Just a thought to make us a little more pissed off.

[randymon]

Yeah don`t really get OP except that BB is certainly still bummed about SB and don`t blame him. We all are. I think OZ learning behind Manning and possibly at least 1 more yr just HAS to have been and will be a great benifit to OZ`s future in NFL. Sure the verdicts out on him as to if he will be a Qb who can get Denver to a SB after Manning retires, and yes,its anyones guess. At least he`s got a hell of a teacher to start him on his way. Heck we don`t even know if Dysert ( you know he`s benifitted also) might emerge either. I hear they ( broncos) are very high on him. Fact is, as we just witnessed, doesn`t matter if your QB is a HOF, you still need to be able to have a strong, all-around good team around him for a SB trip. Right now, I`am not worried too much about QB position as I am about how to rectify the other lack of personnel Denver needs to make another run next yr. No prob with the Wilson thoughts, he`s just pissed and who isn`t right now.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Well, I guess if you think that going to only your first read is "Better than average from the pocket" then this conversation can't go much further. It's not just me who sees it. Media analysts and NFL scouts have also seen that in Wilson.

Russell Wilson had a 101.2 passer rating. That was good enough for 7th in the NFL. He also ranked 4th in the NFL for YPA.

2013 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

So, I am guessing you think that he was indeed a FIRST READ ONLY QB. Sorry, if it was that simple and he had this problem with only going to first read, he would not be ranked 7th in the NFL in passer rating. That was all with his best WR injured for most of the year. Also, Pete Carroll comes from a west coast offense background. At least the Holmgren style.

Read this about his philosophy and how it also resembles Shanahan's nomenclature.

Reloaded: Seeds of the Seahawks' offense: Mike Shanahan & Pete Carroll - Field Gulls

In fact, what you have described are the flaws in Osweiler by scouts.

Brock Osweiler scouting report | NFL Draft Blog - DraftAce.com

Has a naturally long throwing motion due to his size, but the issue is compounded by an awkward almost sidearm delivery. Motion is also very inconsistent; looks completely different from one throw to the next. Mechanics crumble under pressure; needs to remain calm and maintain his composure in the pocket. Takes a long stride when throwing from the pocket; the stride, coupled with side-arm motion takes away from his height advantage. A good athlete, but kind of awkward when he runs – looks like he doesn’t quite know what to do with all 6’8″ of himself. Tends to lock on to his first read; needs to make significant improvement in his ability to go through his progressions. Accuracy on throws beyond 15 yards is shaky. Limited experience; only one full year as the starter. Decision to turn pro after just one relatively mediocre year raises some questions (is he just in it for the money?) – he has stated it was due to the firing of Arizona State’s coaching staff.

Elway wants a QB who can move when needed, but can also attack a defense from the pocket. The offense for Manning is a POCKET QB OFFENSE. So the transition from Manning to Osweiler, ANOTHER POCKET QB, is fairly smooth and painless. The blocking from the line will be similar, the skills personnel will be similar. Sure, Oz isn't going to run the exact same offense, but it would be comparable. Wilson is in a READ OPTION-type OFFENSE because he's a READ OPTION QB. I have doubts he can be groomed into the pocket passer Elway wants. He's in his second year, and still can't get past his first read. What makes Wilson more dangerous is his ability to throw on the run. That's the only part of Wilson's game that Elway desires. Currently to accomodate Wilson, we'd have to change the blocking to be more zone-read friendly. It's significantly different than what we have now.

The read option is being adapted by many teams, cause they have QBs that can run it. It is an effective weapon if you have the QB to run it. The Seahawks are not a READ OPTION team, meaning they run it, but it is not their base. They will run the stretch run too.

So, Russell Wilson can operate it and I do not see what you are seeing when you say Russell Wilson is just an average pocket passer. Sorry, when you are ranked 7th in passer rating, you are ABOVE AVERAGE in passing.

Also consider their schedule. 49ers twice a year, and they also played the Panthers in the regular season in Carolina. Some of the best defenses in the NFL. He is more than a game manager. He is a play maker, and he is also a pretty tenacious competitor.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Yeah don`t really get OP except that BB is certainly still bummed about SB and don`t blame him. We all are. I think OZ learning behind Manning and possibly at least 1 more yr just HAS to have been and will be a great benifit to OZ`s future in NFL. Sure the verdicts out on him as to if he will be a Qb who can get Denver to a SB after Manning retires, and yes,its anyones guess. At least he`s got a hell of a teacher to start him on his way. Heck we don`t even know if Dysert ( you know he`s benifitted also) might emerge either. I hear they ( broncos) are very high on him. Fact is, as we just witnessed, doesn`t matter if your QB is a HOF, you still need to be able to have a strong, all-around good team around him for a SB trip. Right now, I`am not worried too much about QB position as I am about how to rectify the other lack of personnel Denver needs to make another run next yr. No prob with the Wilson thoughts, he`s just pissed and who isn`t right now.

