Kelvin Benjamin

[dredinis21]

Baalke missed on ward but its ok because he knocked out of the park with the other picks. I wish we took a WR instead of Ward. Ward still has a shot but he needs a nice year next year.

So this conclusion after, what, like 5 games as a rookie NB who played primarily S in college at the football equivalent of a mid-major? This kid showed a ton a speed, tended to bite on double moves this season, but has been considered a film junkie both in college and from Fangio, who doesn't pull punches. The fact that he has embraced the mental aspect of this game leads me to reserve my judgement of this rookie until a few years have passed.

 

[Pattersonca65]

So this conclusion after, what, like 5 games as a rookie NB who played primarily S in college at the football equivalent of a mid-major? This kid showed a ton a speed, tended to bite on double moves this season, but has been considered a film junkie both in college and from Fangio, who doesn't pull punches. The fact that he has embraced the mental aspect of this game leads me to reserve my judgement of this rookie until a few years have passed.

I am not ready to give up on Ward either. He struggled early in the season and then got hurt. Not sure he was ever right this season. Still just a rookie. I am actually pretty high on the cornerbacks that were drafted. Johnson, Acker, and Reaser. They looked good when they did play. We will see moving forward.

 

[Kinzu]

WR has been a big weakness since Harbaugh has been HC. Have not developed a goid reliable WR during his tenure. Lets see if the new regime can do anything wirh Patton or Ellington

Since Harbaugh has been HC????
Try since Nolan became the coach lol heck I'd say they improved slightly with Harbaugh. At least Boldin at the age of like 60 or something can still make real NFL receiver like catches.

 

[optimist4720]

There's so many rookie WRs doing well this year and it sucks we didn't grab one of them.
(Beckham Jr., Benjamin, Jordan Mathews... did you guys see Davante Adams today for the Packers?).


We need to steal someone from the Packers scouting team to scout WRs. They seem to nail it on WRs and have a steady flow of them up and coming and they let the vets walk.

Jennings and James Jones walked, they got Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb
Then now they got Adams and Boykin in the queue. And they groom them properly too.

Yes so sad we took the quick but small guy who does nothing for us in matchups in the red zone and doesn't matchup well with our nemisus Seattle.

 

[optimist4720]

Note to Baalke...draft a big fast WR some day with good hands someday...Ajenkins,Patton,and Ellington are NOT the prototype in matchup problems with Seattle! Note mistakes passing on Benjamin and A.Jeffries, Mathhews, etal ad naseum. Can you please apply more than a bandaid to this problem of a lack of speed and size to our receiver corps? I know josh Gordon is a head case potty smoker and doesn't fit the classy mode but might we trade for him if the browns are cleaning house?.?? Might get him for a song and a few tuppins?

 

[purguy12]

Last draft was a home run. We need another one this year.

 

[deep9er]

So Deep, what did your EYES tell you about his play? Explain to me explicitly what would make you think he didn't play well given his circumstances. And don't refer to articles in defense, refer to something that you personally saw, anecdotal or otherwise. Is it a coincidence that inside pressure stopped happening almost entirely once he was inserted into the lineup? Kilgore was a turnstile in run blocking and regularly got pushed back into the pocket like he was on skates when pass protecting. Martin was a significant upgrade and that was without knowing shit in terms of line calls. Knowing your line calls and playing well are two different things. Would it help you if I took the VERY out and simply say he played well?

Kilgore wasn't 'studly', but it got worse when Martin went in. there was definitely more inside pressure when Martin went in, so he was NOT a significant upgrade last season.

ok, so two different things......he didn't play well individually, and he didn't get line calls right. As i said earlier, this part on line calls is something I read.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Since Harbaugh has been HC????
Try since Nolan became the coach lol heck I'd say they improved slightly with Harbaugh. At least Boldin at the age of like 60 or something can still make real NFL receiver like catches.

LOL, Those teams were so irrelevant it wasn't worth going back that far

 

[Pattersonca65]

Last draft was a home run. We need another one this year.

I am not ready to call last year's draft a home run yet.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Note to Baalke...draft a big fast WR some day with good hands someday...Ajenkins,Patton,and Ellington are NOT the prototype in matchup problems with Seattle! Note mistakes passing on Benjamin and A.Jeffries, Mathhews, etal ad naseum. Can you please apply more than a bandaid to this problem of a lack of speed and size to our receiver corps? I know josh Gordon is a head case potty smoker and doesn't fit the classy mode but might we trade for him if the browns are cleaning house?.?? Might get him for a song and a few tuppins?

