Is Thoron the Claude Lemuix

[CaptHowdy00]

Back in the day, Lemuix was hated by all. Especially after what he did to Draper. Now with what Thorto did to Oprik, he may have garnered the title of the most hated player in the NHL.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

I don't condone what Thornton did, but I think "most hated player in the NHL" may be a stretch.

For one, he isn't a household name, he is a goon. There was a time when he could contribute a little (he put up 10-11 goals just 2 years ago, many of them GW goals) but he isn't doing that now so he is pretty much a thug. However, he is also a respected thug.

He (until now) fought fair and honored The Code. People knew getting into it with Thornton would be a clean and honorable fight. This will be his first suspension; that is surprising considering how physical he plays and what his role is on the Bruins.

I think sucker punching Orpik was a major lapse of judgement, but I also pin some of this on the referees. They let that game get out of control - Crosby trips Marchand in plain sight, about 15 feet in front of, a ref and no call for example.

The hit on Ericsson seemed to clean to me, but I can see it not being clean too. The bigger issue was Orpik leveled a Bruins star, and with them losing Savard permanently to cheap shot concussions and stuff I can understand why they won't take things like that lightly.

Thornton tried to get Orpik to fight, but he didn't want to go. That to me would have diffused the situation right there - he nailed him (clean or not), was confronted, answered the call, end of story. But he refused and all that did was escalate the situation even more.

Then you have Neal who deliberately kneed Marchand in the head when he was down and all he got was a 4 minute penalty? He should have been tossed from the game. Neal has a history of head hunting and is a repeat offender, pretty obvious he goes out there trying to hurt people. The 5 game suspension is a joke, if that's some no name third liner there are a lot more games added to that suspension.

Add all this stuff in and it was only a matter of time before the Bruins would say enough and that's what Thornton did. Poor decision punching a defenseless player, especially one who plays for the Penguins who are a majority of cheap shot artists, but that still doesn't excuse the crime.

Again though, if the refs took control of this game none of this happens. Calls both ways should have been made earlier in the game.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Shawn Thornton doesn't have 1/10th the skill of Claude Lemieux /endthread

 

[CaptHowdy00]

All good points Pucky and I understand where you're coming from. But, of all the things that happened during the game, this is the one that was going to be talked about the most.
Also, look back in time and remember when McSorley took Donald B down with his stick. His excuse was that he was challenging him to a fight. Apetuzi inside to comes to mind too. Again the same excuse. I understand wanting to challenge a player to a fight. But if that player is not willing to go, then continue using with the action is dumb at best and dangerous at worst.
And based on the video I didn't see a challenge being issued. It looked like to me, Thorton skated up and started hitting without taking his gloves off.
That is just my opinion.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

All good points Pucky and I understand where you're coming from. But, of all the things that happened during the game, this is the one that was going to be talked about the most.
Also, look back in time and remember when McSorley took Donald B down with his stick. His excuse was that he was challenging him to a fight. Apetuzi inside to comes to mind too. Again the same excuse. I understand wanting to challenge a player to a fight. But if that player is not willing to go, then continue using with the action is dumb at best and dangerous at worst.
And based on the video I didn't see a challenge being issued. It looked like to me, Thorton skated up and started hitting without taking his gloves off.
That is just my opinion.

I can't compare the Apetuzzi incident to this one, or even the McSorley one. Apetuzzi jumped Moore, flat out gangsta style, and McSorley knocked Brashear out before he could even try and engage in a fight. Using his stick was just icing on the cake, which was awful too.

The Thornton/Orpik challenge actually came earlier, before this fiasco, and Orpik backed up and skated away. Had he just dropped the gloves and went, it would have been over.

Orpik isn't a fighter, and is on record as one of the few NHL players who want it abolished from the NHL. It wasn't his place to fight Thornton, although he is a big boy who probably would have done fine.

I think Thornton violated the code in that sense, going after a non-fighter, but he also validated it by going after the guy who was the root cause and not someone else on the Penguins.

 

[LALakersboy24.7]

Good Old Claude Lemieux

 

[Fox4Kings]

You shouldn't have to fight just because the other team is pissed off at you, especially if you've done done nothing illegal.

 

[Deader2818]

You shouldn't have to fight just because the other team is pissed off at you, especially if you've done done nothing illegal.

Exactly.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

You shouldn't have to fight just because the other team is pissed off at you, especially if you've done done nothing illegal.

Well you see, that's the code - don't touch another team's star player.

Orpik did just that, and Thornton came to get an answer. If Orpik lays out some plugger, Thornton doesn't react like that. But since Orpik did, he is then considered fair game.

Orpik needed to fight Thornton not for the hit, but for who he delivered it to. Thornton gave him an opportunity to man up but Orpik walked away. This scenario is exactly what I fear will happen with Brown and his hit and run mentality and not manning up now and again.

On that note, Thornton suspended 15 games. I think that's fair considering the actions.

Shawn Thornton of Boston Bruins suspended 15 games for Brooks Orpik incident - ESPN Boston

What a joke that three-time offender Neal gets 5 for kneeing Marchand.

