Is this the last of the Yankees?

[rokketmn]

About 2 years ago, on the old CBS board (and again last year), I posted that the Yankees were going the way of the dinosaurs and were going to be extinct. I gave them a 2 year window to win before lean times, and this is the second year. Needless to say, many Yankee fans mocked me.

My reasoning was the following:

1. The Yankees are an OLD team.
2. They have nothing in the farm system that will be able to help them next season
3. By the time 2015 rolls around and some prospects do show up, Sabathia will be 35, Teixeira 35, Jeter 41, A-Rod 40, and even Cano will be 33. Even if Kuroda is still pitching (and with the Yankees), he will be 40.
4. Rivera and Pettitte will be long gone
5. Maybe most importantly, the Yankees just can't sign the best free agents anymore because most teams are locking up their young, core players into their 30's.

I would like to know where those Yankee fans are now. Are they here under different screen names? NyNasty, Village Plumber, etc.?

Come out of the woodwork and take your medicine.

Who's laughing now?

 

[Hambombs]

Not to mention cano is a free agent after this season

 

[BigDDude]

I would like to know where those Yankee fans are now. Are they here under different screen names? NyNasty, Village Plumber, etc.?

I know they both post here, and both have the same names. Nasty can probably be found on the Yanks team board here, whereas VP is likely on the daily thread.

Signed,

The former bigdmgr.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

About 2 years ago, on the old CBS board (and again last year), I posted that the Yankees were going the way of the dinosaurs and were going to be extinct. I gave them a 2 year window to win before lean times, and this is the second year. Needless to say, many Yankee fans mocked me.


My reasoning was the following:

1. The Yankees are an OLD team.
2. They have nothing in the farm system that will be able to help them next season
3. By the time 2015 rolls around and some prospects do show up, Sabathia will be 35, Teixeira 35, Jeter 41, A-Rod 40, and even Cano will be 33. Even if Kuroda is still pitching (and with the Yankees), he will be 40.
4. Rivera and Pettitte will be long gone
5. Maybe most importantly, the Yankees just can't sign the best free agents anymore because most teams are locking up their young, core players into their 30's.

I would like to know where those Yankee fans are now. Are they here under different screen names? NyNasty, Village Plumber, etc.?

Come out of the woodwork and take your medicine.

Who's laughing now?

It's the end of *THIS* run, absolutely. But the end entirely? Absolutely not. This is the same as the late 80s/early 90s squads. Overpaid, over-the-hill veterans, desperation signings and a depleted farm system. They'll have a few bad years, get back to basics, put it back together, and have another prolonged run.

I don't know why you're laughing. The game is, always has been, and always will be cyclical. All teams have their ups and downs, even the Yankees.

 

[Chef99]

It's the end of *THIS* run, absolutely. But the end entirely? Absolutely not. This is the same as the late 80s/early 90s squads. Overpaid, over-the-hill veterans, desperation signings and a depleted farm system. They'll have a few bad years, get back to basics, put it back together, and have another prolonged run.

I don't know why you're laughing. The game is, always has been, and always will be cyclical. All teams have their ups and downs, even the Yankees.

As much as I dislike the Yankees, I agree. We all know they'll be players again. It's just a matter of time.

Not to digress, but I can't say enough about the job Girardi has done with this team. Considering what he has to work with, I don't think any other manager has done a better job this year.

 

[rokketmn]

I don't mean forever. I am basing this on what I can see. I can predict lean times for the rest of the decade. The Sox, Rays, Orioles, and Jays are all set up better for the next 5-7 years or so. After that? I don't know.

Another thing is that baseball has caught up to the Yankees. When the Yankees were dominating the end of the 90's, there were very few good teams around. Now, the teams got smart, drafted well, and retained their core players. In any given season, there may be 10-12 teams that can be considered legitimate contenders.

So when, and if, the Yankees are good again, the road will not be as easy as in the past.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

As much as I dislike the Yankees, I agree. We all know they'll be players again. It's just a matter of time.

Not to digress, but I can't say enough about the job Girardi has done with this team. Considering what he has to work with, I don't think any other manager has done a better job this year.

Digress all you like. I agree completely. It's all been smoke and mirrors. No manager has pulled more rabbits out of their hat than him, though I'd still personally vote Maddon as ALMOY, since it appears that the Yankees are destined to finish under .500. If Girardi had kept them in the WC race until September, he would have been the only reasonable choice for the award, but that's just not going to happen.

 

[rokketmn]

I grew up in Queens as a Mets fan. How I turned to the Sox is a story I won't get into now, but I really like the way the Mets are set up. Complete opposite of the Yankees.

