LeBron James

[dtgold88]

He will never be the GOAT. If he had the competitive edge, win at all cost, step on your throat attitude, which many of the all-time greats had — he’d be absolutely unstoppable.

He may get some NBA records because of longetivity and the fact he started at 18, but his chance of being the GOAT is over. Even with stacking the deck for his prime years, by handpicking his teammates — he still had a losing record in the NBA finals.

I don't completely agree with that narrative and seems like many of the negatives towards him cannot really be proven (like competitive edge, win at all costs, etc). It's funny so many have said Magic, Bird, MJ, etc would never leave and play with other stars but how do we know they wouldn't in the same situation? If the Bulls could not offer so much more than other teams you are so sure he wouldn't stick it to Kraus who he despised? Magic got his first coach fired, and why would he or Bird leave as they were each playing alongside multiple HOFers? If their best running mate was Ilgauskas no chance they'd have gone elsewhere under the current CBA?

As for the losing record in the Finals, should he have pulled an MJ and just not bothered to get to the Finals....maybe go out in round 1?

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't completely agree with that narrative and seems like many of the negatives towards him cannot really be proven (like competitive edge, win at all costs, etc). It's funny so many have said Magic, Bird, MJ, etc would never leave and play with other stars but how do we know they wouldn't in the same situation? If the Bulls could not offer so much more than other teams you are so sure he wouldn't stick it to Kraus who he despised? Magic got his first coach fired, and why would he or Bird leave as they were each playing alongside multiple HOFers? If their best running mate was Ilgauskas no chance they'd have gone elsewhere?

As for the losing record in the Finals, should he have pulled an MJ and just not bothered to get to the Finals....maybe go out in round 1?

Yeah, that's the thing with that particular narrative. If memory serves, free agency back then was a little different, plus it was relatively new. So players didn't have quite the freedom of movement then that they do now.

At the least, players really hadn't figured out how to use it like they do now.

Plus, as you point out, when you consider the teams they had around them, why would Magic or Bird leave their teams? Same with MJ.

Also, players back then weren't friends like they are now. There was no social media and AAU wasn't a thing. So, players back then just didn't have the incentive to try to join together that the they do now.

Even Magic and Bird, who became great friends, didn't like each other for several years. It wasn't until they filmed a Converse commercial together that they started becoming friends. By that time, they couldn't have joined forces if they wanted to. With the Lakers/Celtics rivalry and being the 2 best players in the game at the time, there was too much incentive not to. lol

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah, that's the thing with that particular narrative. If memory serves, free agency back then was a little different, plus it was relatively new. So players didn't have quite the freedom of movement then that they do now.

At the least, players really hadn't figured out how to use it like they do now.

Plus, as you point out, when you consider the teams they had around them, why would Magic or Bird leave their teams? Same with MJ.

Also, players back then weren't friends like they are now. There was no social media and AAU wasn't a thing. So, players back then just didn't have the incentive to try to join together that the they do now.

Even Magic and Bird, who became great friends, didn't like each other for several years. It wasn't until they filmed a Converse commercial together that they started becoming friends. By that time, they couldn't have joined forces if they wanted to. With the Lakers/Celtics rivalry and being the 2 best players in the game at the time, there was too much incentive not to. lol

Some of my numbers will be memory, but the main difference was there were no max deals back then but teams could still go over the cap to sign their own guys (but others could not). MJ also had a long deal after his rookie deal (7 years). When it ended, I believe the Bulls gave him a deal in excess of $30 mil. No one could even come close to that amount while staying competitive AND under the cap.

As for Bird/Magic, what you say is true AND there was no reason. They were already on the 2 best teams, so why leave? Though Barkley and Pippen joined what they thought would be a superteam in Houston and before that Barkley demanded a trade (and went to the Suns)

 

[Sir Robin Of Camelot]

 

[Shanemansj13]

He will never be the GOAT. If he had the competitive edge, win at all cost, step on your throat attitude, which many of the all-time greats had — he’d be absolutely unstoppable.

He may get some NBA records because of longetivity and the fact he started at 18, but his chance of being the GOAT is over. Even with stacking the deck for his prime years, by handpicking his teammates — he still had a losing record in the NBA finals.

IF you don't think he doesn't have a competitive edge you simply don't know much about basketball. He broke his hand after Game 1 bc he was upset after the teammates around him crumbled late.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Great player? Sure. Maybe the GOAT? Yep. Do as I say not as I do guy? check. Leader? Nope.

Of course he is a leader LOL

 

[dtgold88]

Of course he is a leader LOL

ending with an "lol" wont make your opinion a fact. The guy has been loafing at times ever since he came back in 2010 and never accepts responsibility.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I don't completely agree with that narrative and seems like many of the negatives towards him cannot really be proven (like competitive edge, win at all costs, etc). It's funny so many have said Magic, Bird, MJ, etc would never leave and play with other stars but how do we know they wouldn't in the same situation? If the Bulls could not offer so much more than other teams you are so sure he wouldn't stick it to Kraus who he despised? Magic got his first coach fired, and why would he or Bird leave as they were each playing alongside multiple HOFers? If their best running mate was Ilgauskas no chance they'd have gone elsewhere under the current CBA?

As for the losing record in the Finals, should he have pulled an MJ and just not bothered to get to the Finals....maybe go out in round 1?

