Lacy for McCoy

[TKOSpikes]

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Oh milk. You are the one confused man. You fail to admit that the ONLY reason for your veto is YOUR opinion.

You have admitted that one good game for Lacy and one bad game for McCoy would be enough to do this deal...ONE GAME. Yet, you are vetoing without it. One game. And you don't even realize how ridiculous that sounds.

Trades have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with past performance. Sure maybe it gives us incentive to go get someone, or maybe it attracts us to a player, but you only accrue points AFTER the deal.

I don't know how to explain this any better. To use the first line out of your text book, "maybe I'm not explaining it correctly".

No, never said it would be enough to make the deal(or if I did I certainly did not mean it)... I said it would be enough for me not to veto the deal... there is a big Difference!!! When I veto I am looking for any logical reason I can see, and if that game is the last game before the trade you can MORE understand the change of mind of the players... Past performance matters, because that is the best predictor you can have!!!

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I hope I have been consistent in my arguments... I make so many, that I have no clue if I contradict myself... If I do contradict myself at any point, then you misunderstood what I said- I am never to blame!!!

 

[TKOSpikes]

So you are totally omitting the factor of prognostication....the biggest factor fantasy footballers take to chest.

Difference? Between not vetoing and doing it? Not much. I wouldn't do it either, never said I would, but my whole point is that it's not a trade to veto.....and you have admitted that one game makes the difference, and that is what i can't get my head around. If it's one game close, it's not collusion! Especially when one team played the Jags and Colts while the played IN Seattle and against the Jets...two top five run defenses

 

[TKOSpikes]

The defense rests, your Honor.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

So you are totally omitting the factor of prognostication....the biggest factor fantasy footballers take to chest.

Difference? Between not vetoing and doing it? Not much. I wouldn't do it either, never said I would, but my whole point is that it's not a trade to veto.....and you have admitted that one game makes the difference, and that is what i can't get my head around. If it's one game close, it's not collusion! Especially when one team played the Jags and Colts while the played IN Seattle and against the Jets...two top five run defenses

I don't omit prognostication. I look for the reason of a prognostication. Predicting future with no basis, is hard for me to believe. With your logic you can defend any trade no matter how obviously collusion it is.

I trade lesean McCoy for James Starks.

Well, lacy had his concussion already this season, concussions recur. So I predict that lacy doesn't play more than 2 more games. I am worried about the Darren sproles factor and believe that McCoy is going to have a worse season than James Starks. So I predict Starks will be better than McCoy
- now you can't veto it because I claim it is my prediction and what I think!!!

My point is you can make any trade sound logical. So if you are going to veto a trade you have to base it on your own logic and assumptions. Because as tlance said you can't know what the other person is actually thinking.

And I just don't see any logical reason for this trade except for that the McCoy pick was after the lacy pick or the McCoy pick was an auto pick.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

The defense rests, your Honor.

I wonder if we have a Judge on this board( Besides Judge Fudge), who can grade us on our debating skills...

 

[TKOSpikes]

That one doesn't even need a rebuttal your Honor.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

That one doesn't even need a rebuttal your Honor.

Can you at least defend your reasoning on why it doesn't need a rebuttal??

 

[TKOSpikes]

My defense has rested. The logic of 1st round pick for 1st round pick vs 1st round pick for hand cuff/waiver claim and injury prediction is obvious. No you can certainly not justify any trade, but there's no way in hello you can veto a trade involving two 1st rounders. Period.

The real question is how do you defend your reasoning that you are basing your argument on TWO GAMES where one player played two terrible defenses and one player played two great defenses. Then admitting you'd switch your vote if Lacy and Sproles have big games and McCoy does not. It is outrageous.

It's like saying you would veto Dez for AJ Green. Ridiculous. oh shit, I didn't just start domething else did I.

 

[Chef99]

My defense has rested. The logic of 1st round pick for 1st round pick vs 1st round pick for hand cuff/waiver claim and injury prediction is obvious. No you can certainly not justify any trade, but there's no way in hello you can veto a trade involving two 1st rounders. Period.

The real question is how do you defend your reasoning that you are basing your argument on TWO GAMES where one player played two terrible defenses and one player played two great defenses. Then admitting you'd switch your vote if Lacy and Sproles have big games and McCoy does not. It is outrageous.

It's like saying you would veto Dez for AJ Green. Ridiculous. oh shit, I didn't just start domething else did I.

Holy Crap!

You just cut to the chase. Even better, you were logical.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

My defense has rested. The logic of 1st round pick for 1st round pick vs 1st round pick for hand cuff/waiver claim and injury prediction is obvious. No you can certainly not justify any trade, but there's no way in hello you can veto a trade involving two 1st rounders. Period.

The real question is how do you defend your reasoning that you are basing your argument on TWO GAMES where one player played two terrible defenses and one player played two great defenses. Then admitting you'd switch your vote if Lacy and Sproles have big games and McCoy does not. It is outrageous.

It's like saying you would veto Dez for AJ Green. Ridiculous. oh shit, I didn't just start domething else did I.

who was drafted first in the league?? If it was Dez Bryant then yes I would probably veto it at this point using my logic...

And I am not basing it on only 2 games!!! I am not asking whether an owner changed his mind I am asking when the owner changed his mind...

If you draft McCoy over lacy, then you think McCoy is better than lacy(or at least better value), If a player has not shown any reason for you to think that he will be better than the other player then why would you think that...

