Jay Gruden fired

[cincygrad]

I just have not come to conclusion this is Tobin's fault.

It's hard to know what his exact role has been for all of these years, because the Bengals aren't very transparent about who does what. It's hard for me to imagine that Marvin didn't have a big say in roster construction over the years, though I do remember hearing that he was pissed off when the team took John Ross.

It's also hard to know what role Tobin has played in making decisions about free agents. From 2015 until now, the offense has lost Andrew Whitworth, Kevin Zeitler, Marvin Jones, and Mohamed Sanu to free agency.... The players that were selected to replace them have not been nearly as good (though Boyd has begun to emerge). The talent drain on offense has been a big problem for the franchise. It's just not clear who calls the shots.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

It's hard to know what his exact role has been for all of these years, because the Bengals aren't very transparent about who does what. It's hard for me to imagine that Marvin didn't have a big say in roster construction over the years, though I do remember hearing that he was pissed off when the team took John Ross.

It's also hard to know what role Tobin has played in making decisions about free agents. From 2015 until now, the offense has lost Andrew Whitworth, Kevin Zeitler, Marvin Jones, and Mohamed Sanu to free agency.... The players that were selected to replace them have not been nearly as good (though Boyd has begun to emerge). The talent drain on offense has been a big problem for the franchise. It's just not clear who calls the shots.

I can agree with that.

 

[Cincyfan78]

LOL Mike Brown plays the NFL a different way. To lose.

I'll say this: I think Mike Brown wants to win. I really do. However, I think he wants to win "His' way...that way does not work. Instead of admitting his mistake and moving on to another tactic, he continues to double down.

A great example is Cedric O and Jake F on the OL. For years the coaches watched these two duds suck. Anyone with any ability to evaluate talent had to know that these two guys were simply never going to make it. For all of Marvin's faults, the guy knows talent. But, Brown is loyal to a fault. They drafted those guys, and instead of admitting that they screwed up (be it Brown, Marvin, Tobin, etc...), they doubled down by letting both Whit and Zeit go. The right move would have been to sign at least 1 of those guys. Instead, not only did they lose their double down-bet, but they've been a cycle of trying to band-aid over their mistake for several years now. This has caused mass deterioration along the line.

Another, older, example that still permeates through the program is his refusal to pay Free Agents. He never took to FA's in the 90's, refusing to adapt to the 'new' NFL at the time and it killed them when they lost the bulk of that late 80's team, especially (again) along the OL.

I truly believe he wants to win. I do. The NFL makes money hand over fist, so "saving" money from a lack of spending really means nothing. I just truly believe that in his mind, he has a way that it has to be done, and even though it has proven to be wrong 9 times out of 10....that 1 time they catch lightening in a bottle (2005, 2015) - it's enough to make him think that he can do it that way. He doesn't accept that it isn't sustainable.

 

[cincygrad]

I'll say this: I think Mike Brown wants to win. I really do. However, I think he wants to win "His' way...that way does not work. Instead of admitting his mistake and moving on to another tactic, he continues to double down.

A great example is Cedric O and Jake F on the OL. For years the coaches watched these two duds suck. Anyone with any ability to evaluate talent had to know that these two guys were simply never going to make it. For all of Marvin's faults, the guy knows talent. But, Brown is loyal to a fault. They drafted those guys, and instead of admitting that they screwed up (be it Brown, Marvin, Tobin, etc...), they doubled down by letting both Whit and Zeit go. The right move would have been to sign at least 1 of those guys. Instead, not only did they lose their double down-bet, but they've been a cycle of trying to band-aid over their mistake for several years now. This has caused mass deterioration along the line.

Another, older, example that still permeates through the program is his refusal to pay Free Agents. He never took to FA's in the 90's, refusing to adapt to the 'new' NFL at the time and it killed them when they lost the bulk of that late 80's team, especially (again) along the OL.

I truly believe he wants to win. I do. The NFL makes money hand over fist, so "saving" money from a lack of spending really means nothing. I just truly believe that in his mind, he has a way that it has to be done, and even though it has proven to be wrong 9 times out of 10....that 1 time they catch lightening in a bottle (2005, 2015) - it's enough to make him think that he can do it that way. He doesn't accept that it isn't sustainable.

I think you are correct. People try to read too much into Mike Brown's behavior as an owner. You hear things like, 'he's a great businessman, that's making money.' I don't think this is true..... The money makes itself. And being a good owner isn't just about throwing money at a situation. Look at Dan Snyder. Brown's issue is that he has a set of principles that guide him with regards to the game of football. Unfortunately they are not shared with the other owners and they are not realistic for the modern age. As you said, he wants to do it his way and he isn't changing. He's also completely myopic when it comes to the fans and people of Cincinnati. Small touches he could make to the stadium or the way his team is marketed to the community do not make sense to him, so he refuses to do them. Take the Bengal "Circle of Fame" idea.... While it may seem superfluous and unnecessary, these are things that other teams do to honor former players and help fan engagement. Mike sees this as unnecessary and a distraction from football, so he doesn't do it even though it would be popular.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think you are correct. People try to read too much into Mike Brown's behavior as an owner. You hear things like, 'he's a great businessman, that's making money.' I don't think this is true..... The money makes itself. And being a good owner isn't just about throwing money at a situation. Look at Dan Snyder. Brown's issue is that he has a set of principles that guide him with regards to the game of football. Unfortunately they are not shared with the other owners and they are not realistic for the modern age. As you said, he wants to do it his way and he isn't changing. He's also completely myopic when it comes to the fans and people of Cincinnati. Small touches he could make to the stadium or the way his team is marketed to the community do not make sense to him, so he refuses to do them. Take the Bengal "Circle of Fame" idea.... While it may seem superfluous and unnecessary, these are things that other teams do to honor former players and help fan engagement. Mike sees this as unnecessary and a distraction from football, so he doesn't do it even though it would be popular.

ANY distraction from this teams' football is necessary and warranted!!! LOL

 

[DanBengalfan]

it's passive income for him by this time in his life.