It is a completely NBA now — Players bounce from team to team, tell their teams to trade them, and teams tank and dump salary to try and sign max contract guys to build ‘superteams’.

If you look at a guy wrong, you are whistled for a foul — where as, not to long ago, you had a team like the Pistons ruling the NBA and basically playing football out there.

I love Lebron and think he is one of the all time greats, but they did a poll a year or two back asking active GM’s — with the game on the line, one shot, who would you pick to have the ball in his hands. It had like a half dozen choices — Lebron was one of them. He received ZERO votes. Zero.
Hell — they did one last year for current NBA players and Lebron received 1 vote.

Maybe the GM’s don’t understand the game though?

 

[dtgold88]

It is a completely NBA now — Players bounce from team to team, tell their teams to trade them, and teams tank and dump salary to try and sign max contract guys to build ‘superteams’.

If you look at a guy wrong, you are whistled for a foul — where as, not to long ago, you had a team like the Pistons ruling the NBA and basically playing football out there.

I love Lebron and think he is one of the all time greats, but they did a poll a year or two back asking active GM’s — with the game on the line, one shot, who would you pick to have the ball in his hands. It had like a half dozen choices — Lebron was one of them. He received ZERO votes. Zero.
Hell — they did one last year for current NBA players and Lebron received 1 vote.

Maybe the GM’s don’t understand the game though?

Depending who else was on the list maybe they don't understand basic math and probabilities.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Depending who else was on the list maybe they don't understand basic math and probabilities.

If you are the GOAT — it wouldn’t matter who was on the list.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

IF you don't think he doesn't have a competitive edge you simply don't know much about basketball. He broke his hand after Game 1 bc he was upset after the teammates around him crumbled late.

When I say competitive edge — I mean, having the ‘it factor’. That gene many of the greats were born with where losing wasn’t an option and if they had a lead, they’d step on the throat of their own mother to keep that lead.
Lebron just doesn’t have that. He is more physically gifted than any player the NBA has seen. He disappears so many times with the game on the line. Dallas made him completely irrelevant when they played Miami in the NBA finals. He literally gave up in, I believe, his last series against Boston the first time he left Cleveland.

And while I’m sure most Cleveland fans want to think he left Miami because he wanted to come back home — he came back home because Cleveland, with Kyrie and the assets to deal for Love was the much better team for him to be one. If Cleveland hadn’t drafted Kyrie and had two other #1 picks to trade for Love — he wouldn’t have given Cleveland a 2nd thought.

If he had the same fire inside as the guy everyone considers the GOAT — he’d have surpasssd him long ago. Truth is — that isn’t something that can be taught and Lebron just doesn’t have it.

 

[tabascojet]

maybe its time for lebron to take up baseball.........playoff basketball isnt happening this year

 

[shopson67]

maybe its time for lebron to take up baseball.........playoff basketball isnt happening this year

More time to get healthy and make movies.

 

[SideSwipe52]

I would be surprised to see Bron retiring in 3 years.

 

[trojanfight]

 

[SideSwipe52]

Here is a question for you with LeBron now in the Western Conference, and not in the "Easy" Eastern Conference, has he been exposed now that he is in a difficult Western Conference? Am I reaching or is there some truth to my statement; what say you Sports SportsHoopla?

 

[tlance]

Here is a question for you with LeBron now in the Western Conference, and not in the "Easy" Eastern Conference, has he been exposed now that he is in a difficult Western Conference? Am I reaching or is there some truth to my statement; what say you Sports SportsHoopla?

No, he hasn't been exposed.

His is getting older and is no longer the best player in the league. He is also playing with a cast of misfits and has missed a lot of time.

 

[lebron23james]

Lebron is an idiot is his problem. His thinking and thought process to sign with the lakers really makes you question who is feeding him advice....

If this year was a waiting wasted year why did he sign with the lakers? He could have easily signed a 1 year with Houston or Philly and been on the top team in the league competing for a championship. He could have let LA develop their young talent and get another pick at the same time. Was he concerned LA wouldn't offer him a 4 year max contract next year? His logic is really weird, and at the same time people now in LA hate him and he managed to hurt his legacy. Overall, a major dumb decision.

I think he thought he was so great he could get any team no matter who was on it to the playoffs and possibly the finals. Turns out those players in Mia and Cle were a little bit better than he thought...and now nobody wants to play with him...

Magic must have sold him on another superstar coming this year, because otherwise he wouldn't have wanted the entire team traded this year lol

 

[lebron23james]

The current Cav roster was created by a domino effect that started when David Griffin was let go. Up until that point, they did a lot of things right. But that move was the beginning of the end for LeBron. A clear signal that Gilbert was no longer willing to make all the moves LeBron needed him to. Everything that has happened since has been a comedy of errors.

The funny thing is Gilberts moves turned out to be exactly spot on right. It was the smartest path possible for the Cavs. If you want to talk a comedy of errors, just look at the current lakers

Gilbert is smart. Magic is not. That is how business works...

Just having Lebron doesn't guarantee anything as you are clearly seeing...You mistakenly assumed that just having him means the cavs should have won more championships, and that went over like a lead ballon

 

[dtgold88]

Of course he is a leader LOL

Gotta ask....still think so?