And the fact that They play the same position may be the biggest factor!!! and it is not like this is baseball where you may want to trade for a specific stat... I haven't seen fantasy football go by categories maybe ever...

So, if preseason you think player A is better, and Player A is having a better season than Player B then when did you change your mind??

its the progression that makes no sense, not the 2 games...

Dez Bryant for AJ green... If preseason you think Dez Bryant is better, and so far this season Dez Bryant has been Better, and AJ green is coming off of an injury that he missed a whole game already, how can you defend your change of mind and when was it??

Then lets add the fact that these 2 owners are in a relationship(the point here is that there is no chance that the trade sat on the PENDING table)... so that means the trade would be accepted almost immediately after proposal... that is a factor, because what that tells me is that the change of mind was after the Week 2 games!!! I am Sherlock Holmes here...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Holy Crap!

You just cut to the chase. Even better, you were logical.

he is being logical... I give him credit for prolonging my entertainment...

 

[TKOSpikes]

But you've said if you picked Lacy you would trade him for Lynch. That is the total opposite of what you're saying. Anyway, I've already rested my case, now I'm leaving the courtroom.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

But you've said if you picked Lacy you would trade him for Lynch. That is the total opposite of what you're saying. Anyway, I've already rested my case, now I'm leaving the courtroom.

How is that the opposite of what I said?? I just don't follow what you think I have said to think that that is the opposite...

Lynch has been better this season, so there is enough reason to see why someone would change their mind on those 2 players...

 

[TKOSpikes]

Wow milk. You had Lacy ahead of Lynch preseason. But after a good game from Lynch and a second game which consisted of 6 carries and 20-some yards but he luckily fell in the end zone on a 10 yard swing pass you can change your mind. Meanwhile Lacy plays Hawks and Jets but that doesn't matter. And to top it off you'd change your mind on one more game. Your whole theme is out of whack.

 

[tometom]

did the OP ever say what happened with this trade? Did it get veto'd or approved?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Wow milk. You had Lacy ahead of Lynch preseason. But after a good game from Lynch and a second game which consisted of 6 carries and 20-some yards but he luckily fell in the end zone on a 10 yard swing pass you can change your mind. Meanwhile Lacy plays Hawks and Jets but that doesn't matter. And to top it off you'd change your mind on one more game. Your whole theme is out of whack.

Did I say I would make the trade myself, or just Not Veto it?? THought I said would not veto it...

But truth be told I would probably agree to that trade anyway... THe only reason I had lynch so low is because I didn't like the hold out talks... Before that I had him and forte in my top 5 with the top 3 being McCoy, Charles and Peterson(boy does that top 3 look weird now)... But again that is irrelevant...

Lets forget the names of the players, because I really haven't needed them nor the rounds they were picked...

All I care about to veto or not to veto is these questions...

1. Who was Picked first at draft time
2. Who has the better season so far- is it close??
3. Do they play the same position
4. Was there a moment for a logical mind change
5. Did the timing of the trade resemble that MOMENT??
6. Do you believe the "loser" shopped around first??

Now lets bring back the 2 players in question(Lacy and McCoy)
1. McCoy(back with my original assumption and was not autodrafted)
2. McCoy- No
3. Yes
4. No logical time during the season to think Lacy would be better than McCoy(IMO)
5. No
6. No(I have shown why I believe this)


My 3 most bothersome points that make me think that this is collusion is

1. The 2 players play the same position
2. The player perceived to be better is having the better season
3. I don't believe there was any shopping around

If so worried about the sproles affect why wait until after week 2?? and why go for a player whose current value is worse than his preseason value in a one for one trade?? And I would be ok if the trade was McCoy for (Jimmy Graham or Calvin Johnson, or Peyton Manning)

 

[MilkSpiller22]

did the OP ever say what happened with this trade? Did it get veto'd or approved?

Well to be fair I ran with this thread making assumptions about all the details of this trade... Stomp stopped posting after page one and never really gave us any information about this deal besides that the 2 owners were a couple...

 

[TKOSpikes]

1. Doesn't matter (Charles had a dud week 1, anyone could have bailed on him then, and say traded him for Lynch)
2. Really doesn't matter (the better season? LMAO, agsin the opponent factor after 2 GAMES is very real)
3. Really, really doesn't matter (huh? you just said you wouldn't veto Lacy for Lynch)
4. Who's mind? Because the only minds that matter are the traders. (12 teams, 12 minds)
5. Closest to being something to argue over....but not veto. (goes to me not doing this deal either, but who am I to say?)
6. Up to the trader, not you! (makes NO SENSE...if he wants Lacy, doesn't mean he'd take Forte or Foster and Marshall)


1. I know you'll say "but McCoy didn't have a dud in week 1 and Lacy did". Not the point, just arguing the first question as it is written.
2. You say this matters, but I know you're a better FEB player than that. Otherwise, Sproles would be considered elite right now... (maybe you do feel that)
3. You can't argue this logically.
4. Like I said, in this scenario, we would both argue for McCoy, but it doesn't give us the right to veto a deal if someone else thinks otherwise. Especially when the lesser player IS STILL A FIRST ROUNDER!!!
5. Arguable yes, but again, totally irrelevant to the future. Maybe he asked for Lacy and Watkins and buddy rejected...but again, doesn't matter.
6. How you think this matters is beyond me.