Yeah, like I said. AS OF NOW, Russell Wilson is the real deal. We do not know what Osweiler will be. I mean to hope or even expect the type of success Wilson has had in his two years would be a bit....ridiculous. Considering he has had greater success than ANY QB in the history of the NFL as far as wins etc.

I mean yes, I am hoping and will be hoping Osweiler has that success, but am I expecting it?

 

[Broncosballer32]

Yeah don`t really get OP except that BB is certainly still bummed about SB and don`t blame him. We all are. I think OZ learning behind Manning and possibly at least 1 more yr just HAS to have been and will be a great benifit to OZ`s future in NFL. Sure the verdicts out on him as to if he will be a Qb who can get Denver to a SB after Manning retires, and yes,its anyones guess. At least he`s got a hell of a teacher to start him on his way. Heck we don`t even know if Dysert ( you know he`s benifitted also) might emerge either. I hear they ( broncos) are very high on him. Fact is, as we just witnessed, doesn`t matter if your QB is a HOF, you still need to be able to have a strong, all-around good team around him for a SB trip. Right now, I`am not worried too much about QB position as I am about how to rectify the other lack of personnel Denver needs to make another run next yr. No prob with the Wilson thoughts, he`s just pissed and who isn`t right now.

True. I find it ironic how in Brady's best success as far as wins and SB victories were the years that his statistical output was less. In fact in his 3 SB winning seasons, he did not pass for 4000 yards nor 30 TDs in any of them. The last time they did win it (10 years ago) they had a 1600 yard rusher.

They were more balanced, and more importantly, their defenses were far more dynamic.

Of course, in our world with the morons in the media, they credit only Brady.

BTW, in his 8 best statistical seasons, he is 8-8 in the play offs with no SB wins. In those other years he was 10-0 in the play offs with 3 SB rings.

What does all of that say? Yes, it is a team effort.

 

[randymon]

Yeah, like I said. AS OF NOW, Russell Wilson is the real deal. We do not know what Osweiler will be. I mean to hope or even expect the type of success Wilson has had in his two years would be a bit....ridiculous. Considering he has had greater success than ANY QB in the history of the NFL as far as wins etc.

I mean yes, I am hoping and will be hoping Osweiler has that success, but am I expecting it?

Yeah BB, Wilson earned his right to start by out performing their ( hopefully and misguided) signing of Flynn. He won job and has done a remarkable job running that system implemented by Caroll. The Real Deal? Too soon to say.As you know in the NFL, teams will figure out his weakness ( obviously the pocket) and exploit that soon. We`ll see how long, and if, his abilitys (legs) will carry him. I love the guy,everything about him oozes winner but I really wonder how long his tenure as a "productive" starter will be if he doesn`t improve his pocket progression and if/when they aren`t as a dominating D down the road. I think he struggles but...he`s proven alot of experts wrong so far hasn`t he.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Hmmm...... I was talking about want has been said about Wilson as of a couple weeks ago, and the answer is to cite Osweiler's college scouting report? And you really think that's a fair comparison? I'm done. Go ahead and dream about life with Russell Wilson if you want. It's a fool's quest, but I'm not going to stop you. I'm getting off this train though.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Hmmm...... I was talking about want has been said about Wilson as of a couple weeks ago, and the answer is to cite Osweiler's college scouting report? And you really think that's a fair comparison? I'm done. Go ahead and dream about life with Russell Wilson if you want. It's a fool's quest, but I'm not going to stop you. I'm getting off this train though.

You are done? Good for you. I just pointed out the stupid fucking notion that you brought up that Russell Wilson is a below average fucking passer, while he was the 7th rated passer in the NFL.

You think you made your fucking case? I just pointed out that the Broncos passed on him for another QB, and AS OF RIGHT NOW, it seems to have been the wrong decision. Regardless of the height of Wilson.

I say AS OF RIGHT NOW cause that is the way it is. Will Osweiler be all that? I do not know. No one fucking knows. That is not the point. Cause the point is the QB they passed on just so happens to have accomplished more in his first two years than ANY QB in the history of the fucking NFL.

You harp on the fact that he supposedly locked on to ONE WR and then he would run. Sorry, that is bullshit. I was actually fucking polite about too.

I then went into specifics and YEAH I BROUGHT UP OSWEILER'S scouting report. Why the hell would I not? The scouting reports pointed out one of the weaknesses in Osweiler that YOU APPLIED to Wilson.

Yeah, you get off the fucking train. Dream about Wilson?

How about this.

Fuck you!

 

[BroncoInCALI]

The title said "a little more pissed off".....I'd hate to see a lot more.

