KC 4yrs 82 mil ?

[gkekoa]

Shark gets my point.

You don't have to collude to make this happen though. Organizations simply need to realize the ilk of Tannehill, Stafford, and Rivers can be offset by having better players at other positions. If you are paying these guys 20 million, you will never win a SB.

 

[Sharkinva]

OH I get your point. I just think your concept is unrealistic. Because the concept of over paying assumes that there is a set market for a limited talent pool to begin with. As some one else mentioned. if there were more than 32 QB's worthy of a starting job, then you might be able to set a market. But because the reality is that there are only about 15 QBs worthy of starting at any given time, the market value of a starter will never level off.

 

[Breed]

My point is, the Cap is no longer the big bad monster that will hamper a team and leave a team to the point where they can not field a team.

That, the cap being a big bad monster thing in the past, is as much a myth, at least for the Skins, as anything else. Hell, the only time the cap really hurt the Skins is when they did exactly what the NFL said they could do and Mara gave em the high hard one. I can recall fans of other teams telling fans of other teams how they'd be in cap hell next year. I don't recall any NFL team ever fielding less than a 53 man roster because they fucked off their cap.

So Im over worrying about saving these billionaires a few dollars. And the reality is, any contract guy worth his salt can make the signings his team needs without fear of it hindering the team in the future. Gone are the days where a team does a deal that puts them over the cap for the forseeable future.

I'm not worried about any billionaire's money either per se. I just find it to be some bullshit that a QB can show flashes of potential here and there, but basically be below average for 3.5 years. Then said QB can ball out for the next 8 weeks or so. Or right when a very fast, will always be diminutive and is sometimes hard-headed at the worst times WR. Once again becomes a regular, every game from here on out presence in the starting line up.

I don't recall any Djax should be paid 10 mill a year threads. I do recall a few Cuz should or could get 12 mill, 16 mill, maybe even 20 mill a year threads.

Did Green Bay really depend on Jordy's mere presence so much that him being unable to play last year. Is what eventually caught up to GB and Rodgers and why they didn't look quite right for much of the season?

 

[gkekoa]

OH I get your point. I just think your concept is unrealistic. Because the concept of over paying assumes that there is a set market for a limited talent pool to begin with. As some one else mentioned. if there were more than 32 QB's worthy of a starting job, then you might be able to set a market. But because the reality is that there are only about 15 QBs worthy of starting at any given time, the market value of a starter will never level off.

We will see in time. Let me ask you this then...

Would you rather Ryan Tannehill throwing to Ted Ginn as a number one

Or

Would you rather have Josh McCown throwing to Alshon Jeffery?

 

[Sharkinva]

We will see in time. Let me ask you this then...

Would you rather Ryan Tannehill throwing to Ted Ginn as a number one

Or

Would you rather have Josh McCown throwing to Alshon Jeffery?

I would rather have Tannehill throwing to Jeffery if I had my way. McCown has hit his ceiling. I dont think Tannehill or for that matter Cousins has. And there is no future in a 37 year old QB.

 

[Sharkinva]

So let me ask, would you rather pay $5 million a year for a guy who is most likely on the decline and a place holder at best.

Or $17 million for a guy who has shown improvement and might actually have a future with the team three years from now??

 

[gkekoa]

I would rather have Tannehill throwing to Jeffery if I had my way. McCown has hit his ceiling. I dont think Tannehill or for that matter Cousins has. And there is no future in a 37 year old QB.

Of course you would...the problem Miami cannot afford Jeffery. And my point remains...when you overpay a QB, you weaken the rest of your team. There are five QBs that deserve that kind of money and one decided to play for 9 million because he understands other positions need strength.

 

[gkekoa]

So let me ask, would you rather pay $5 million a year for a guy who is most likely on the decline and a place holder at best.

Or $17 million for a guy who has shown improvement and might actually have a future with the team three years from now??

Honestly, I would pay the place holder and build a helluva team while grooming my QB of the future. Unless I find the next Brady or Manning, I would not pay him the going rate until he has actually earned it.

 

[Sharkinva]

Of course you would...the problem Miami cannot afford Jeffery. And my point remains...when you overpay a QB, you weaken the rest of your team. There are five QBs that deserve that kind of money and one decided to play for 9 million because he understands other positions need strength.

Explain to me why Miami cant afford Jeffery?? Even WITH the $2.5 million that they are over the cap, if they wanted him, they could sign him. And to be honest, Tannehills deal wouldnt be the reason they are over the cap in any case.

You need to get over the old way of thinking when it comes to the cap. Dead money IS a part of the way teams HAVE to do business these days. QB's get paid in a market range. A $5 million dollar a year QB means you are still looking for a QB in most cases which also means you can not really build the rest of your team because you are preoccupied with finding a QB.

 

[Sharkinva]

Honestly, I would pay the place holder and build a helluva team while grooming my QB of the future. Unless I find the next Brady or Manning, I would not pay him the going rate until he has actually earned it.

And you would be right where the Redskins have been the past 20 years, looking for a QB because you were content with backups as starters and didnt have the patience to actually allow a QB to develop. And yes, you are going to have to pay for some one at some point, or you will never actually find a true starter.

 

[Sharkinva]

And you CANT BUILD a team, if every year you are inserting the next place holder while you try and groom your QB of the future. Because the only way a QB becomes a franchise QB is by actually PLAYING. So a place holder defeats that purpose.

 

[gkekoa]

Explain to me why Miami cant afford Jeffery?? Even WITH the $2.5 million that they are over the cap, if they wanted him, they could sign him. And to be honest, Tannehills deal wouldnt be the reason they are over the cap in any case.