Not sure I would go for Josh Gordon unless it is a low draft pick. People make mistakes and deserve a second chance. I would question whether Josh Gordon is learning from his mistakes as he seems to keep popping up in news with some sort of trouble

 

[Crimsoncrew]

You cant develop what you don't draft... We have under drafted/poorly drafted WR/TE for some time. Even VD is not a typical TE size wise. Wr poor 49ers need to upgrade both positions and unfortunately it might be a multi year proposition.

This is a real chicken or egg situation. Is it Baalke's lack of an eye in terms of adding receiving talents, the coaching staff's struggles to develop and utilize guys, or a combination of the two? I lean toward the last, but there are a few things that make me question the coaching staff.

First and foremost, and I've harped on this a lot, teams constantly get production out of late-round or UDFA players at the WR position. Almost ever NFL team over the past two or three years has done so. Last year I did a detailed analysis of the entire NFC, and the Panthers were really the only team that hadn't developed one of these guys - other than us, of course. Given the opportunities that were available, particularly in 2013, it's just inexcusable to me that the staff was not able to get some production out of the second/third receiver spot. Instead, all WRs not named Boldin and Crabtree (who missed most of the season) combined for 283 yards and no TDs. That's six players putting up what would be mediocre numbers for a fourth receiver, despite one of those guys (variable depending on the week) starting much of the season. A coaching staff has to do more.

Second, I was thinking the just yesterday about Delanie Walker. Here's a guy who was basically an afterthought in our offense, at least in terms of the passing game. We used him primarily as a blocker. He never caught more than 30 balls despite getting quite a lot of playing time. This past year, he was 4th in the league in receiving yards among TEs, and 3rd in YPG. He had nearly three times as many yards as his last with the Niners. Ted Ginn was also drastically underutilized before succeeding with Carolina - who, as noted above, aren't exactly Einstein when it comes to getting production out of WRs. I'm not a big fan of Ginn's as a receiver, but his one skill is the one thing we desperately needed, and we never used him.

The Niners have treated WR basically the way they've treated DL lately in terms of draft picks. The difference is they've actually gotten production out of a number of afterthought DL, while the cupboard at WR is basically bare.

 

[Uhsplit]

He was awesome tonight against the Seahawks.

Caught 2 TDs, and almost caught a 3rd in between those two over top of Richard Sherman but his foot stepped out of the end zone. Jumped up right over Sherman who had no chance.

Can't think of the last time a WR had 2 TD catches against the recent Seahawks? (almost 3?)

I wish we would have drafted him. He could have been our possession / end zone receiver, grooming behind Boldin.

The 2 TD's came against our backup CB as Byron Maxwell was out with an illness. Simon was picked on all game giving up 10 catches on 10 targets. BTW, Sherm was in position to defend Benji on the play you refer to. To avoid an INT, the QB had to sail the ball high causing KB to catch it out of bounds.
I do agree that Benjamin has a place in this league.

 

[purguy12]

seattle's 1st challenge this week. Lets see what happens. I do think Rogers can be in trouble if they get pressure on him because he can't run.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Yes so sad we took the quick but small guy who does nothing for us in matchups in the red zone and doesn't matchup well with our nemisus Seattle.

Small guys can be quite effective in the red zone. This year, Antonio Brown had eight red zone TDs, Randall Cobb had 10, Odell Beckham had eight, Mike Wallace had nine. Those all match or surpass what Dez Bryant produced this year. And as far as Seattle, the guy who has given them the most trouble in recent history is T.Y. Hilton. They can match up with size, but they can struggle with speed and quickness. Finally, Bruce Ellington's red zone TDs in college actually matched up quite well with a lot of bigger guys.

All things being equal, I'd love to get the big, fast guy with great hands. But I'll take the better player even if he's small. I would have liked adding Moncrief or Matthews this year, but I don't think it's outrageous that we didn't get one of them. We had three borderline #1 guys at the start of the year, a pro bowl TE, and tremendous depth at RB going into the season. CB was a much bigger need on draft day.