Lol.....

 

[MrDoc420]

The title said "a little more pissed off".....I'd hate to see a lot more.

Lol.....

Yah....you can tell the tempers are on edge around here this week. I don't blame any one of us for being a little pissy though......it's actually the way it should be if you truly care. I can tell you as of right now that I probably won't be back to normal for around two weeks. My stomach still has a fat ass knot in it.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Yah....you can tell the tempers are on edge around here this week. I don't blame any one of us for being a little pissy though......it's actually the way it should be if you truly care. I can tell you as of right now that I probably won't be back to normal for around two weeks. My stomach still has a fat ass knot in it.

Yeah, just so long as you do not make foolish assertions like the 7th rated passer in the NFL who has accomplished more than ANY OTHER QB in the history of the NFL as being a below average passer. Then act like you are making a point with arrogant disposition, then everything is OK.

The very second anyone responds to me with disrespect, I respond not in kind. Rather in an overt way to illustrate a point.

I will say this too. IF Osweiler is not the future QB that we all hope he will be, and IF Russell Wilson continues his historic run, it will be something that someone will bring up. Sure hope Osweiler flourishes.

It may be unfair, cause no one has a crystal ball, but this is how drafts are judged. Not only on what players you pick that are busts, but also players of the SAME POSITION that are picked over others. Life is unfair. That is how drafts will be judged. The fact is the Broncos selected a QB in the second round and Russell Wilson was selected in the 3rd round.

Ought to frustrate Broncos fans who are paying attention to what he is doing.

 

[MrDoc420]

I personally think Osweiler is going to do well when his time comes. He has all the physical tools to be a very good QB in the NFL. I'm just hoping that his maturation and development sitting behind Manning for 3-4 years will translate into something similar to Aaron Rodgers.

Will he be as good? More than likely not, but if he's able to gain oodles of knowledge behind one of the all time greats like Rodgers did, then he's going to have a good shot of performing well when his time comes.

I know having Peyton come back next year will be key to our success in the '14 season, but I can't say that I'm not growing anxious to see what kind of player Oz is going to be.

 

[FFSparky]

Remember BB: The grass ALWAYS looks greener on the other side of the fence. Sometimes it's because of better manicuring, other times, it's because it's growing right above a septic tank.

It was a miracle we were able to get what we got with Tebow. But AGAIN, the offense had to be completely retooled after he left. Wilson would not have been a good fit in Denver's current offensive system, so it becomes a waste of a pick, and here's why:

Wilson's strength comes when he runs out of the pocket. He keeps his head up, and is always looking to complete the pass. Part of that is out of necessity, since his size puts him at a disadvantage in the pocket. Flutie was the same way. With Brees, the NO line has to work to open passing lanes as well as protect the QB. Usually it's up to the task, but when it's not, that offense crumbles like a cheap muffin.

Now, if Wilson is kept in the pocket, he becomes VERY AVERAGE. He doesn't go through progressions. He doesn't have the ability to check down that other pocket passers have.


What you really want is a QB who's mobile enough to scramble when needed, but can also stay in the pocket and pick a defense apart as well. Wilson isn't that QB. He'd absolutely SUCK in our current system. Osweiler's jury is still out, but his skills offer a much smoother transition offensively. If you really want to play this game, I think Foles would have been a great choice for Denver, but I'm also a U of Az guy. But, it's entirely possible that Oz grows to become an effective QB as well.

But, it's entirely possible that Oz grows to become an effective QB as well.


And the bonus that he's hopefully learning from a master of the game!

 

[BroncoInCALI]

Believe me fellas. I am pissed.

I just don't see the point in taking it out on fellow Bronco fans, especially on a topic that won't have results for at least another 2-3 years.

To each his own, though.

Go Broncos

 

[Morpheus]

Stop.

Take a friggin' breath.

Realize everyone here is a Broncos fan and relax.

If you feel bad about the game this week, feel embarrassed, or any other emotions because of what happened, just stop.

Your just a fan. Imagine how the players feel after that ass-kicking.( I think Peyton's comments after the game were more in defense of his teammates and the season they had when responding to the reporter about being embarrassed. He certainly knows his performance was not good).

We can certainly discuss our thoughts on why they performed badly. But in the end, it is just an opinion. I have seen ridiculous comments all over social media and on TV and the radio and a lot of it is just knee jerk reaction and finger pointing.

My opinion is that overall, a majority of this team was not mentally prepared for this game. Whether it was overconfidence, a lack of confidence, or both, they got dominated.

And specifically, I think the offense was not prepared. The play calling was very questionable. Richard Sherman also said they had figured out Manning’s hand signals and were jumping pass routes. With 2 weeks to prepare, this is a huge blunder.

