Ken Holland: The most overrated gm in the NHL

[Phantomphan]

Haha I made this argument before FN collapsed and spent a day arguing with people who still think he's a genius and plucking superstars from obscure corners of the world. Good to see there are some folks who can remove the red-tinted goggles for a minute and ask aloud how a team can spend $16 million a year on Howard, Weiss, Quincey and Cleary.

Judging by the success the Red Wings have had over the last several years, I wouldn't have minded him as the GM in Philly.

 

[Abe Vigoda]

Judging by the success the Red Wings have had over the last several years, I wouldn't have minded him as the GM in Philly.

Who? Brian Burke?

 

[RP-29]

Thanks, Canuck.

 

[HUBSTER]

Judging by the success the Red Wings have had over the last several years, I wouldn't have minded him as the GM in Philly.

I don't think he'd be out of work for long if the Wings decided to go in a different direction.

 

[Phantomphan]

Who? Brian Burke?

Well, not Glen Sather.

 

[Abe Vigoda]

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Truth.

And I admit I had been one of those loyal fans defending him, but this Cleary signing is indefensible. My only hope is Jurco has a monster camp and preseason and forces Babcock and Holland to plant Cleary's ass in the pressbox until the inevitable injury opens a spot for him on the ice.

And if anyone wants to see some real venom towards Holland by Red Wings fans, peruse the comments sections of Detroit Red Wings Hockey - MLive.com articles. If this was the 1600's Holland would've been put to death by now.

Heard you were comin around. Welcome aboard, sir.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I don't think anybody disagreed with you Danny. They just didn't want to admit you're right.

I'm always right. Just wait until the Leafs hoist the Cup next summer and parade it down Yonge St!

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I don't think he'd be out of work for long if the Wings decided to go in a different direction.

Nor do I. Sometimes things just need to be shaken up. I think the Devils could probably have done without Lou for a few years now. It's actually incredible how that team can still compete for playoff spots with some of the decisions that have been made the past few years.

 

[RP-29]

Heard you were comin around. Welcome aboard, sir.

Thanks, man.

 

[Canuck eh?]

I'm always right. Just wait until the Leafs hoist the Cup next summer and parade it down Yonge St!

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[sherbert1421]

I dunno, I think it's Holland's fault - he's the one who signed these older guys(Cleary, Bert, Samuelsson) and Babcock keeps asking for a righty on defense and Holland never does it

I mean, Babcock was benching the older guys and was playing the younger guys during the season, he can't be the problem - and he also made it clear that he loves coaching the younger players because they are playing with more to prove

babcock was the one who pushed holland into signing him again last season. Babcock was the one who continued to put cleary on the powerplay. 50 minutes of powerplay time last season and not a single point. that is unheard of

the only reason cleary got benched is because he injured his knee

useless. no team in their right mind would ever want cleary

Truth.

And I admit I had been one of those loyal fans defending him, but this Cleary signing is indefensible. My only hope is Jurco has a monster camp and preseason and forces Babcock and Holland to plant Cleary's ass in the pressbox until the inevitable injury opens a spot for him on the ice.

And if anyone wants to see some real venom towards Holland by Red Wings fans, peruse the comments sections of Detroit Red Wings Hockey - MLive.com articles. If this was the 1600's Holland would've been put to death by now.

these are also good

[Signed] Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses - General Discussion - LetsGoWings.com Forums

Confirmed with Link: Daniel Cleary (1 year, $1.5 million) - HFBoards

Judging by the success the Red Wings have had over the last several years, I wouldn't have minded him as the GM in Philly.

he was good prior to 2009. After choosing to extend franzen longterm instead hossa, he's been in a downward spiral since. most of the top free agents don't care about loyalty if your team is not a cup contenders as evident by this offseason.

another big issue is holland's refusal to give up any prospects in trades to improve glaring weaknesses. he has built up a logjam of good prospects and there's not going to be room for them all down the road anyways. Holland has continually been on the record as saying he is not willing to give up any of tatar,jurco,mantha, or nyquist in trades. If you want to get that top 4 right handed defenseman, you are going to have to give up one of those players.

I think the wings have a 3 year window to make a serious push for the cup while zetterberg and datsyuk are still elite players. but with holland's refusal to improve the team, those 3 years are going to be stuck in 1st round playoff exits

 

[sherbert1421]

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

 

[dash]

Clearly that's a nice bonus clause for Dan...

 

[jstewismybastardson]

after game 9, holland will send him to the senior league

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I'm always right. Just wait until the Leafs hoist the Cup next summer and parade it down Yonge St!

Here's hoping for a Rob Ford re-election this fall then.

The potential to watch a cracked out Rob Ford walking down Yonge Street in a Cup parade is almost enough to make me hope the Leafs could win.

Almost.

OK, not really.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

after game 9, holland will send him to the senior league

I thought the Red Wings were the senior league?

 

[RP-29]

but with holland's refusal to improve the team, those 3 years are going to be stuck in 1st round playoff exits

Although I mostly agree with you, I think "refusal" is the wrong word to use. He has been swinging, but he just keeps striking out. Losing out on both Parise and Suter after Lidstrom retired got the snowball rolling and now free agents simply don't see the Red Wings as an ideal destination anymore.

The way to eliminate that perception is to have a top-4 season and playoff success. This can still happen if the team stays healthy and the young guys take over.

I like that Holland shows loyalty to his players and is a man of his word, but it's a detriment to the future of the franchise when that loyalty results in constantly retaining old anchors that have no chance of progressing the team. Thus, the Holland venom.

Frankly, I wish these spoiled fans who want to murder Holland would be more respectful. He's still a good guy and he's still done a decent job keeping the franchise running pretty well under difficult circumstances.

 

[pixburgher66]

babcock was the one who pushed holland into signing him again last season. Babcock was the one who continued to put cleary on the powerplay. 50 minutes of powerplay time last season and not a single point. that is unheard of

the only reason cleary got benched is because he injured his knee



useless. no team in their right mind would ever want cleary



these are also good

[Signed] Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses - General Discussion - LetsGoWings.com Forums

Confirmed with Link: Daniel Cleary (1 year, $1.5 million) - HFBoards




he was good prior to 2009. After choosing to extend franzen longterm instead hossa, he's been in a downward spiral since. most of the top free agents don't care about loyalty if your team is not a cup contenders as evident by this offseason.

another big issue is holland's refusal to give up any prospects in trades to improve glaring weaknesses. he has built up a logjam of good prospects and there's not going to be room for them all down the road anyways. Holland has continually been on the record as saying he is not willing to give up any of tatar,jurco,mantha, or nyquist in trades. If you want to get that top 4 right handed defenseman, you are going to have to give up one of those players.

I think the wings have a 3 year window to make a serious push for the cup while zetterberg and datsyuk are still elite players. but with holland's refusal to improve the team, those 3 years are going to be stuck in 1st round playoff exits

Hmmmm...I feel like maybe there's a certain western PA hockey team that may match up here. Paul Martin, how do you feel about that?