Lincecum Wants to Stay in SF

[Mays-Fan]

You're giving them an ace, and a three time all star closer for a bunch of maybes - Can you say over pay?

Anybody that wants Timmeh also has to take Zito.

It's like Rachel and Leah.

 

[calsnowskier]

IIRC correctly, Nixon had a huge hitch in his swing. Brown's better than that. And Vince Coleman on grass? As a mid-point expectation? Maybe.

I do not think either are great comparisons. Nixon had almost zero bat, and Coleman was an epic runner. Maybe Willie McGee is a better comparison.

 

[SFGRTB]

You're giving them an ace, and a three time all star closer for a bunch of maybes - Can you say over pay?

It'd be next offseason, about $40 million is saved between the 2, and you are getting a possible replacement to Tim, a potential Hanley Ramirez, a guy who can take over for Wilson, the core (Cain/Posey/Bum/Pablo) locked up long term with enough money to sign someone in FA after Zito is gone (1 year from the hypothetical trade).

I don't think you can get much more for 2 guys 1 year away from free agency.

 

[mistgl]

It'd be next offseason, about $40 million is saved between the 2, and you are getting a possible replacement to Tim, a potential Hanley Ramirez, a guy who can take over for Wilson, the core (Cain/Posey/Bum/Pablo) locked up long term with enough money to sign someone in FA after Zito is gone (1 year from the hypothetical trade).

I don't think you can get much more for 2 guys 1 year away from free agency.

The Rangers just paid 100 million for Darvish, and have a fairly young rotation behind him. I could go on about why they won't deal any of those guys (brother is a Rangers fan), but it boils down to all of them being cheap, cost controlled, and they don't really need Tim or Wilson THAT bad to mortgage their farm/future.

 

[SFGRTB]

The Rangers just paid 100 million for Darvish, and have a fairly young rotation behind him. I could go on about why they won't deal any of those guys (brother is a Rangers fan), but it boils down to all of them being cheap, cost controlled, and they don't really need Tim or Wilson THAT bad to mortgage their farm/future.

Well you were referring to the package initially, not necessarily Texas' problems with it.

I'm just wondering if a team came around offering 2 top prospects, a young dominant arm and a solid bat, do we think the Giants would take it?

And I'm arguing that it's not an over-pay as well. I don't care what Texas thinks, this is all just hypothetical anyway.

 

[the_broom]

I saw that. They did love him; I was particularly shocked that Bowa saw him as 20-25 home-run guy someday. I hope I'm totally wrong on this, but I would not be shocked to see Brown's prospect status take a huge hit this year. There's something about his swing that I don't like - he seems vulnerable to hard stuff in and off-speed stuff away - and that ain't going to get the job done at higher levels.

Ok...I'm obviously not a scout...but isn't "hard in" and "soft away" how most pitchers go at hitters?

I've only seen Brown play in three games, so I don't have much of a sample size, but in one of those games he destroyed an inside fastball over the wall in left and in another he hammered an inside fb down the 3rd baseline.

If he has holes I am expecting him to work on this with the coaches and adjust. I believe the kid is the real deal...and as a Giants fan I am heavily invested in him being that real deal.

 

[filosofy29]

I do not think either are great comparisons. Nixon had almost zero bat, and Coleman was an epic runner. Maybe Willie McGee is a better comparison.

If he's Willie McGee, I'm stoked. Willie could hit and steal bags at a decent clip. I don't remember all that well how good his defense was in his prime though due to my youth.

 

[gp956]

I do not think either are great comparisons. Nixon had almost zero bat, and Coleman was an epic runner. Maybe Willie McGee is a better comparison.

Willie McGee's career OPS+ was 100. 3/1 K to BB ratio...... so, yes, if we're talking about Brown's ceiling, McGee is a good comparision. If Brown can hit .280 or better at Richmond I'd be pleased.

 

[gp956]

Ok...I'm obviously not a scout...but isn't "hard in" and "soft away" how most pitchers go at hitters?

I've only seen Brown play in three games, so I don't have much of a sample size, but in one of those games he destroyed an inside fastball over the wall in left and in another he hammered an inside fb down the 3rd baseline.

If he has holes I am expecting him to work on this with the coaches and adjust. I believe the kid is the real deal...and as a Giants fan I am heavily invested in him being that real deal.

There are guys if you go in on you have to go way in, otherwise they'll rake you. Jack Clark comes to mind immediately, Willie Mays was well known to love the inside high fastball ( an old-timer who faced him as a first time invitee to spring training loved to tell the story of his teammates telling him he had to pitch Mays inside and high to have any chance - and how they laughed their asses off when Mays took him deep on the second one he threw).

For Brown, I'm seeing a hole up and in. I'd pitch him up with everything. He looks like he likes to drop his hands and the barrel of the bat on the pitch down in the zone. Bottom line, I'm doubting Brown will be better than any of the players the Giants currently have at the ML level. I don't expect him to force his way into the lineup. He'll get a job eventually as a cheaper alternative to players the Giants already have. That doesn't mean I'm down on the guy.

I contrast this in what I saw in Panik. That guy has a solid swing with no obvious holes.

As a late edit: this year, observe how Freddy Sanchez handles the up and in fastball. He's always ready for it, and generally rakes it down the line. Freddy can look soft and away, and still catch up to the hard in. I don't think Brown can do this. Might be time to crank out a few heat maps for confirmation.

 

[mistgl]

Well you were referring to the package initially, not necessarily Texas' problems with it.

I'm just wondering if a team came around offering 2 top prospects, a young dominant arm and a solid bat, do we think the Giants would take it?

And I'm arguing that it's not an over-pay as well. I don't care what Texas thinks, this is all just hypothetical anyway.

I still think it's an overpay, too. Honestly, I think you're underestimating Tims trade value. Aces fetch a lot on the market, even with 1 year left on the contract at a hefty price. What you proposed is essentially what the Mets gave up for Johan, and the Phillies for Halladay, neither of which was cheap. You don't need to add Wilson, cause you could get close to that package without - IF it came with an extension window to negotiate. Demand is irrelevant, cause I promise you at least a dozen teams would be scrambling to get him on their club.

As for that deal, obviously my answer is no. If it were just Tim then yeah - maybe they take away the average outfielder, but I can live with that.

Also, I would probably prefer Holland to Martinez. Martinez has the higher ceiling as a potential 2 in the rotation, while Holland is a 3, but he's pretty what you see is what you get. You said assuming we locked up Cain, so I'd rather have the guy who went 198 innings of sub 4 era baseball in the AL, and has mid 90s velocity from the left side vs A promising prospect who's having control issues that makes Sanchez look like Maddux.

Profar
Agando
Holland

and I begrudgingly would do that trade.

 

[tzill]

Ok...I'm obviously not a scout...but isn't "hard in" and "soft away" how most pitchers go at hitters?

I've only seen Brown play in three games, so I don't have much of a sample size, but in one of those games he destroyed an inside fastball over the wall in left and in another he hammered an inside fb down the 3rd baseline.

If he has holes I am expecting him to work on this with the coaches and adjust. I believe the kid is the real deal...and as a Giants fan I am heavily invested in him being that real deal.

This was also my take, admittedly only having seen him a couple of times.

 

[filosofy29]

lol, Andrew Baggarly tweet:

Lincecum not happy w/fastball. Said his balls were at his waist and he wants them closer to the knees. I told him to wait a few decades.

 

[the_broom]

lol, Andrew Baggarly tweet:

You rock big guy...lol...!!! Rep if I can!