The bottom line is they got punched in the mouth and could not respond.

The defense actually only allowed 13 points in the first half (held them to 2 FGs on their first 2 possessions) which is a miracle considering the way the offense played.
Turnovers eventually became too much for the defense to overcome and they got beat into submission by a more physical and better prepared team.

In my opinion, Manning over thinks it and has a tendency to stress out or grip to tightly in big games like this at times. His intense preparation may be to the team’s detriment at a certain point and in my opinion, he would be better served if he learned to let loose a little.

And this second guessing about Russell Wilson was discussed ad nauseum by a bunch of us last year. He does not fit into what the Broncos were doing on offense and the direction they wanted to go with their offensive scheme. If Seattle did not have such a formidable defense, their offense would not be nearly as good. I give Russell Wilson credit for being a smart player, and making the most out of situational football and being a good decision maker and playmaker, but he is not carrying the team on his back with his ability to read defenses and throw for 300 plus yards if they had to come back from a 2 score deficit.

If you take away the Safety and defensive scores in the first half and opening kick return for a TD of the 3rd quarter, the Seattle offense scored 2 FG and a TD in the first half. Not exactly an offensive juggernaut. Their defense is why they are in a position to win games.

But as far as Brock Osweiler goes, he may or not turn out to be a good QB, only time will tell. Personally I wanted Nick Foles in that draft who was taken after Osweiler.

2nd guessing and being pissed off does not change anything. FA and the draft are right around the corner and the Broncos are behind in their prep as 30 other teams have had more time to get ready for the 2014 season.

 

[BroncoInCALI]

Perfectly said, Morph.....

 

[randymon]

Well said Morph and now that some of the sting has worn off ( actually I`am old and I wasn`t as bad my poor baby girl) I`am actually looking forward to combines and May draft and will be very optomistic on another very realistic shot at the trophy next season!!

 

[FFSparky]

Excellent points Morph.



Your picture needs a little tweak.

"I'll ALWAYS be a Broncos Fan"
Just give me a few days to recover!

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Remember BB: The grass ALWAYS looks greener on the other side of the fence. Sometimes it's because of better manicuring, other times, it's because it's growing right above a septic tank.

It was a miracle we were able to get what we got with Tebow. But AGAIN, the offense had to be completely retooled after he left. Wilson would not have been a good fit in Denver's current offensive system, so it becomes a waste of a pick, and here's why:

Wilson's strength comes when he runs out of the pocket. He keeps his head up, and is always looking to complete the pass. Part of that is out of necessity, since his size puts him at a disadvantage in the pocket. Flutie was the same way. With Brees, the NO line has to work to open passing lanes as well as protect the QB. Usually it's up to the task, but when it's not, that offense crumbles like a cheap muffin.

Now, if Wilson is kept in the pocket, he becomes VERY AVERAGE. He doesn't go through progressions. He doesn't have the ability to check down that other pocket passers have.


What you really want is a QB who's mobile enough to scramble when needed, but can also stay in the pocket and pick a defense apart as well. Wilson isn't that QB. He'd absolutely SUCK in our current system. Osweiler's jury is still out, but his skills offer a much smoother transition offensively. If you really want to play this game, I think Foles would have been a great choice for Denver, but I'm also a U of Az guy. But, it's entirely possible that Oz grows to become an effective QB as well.

Disagree… Wilson throws just fine from the pocket… And I guarantee I've watched him more than you have….

 

[Malibu]

If you take away the Safety and defensive scores in the first half and opening kick return for a TD of the 3rd quarter, the Seattle offense scored 2 FG and a TD in the first half. Not exactly an offensive juggernaut. Their defense is why they are in a position to win games.



Ya because having a great offense the last 2 years has really helped the Broncos.

 

[WalkerBoh]

If you take away the Safety and defensive scores in the first half and opening kick return for a TD of the 3rd quarter, the Seattle offense scored 2 FG and a TD in the first half. Not exactly an offensive juggernaut. Their defense is why they are in a position to win games.



Ya because having a great offense the last 2 years has really helped the Broncos.

Helped them to a 26-6 regular season record, and a Lamar Hunt trophy. Not very many teams can say that. And in fact, had we not been derailed so quickly this season, the SB game would have been much closer. That safety, for whatever reason, seemed to have our offense shell-shocked, and I think after the FG and we went 3- out, they panicked even though it was still only a one-score game.

Now imagine that offense with a top 5 rated defense...... I don't think it's lack of talent. I think it's execution. If our players learn to execute like the Seahawks do, the Broncos would become a virtual buzz saw (Think 1989 49ers....)

Hey, at least we all can remember (and have witnessed) Denver winning the Lamar Hunt trophy (I can remember all 7). How many KC fans out there can even remember their last one (or for that matter were old enough to remember)