 

[CaptHowdy00]

Oprik's hit was clean. It wasn't a cheap shot. So why would he be required to fight? If Kopitar gets hitby a fair check, would the offender be beaten by Car Bomb or Nolen? Basically this need to fight over a clean check is a bad for the game, because no one is going to play the checking game.
There will be no big hits, if every time a player thinks that heis going to drop the gloves.
And I think fighting should be in the game. I just think that both combatants should be willing. thorton sent a gift basket to Oprik as an apology. So does that mean that the next time he is on the ice against the Pens all should be forgiven? No. And he should be chalanger to a fight, but the challenger should be a willing combatant. And if Thornton turtles than that is wrong. The punishment should fit the crime. And IMO Oprik "offence" was a clean check. So why should he fight?

 

[pete6835]

 

[Deader2818]

This whole idea of "you need to drop the gloves for making a big, clean hit" is just stupid.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

This whole idea of "you need to drop the gloves for making a big, clean hit" is just stupid.

And I agree with that. Have you seen me say at any time during this thread the hit was dirty? Nope. Thornton didn't go after Orpik because the hit was clean, he went after Thornton because of who he hit.

And yes, if any one of the Kings' stars were hit like that I would fully expect Carcillo, Nolan or Clifford to confront that player. That is the code that people talk about, and Orpik violated it - drilling a star, clean hit or not - and making himself fair game to take a beat down. If the Kings didn't, I'd be pretty pissed, just like we all were several years ago when that bitch Malkin elbowed Simmonds as time was expiring and everyone skated off the ice.

That is also part of the code; you cross that line you have essentially told the other team you don't care who it was and you're willing to be confronted. Orpik also didn't honor that part of it, he skated away when Thornton gave him a chance to answer for the hit on Ericsson. Even if he got his lunch handed to him, in Thornton's eyes he would have done the right thing - he laid out a star, he answered for it, end of story. It's about respect and neither guy showed any but for different reasons.

I don't condone what Thornton did - Orpik didn't want to go, and he tried to goad him, so what do you do? Fight yourself? He crossed the line slew footing him and then punching him when he was down, which has no place in this game. I also feel the poor reffing helped escalate the situation, which wasn't good. The Penguins are a cheap shot team and the refs turned a blind eye to a lot of stuff going on by both teams. Had they showed the players "hey, we're in control here" I feel this incident doesn't happen.

Make sense now?

 

[Deader2818]

No because no where in "The Code" does it say you don't hit star players, lol.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

No because no where in "The Code" does it say you don't hit star players, lol.

Well nothing is actually written in "the code", it's inferred. And yes, it is in there - star players are off limits.

Always has been, always will be. Thus why guys like McSorley and Semenko were around protecting Gretzky.

 

[blk4x499]

Dustin Brown part two. As Puck said, clean hit or not, you lay out a star player, you better be prepared to take responsibility and answer the bell. This is what I like about Thornton, he is not a goon and has always been a responsible, clean player. If Orpik drops the gloves, he very well may not be concussed right now.

If anything, Neal is the one who should have received the 15 game suspension and not Thornton.

 

[Deader2818]

Its honestly stupid to expect a player to drop the gloves for laying out a clean hit.

Keep your head up. Hockey 101.

 

[Kings4OT]

Eventually the hits will become dirty if left unchecked. 1 top player out of the lineup could end your season, you have to protect them. Clean hit or not, drop the gloves and its all over and both teams move on, simple. Besides its not like ever big clean hit is known to be clean by everyone on the ice in the heat of the moment, you hear a big crash and your top player is crumpled on the ice you respond.

 

[CaptHowdy00]

So let me ask the question another way. Are the players on ice while moving so fast, given time to figure out who they are about to hit? Should super stars have a free pass and just havea clear path to the goalie? Or what if the super star initiates the contact and cleanly checks another super star, is the intinitiate of the contact not going to be challenged?
This code has too many holes. I understand that a team should protect their own.
We used to have Lappy on our team. He was the most annoying player ever and dropped the gloves. He was a fighter and was a willing combatant. Oprik is not a fighter, he plays a fast hard game. Brown is another example. To us he is a super star, but to othe teams he may not be. So when he lays out a clean check, is he expected to fight.
And that brings up another point. Who's detention of super star do you use? A team like the Panthers, are pretty much a scrub team. Do the Panthers or for that matter any team come out with am untouchable list?
I just think that Thorton's thinking was skewed. If Oprik did not want to fight, why not challenge someone on the Pens that is willing.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Dustin Brown part two. As Puck said, clean hit or not, you lay out a star player, you better be prepared to take responsibility and answer the bell. This is what I like about Thornton, he is not a goon and has always been a responsible, clean player. If Orpik drops the gloves, he very well may not be concussed right now.

That's what I completely believe.

If Orpik mans up and says "yeah, I did it. Come and get me", gets into it with Thornton and win or lose, this situation is completely diffused. Instead, by being a wuss he instead got something a whole lot worse.

Brown hits and runs, and this is what I fear will happen one day. He goes out and destroys some player, gets confronted and doesn't drop the gloves and later in the game Kopitar gets a deliberate elbow to the head and is out for a month with a concussion. This is what happens when guys don't own up to their game.

If anything, Neal is the one who should have received the 15 game suspension and not Thornton.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Thornton completely crossed a line he shouldn't have. You don't do what he did, even after said wuss backs out of a fight and refuses to be held accountable. Thornton should have just said OK, we will meet next time and either lay him out with a clean hit in this game or tuck it away into the files if he doesn't get a chance and get even with him at a future date.

I do agree however that the 5 game dish to Neal was a joke. He has headhunted people a ton the last few years but because he is a star player he gets shit. Not cool either.