You need to get over the old way of thinking when it comes to the cap. Dead money IS a part of the way teams HAVE to do business these days. QB's get paid in a market range. A $5 million dollar a year QB means you are still looking for a QB in most cases which also means you can not really build the rest of your team because you are preoccupied with finding a QB.

They have to resign several key players this season...more like they can't with Tannehills contract.

No playoff team has less room than Miami. Only NE and Pitt have less than we do.

Seattle has more than twice as we do.

The teams with the most dead space all suck...except Seattle...they are perplexing.

A cheap QB can win as many games as a Tannehill team. Look at Fitzpatrick. You can build a team and take a QB. You deal with what you draft but you draft the QB for you system.

 

[gkekoa]

And you would be right where the Redskins have been the past 20 years, looking for a QB because you were content with backups as starters and didnt have the patience to actually allow a QB to develop. And yes, you are going to have to pay for some one at some point, or you will never actually find a true starter.

Over the last 15 years, only Baltimore has been able to win without a legit QB. The moment they won, they fell back to mediocrity because they couldn't afford their team and their QB.

 

[ehb5]

I'm with GK on this one. Just because the market price for a starting qb is high doesn't mean it's not an overpay. Some of these guys don't deserve this money.

 

[cowboycolors]

Anytime you have a shortage of a commodity and you want that commodity you will pay the going market price in a " Free Market " and since starting Qb's are not exactly hanging around sacking grocery's (Kurt Warner) or undrafted (Tony Romo) or sitting there in the 6th round (Tom Brady) those guys are the exceptions to the rule so the stakes get high pretty quick when you have a guy that has been successful in the Starting Role.

Paying a Starting NFL QB is kind of like trying to count cards in Vegas you can do it but don't get caught or you will suffer the consequences. Not exactly apples to apples but I'm sure you get the point. Cousins is not worth the money he will get paid. But he could "grow" into the position and become underpaid based on what other Qb's with his production get paid in the future. That does not help but it makes things easier to take later on.

The old Fram Commercial said it best " pay me now or pay me later "

When is the last time a really good QB changed teams without a injury involved in the discussion and was successful ? Bottom line we all have our thoughts on what a team should do and everybody has valid points they can make. However the only point that matters in the end is did your (educated guess) gamble on the Qb pay off ?

And Gentlemen those results can be debated over and over and over



JMHO
Enjoy the SB guys

 

[Sharkinva]

They have to resign several key players this season...more like they can't with Tannehills contract.

No playoff team has less room than Miami. Only NE and Pitt have less than we do.

Seattle has more than twice as we do.

The teams with the most dead space all suck...except Seattle...they are perplexing.

A cheap QB can win as many games as a Tannehill team. Look at Fitzpatrick. You can build a team and take a QB. You deal with what you draft but you draft the QB for you system.

Do some research. Tannehills cap number for 2016 is $11.7 million.... hardly the reason they are in a cap quandry. Fitzpatrick is 33 years old. Again little to no future there. We have a QB for our system, his name is Kirk Cousins.

I get it, you are predisposed to pinch pennines. But seriously, the idea of bringing in a cheap stop gap and HOPING we can find and groom some one better than Cousins is just wasting more time and resources.

 

[skinsdad62]

my question is if miami is in a quandry about the cap why cant miami simply draft a wr ? why sign a big need free agent ? we have done that for years and it was an epic fail

look most of KC's money is coming from RG3 (16 mil ) we arent going to have a problem if we overpay KC if we draft right

 

[Sharkinva]

my question is if miami is in a quandry about the cap why cant miami simply draft a wr ? why sign a big need free agent ? we have done that for years and it was an epic fail

look most of KC's money is coming from RG3 (16 mil ) we arent going to have a problem if we overpay KC if we draft right

Skinsdad.... the reality is, no team is in a cap quandry these days. This isnt like 10 years ago when a team was projected to be over the cap for YEARS at a time and by tens of millions of dollars. Fact is, out of 32 teams, there are 3 currently projected to be OVER the cap. Of the other 29, there are only three with less than $5 million in cap space. If you bumped that up to less than $10 million, you get a grand total of 5 teams. So of the 32 teams, you could say eight are not in great cap positions.

IM fine with spending money to keep our own. Some would have us constantly rotating the roster in fear we might OVER pay some one and God forbid we actually over pay one of our own for a change. As for the inability to resign some key players.... Give me a list since apparently ANY market level deal is an over payment. Who is going to be coming up for a new deal that we actually might not be able to sign because we Over paid Kirk??

And I will make it easy for you.... We could sign Kirk to a 4 year $80 million dollar deal that was 100% guaranteed, and would still have no less than $20 million in cap space in 2017 and $50 million in 2018.

 

[gkekoa]

my question is if miami is in a quandry about the cap why cant miami simply draft a wr ? why sign a big need free agent ? we have done that for years and it was an epic fail

look most of KC's money is coming from RG3 (16 mil ) we arent going to have a problem if we overpay KC if we draft right

This is the correct question to ask Dad. My point is obvious though. If you overpay a QB, you will weaken your team at other places.

 

[Sharkinva]

This is the correct question to ask Dad. My point is obvious though. If you overpay a QB, you will weaken your team at other places.

Show us where it would weaken the team to pay Kirk a market value contract for a starting QB?? Unless you really think we should be in the market for some high priced FA's.

We sit just below 9 million right now BEFORE making any moves. We are projected to have $46 million in cap space next year. So unless you really think Cousins is going to have a $40 million dollar cap number, or fear we would have $50 million in dead money should he fail and need to be cut.... your line of thinking is NOT logical.