very disappointing to me. Not just because the gave the ball to the opposition, but because they dropped it when it was thrown to them. More than acceptable amount. And before you ask me what that acceptable amount is, I'll just say a whole lot less than what either of them were responsible for.
(You tellin' me to be realistic is hilarious. No player fumble more last season than Stafford. No running back fumbled more than Bush. And Bell fumbled only one less time than his buddy Reggie. Fumbles, lost and recovered, shot this franchise in the foot last year more than can be overcame by YPC, total receptions, YAC or even defense. They were crippling.)

 

[lionstop1]

Smitty, would you be one of those coaches who gives certain athletes a pass when they make mistakes? Lol. I've never seen you rip some of the other players.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Bush led the NFL, by a large margin, for drop % for players with 50+ catches at 11.3%. He was also tied for the most fumbles by a RB with 2 other guys.

Leading those two statistics will never be an acceptable trade off.

Then you're living in fantasy land. Any NFL coach would laugh out loud at that statement.

Yes, he needs to improve, but he's not a guy who is known for having bad hands. Last year was his first with Stafford after spending a season with Henne and then Tannehill. Some adjustment may be required.

I'm not trying to defend his drops/fumbles at all, but you guys are blowing them out of proportion, imo. It's some that certainly needs to be addressed, as I'm sure it will be...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Is this a real question? QB's have the ball in their hands on every play. They also have to deal with the weather when throwing the ball, human error (wrong routes, tipped passes, etc.) and many times they have to force throws late in a half or the end of the games. They also are making throws 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 yards down the field -- not having a ball handed off where you can secure it with two hands.

That's twice I've heard the "every play" excuse, but, like I said, Bush turned it over at around the same rate per touch as some of the best QBs did last year. They had far more turnovers (Tom Brady fumbled 9 times), because they touch the ball every play, but if you break it down to a rate of turnovers per touch Bush isn't turning it over any more often than they are.

 

[tpaulus_2]

He led RB's in fumbles lost (4) and dropped passes (9). I'd say people are being realistic asking for this to change.

Asking for it to change is completely realistic. Saying those issues MORE than outweighed their (we're talking Bush and Bell here) positive contributions is a long ways overboard. Their statistical contributions helped win a lot more games than their fumbles and drops lost.

Still no argument from me that they need to be fixed though- I totally agree with that, a fact you seem intent on ignoring.

 

[themuzzer]

That's twice I've heard the "every play" excuse, but, like I said, Bush turned it over at around the same rate per touch as some of the best QBs did last year. They had far more turnovers (Tom Brady fumbled 9 times), because they touch the ball every play, but if you break it down to a rate of turnovers per touch Bush isn't turning it over any more often than they are.

Apples and Oranges......QBs get hit not expecting it....RBs with two hands on the ball knowing they just took a handoff know it's coming because they just took the handoff.....QB's fumble with there eyes down field or while the arm is in motion while RBs fumble running up the gut knowing they need 1 yard for a 1st down and still fumble......Maybe if it was there child they would hold it tighter..

 

[tpaulus_2]

We've been over this. You're talking to the wrong guy if you think Im okay with turnovers. Bush and Bell were very disappointing to me. Not just because the gave the ball to the opposition, but because they dropped it when it was thrown to them. More than acceptable amount. And before you ask me what that acceptable amount is, I'll just say a whole lot less than what either of them were responsible for.
(You tellin' me to be realistic is hilarious. No player fumble more last season than Stafford. No running back fumbled more than Bush. And Bell fumbled only one less time than his buddy Reggie. Fumbles, lost and recovered, shot this franchise in the foot last year more than can be overcame by YPC, total receptions, YAC or even defense. They were crippling.)

Who's talking about Stafford? Let's stick to the topic here and focus on Bell and Bush.

Their turnover per touch rate is on par with elite QBs. They both had good individual seasons that were marred by ball security issues.They need to both reduce the drops and fumbles by at least 50%. That's really about the gist of it.

 

[themuzzer]

When you take the snap, and throw the ball.....That's two touches and two chances for a turnover........You are a teacher do the math.

 

[themuzzer]

I'm a bus driver....I understand that the more miles I drive the likely hood of a accident happening increases as oppossed to a hermit that stays in his house and only leaves to get groceries.