 

[optimist4720]

This is a real chicken or egg situation. Is it Baalke's lack of an eye in terms of adding receiving talents, the coaching staff's struggles to develop and utilize guys, or a combination of the two? I lean toward the last, but there are a few things that make me question the coaching staff.

First and foremost, and I've harped on this a lot, teams constantly get production out of late-round or UDFA players at the WR position. Almost ever NFL team over the past two or three years has done so. Last year I did a detailed analysis of the entire NFC, and the Panthers were really the only team that hadn't developed one of these guys - other than us, of course. Given the opportunities that were available, particularly in 2013, it's just inexcusable to me that the staff was not able to get some production out of the second/third receiver spot. Instead, all WRs not named Boldin and Crabtree (who missed most of the season) combined for 283 yards and no TDs. That's six players putting up what would be mediocre numbers for a fourth receiver, despite one of those guys (variable depending on the week) starting much of the season. A coaching staff has to do more.

Second, I was thinking the just yesterday about Delanie Walker. Here's a guy who was basically an afterthought in our offense, at least in terms of the passing game. We used him primarily as a blocker. He never caught more than 30 balls despite getting quite a lot of playing time. This past year, he was 4th in the league in receiving yards among TEs, and 3rd in YPG. He had nearly three times as many yards as his last with the Niners. Ted Ginn was also drastically underutilized before succeeding with Carolina - who, as noted above, aren't exactly Einstein when it comes to getting production out of WRs. I'm not a big fan of Ginn's as a receiver, but his one skill is the one thing we desperately needed, and we never used him.

The Niners have treated WR basically the way they've treated DL lately in terms of draft picks. The difference is they've actually gotten production out of a number of afterthought DL, while the cupboard at WR is basically bare.

I'm hearing you load and clear...great insight on the problem..seems your conclusion is that we need to get a whole lot better at development of the WR position both in training and using what we have and drafting better and more candidates. Felt the same way about Ginn,didn't know about walker though since he left vs when he was here. Who do you want us to hire as HC? And why? Respectfully asking

 

[Robotech]

I'm hearing you load and clear...great insight on the problem..seems your conclusion is that we need to get a whole lot better at development of the WR position both in training and using what we have and drafting better and more candidates. Felt the same way about Ginn,didn't know about walker though since he left vs when he was here. Who do you want us to hire as HC? And why? Respectfully asking

I really liked Delanie Walker when he was a Niner. The dude seemed like he was always open.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I'm hearing you load and clear...great insight on the problem..seems your conclusion is that we need to get a whole lot better at development of the WR position both in training and using what we have and drafting better and more candidates. Felt the same way about Ginn,didn't know about walker though since he left vs when he was here. Who do you want us to hire as HC? And why? Respectfully asking

Honestly, I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other on the HC opening. I just don't know enough about other teams and particularly some of the lower level guys for those teams. I'm better addressing what I like and don't like about specific candidates than putting forth my own recommendations. I will say that I think the biggest questions facing this team in the near future are on offense, so I suppose I lean that way, but as long as a defensive HC brought in a good staff, a la Belichick in NE, I would be fine with that.

I think Gase is interesting in terms of a young up-and-comer who could potentially be in the position for many years, but I have reservations in that it doesn't appear Elway is interested. I do think the Niners have put themselves in a really tough situation. The pressure is on the FO to get this right given the way Harbaugh's tenure came to an end, and how they have handled the aftermath. They have not appeared as prepared as I would have expected to date.

 

[optimist4720]

Feeling very similarly about Harbs and his departure. Ironic that The way it was handled lacked the "classy" element that York claimed he sought for the team,but though Harbs comment were very classy, hence the irony... Just hoping York isn't just getting all cheapo on us since even Ryan deal suggests "buy in" will be north of 5m+ for a guy with experience. Just heard rumor of Fangio might approve of a Shanny Sr HC scenario which implies Shanny Jr too + Fangio staying on as DC. Which looks to hit on so many prerequsites of experience+ prior success+ Qb guru mentor/teacher upgrade path for future + defensive cohesiveness continuity that we all wish. Kind of a best of dreams convergence after the messy storm of change that is wreaking havoc on our fan base. Might be costly but talent and quality costs money,so if one is really in it to win.pay the piper and get it done.....think too long get it wrong...

 

[Pattersonca65]

How did this thread get hijacked into another head coach thread?