The Mets have the young pitching with Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, Gee, Mejia, Hefner, and don't forget Niese (though he could be trade bait for a bat).

Where they need help is offensively, but they still have Wright. D'Arnaud should be up for good next season. Murphy and Duda are decent players. They just need another bat to help Wright. I don't know how Flores' tools will translate to the majors from the PCL, and he also needs a position, but he has some promise as well. If Gavin Cecchini can hit anyhting like his brother, the Mets could have another good one.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I don't mean forever. I am basing this on what I can see. I can predict lean times for the rest of the decade. The Sox, Rays, Orioles, and Jays are all set up better for the next 5-7 years or so. After that? I don't know.

Another thing is that baseball has caught up to the Yankees. When the Yankees were dominating the end of the 90's, there were very few good teams around. Now, the teams got smart, drafted well, and retained their core players. In any given season, there may be 10-12 teams that can be considered legitimate contenders.

So when, and if, the Yankees are good again, the road will not be as easy as in the past.

The rest of the decade? I think that's a big stretch. I think they'll miss the playoffs for 3-4 years starting this year, but then at least get to a point where they're ready to make it back to the postseason after that. Remember, a lot of those late 80s teams would have made the postseason with the current structure. They simply were never good enough in the two-division format between 1982 and 1988. So that prolonged run from 1981-1995 wasn't as big a drought as it looks like on paper.

And what do you mean the road was easy in the 90s and there were no good teams? That's some revisionist history right there. The Indians, Orioles, White Sox and Mariners had very strong cores in the 90s. They just didn't put it all together. The 1990s Yankee teams were mostly built from within and supplemented with smart trades, and smaller free agent pickups. The idea that they plucked every small market team's star player to construct their roster is a hilarious myth.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I grew up in Queens as a Mets fan. How I turned to the Sox is a story I won't get into now, but I really like the way the Mets are set up. Complete opposite of the Yankees.

The Mets have the young pitching with Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, Gee, Mejia, Hefner, and don't forget Niese (though he could be trade bait for a bat).

Where they need help is offensively, but they still have Wright. D'Arnaud should be up for good next season. Murphy and Duda are decent players. They just need another bat to help Wright. I don't know how Flores' tools will translate to the majors from the PCL, and he also needs a position, but he has some promise as well. If Gavin Cecchini can hit anyhting like his brother, the Mets could have another good one.

I'm a Yankee fan, but I'm not one of these fans who buys into the manufactured rivalry. I fully support the Mets and hope they do well. I agree that they're primed for a run like they had from 85-90. They just need to wisely spend a few shekels to bolster their lineup. I think Choo and Ellsbury would be a very good start this offseason. Take a stop-gap flier on Brendan Ryan as an all-glove/no-bat shortstop. Give Flores a full season at 1B to see if you have anything in him, but if he doesn't work out, find a huge bat who can play 1B for the big run in 2015. I disagree that Duda is a decent player, though. At least not in the NL. They should trade him to an AL team for an established reliever.

Ellsbury, CF
Legares, LF
Choo, RF
Wright, 3B
Flores, 1B
D'Arnaud, C
Murphy, 2B
Ryan, SS

Harvey
Wheeler
Gee
Niese
Hefner (until Syndergaard, Mejia or Montero is ready)

Solid club.

 

[rokketmn]

No votes for Farrell as MOY? He has taken a team that finished last and turned it into the best team in the A.L. (with the help of Cherington as well). He also turned around the pitching staff. This team also has that look of the 2003 and 2004 teams that just never quit.

I'm not saying he should or will win it, but he has to be in the argument.

 

[rokketmn]

How do you do the "Quote" thing?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

No votes for Farrell as MOY? He has taken a team that finished last and turned it into the best team in the A.L. (with the help of Cherington as well). He also turned around the pitching staff. This team also has that look of the 2003 and 2004 teams that just never quit.

I'm not saying he should or will win it, but he has to be in the argument.

I picked them to make the playoffs (finishing 2nd to the Blue Jays with 92-95 wins), so I don't see how Farrell has done anything spectacular. I was stunned that people had such low expectations of them.

That said, I have to completely and utterly disagree. This team looks ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like the 2003-2004 teams. Those teams were built on walks, power and timely pitching. They were a pure sabermetric team. That's not the case here. This is a much more scrappy team. They are an incredibly balanced team. They don't have any major strengths (except perhaps defense), but they have absolutely no weaknesses. They're good at everything.

You mentioned the word quit. This team simply hasn't quit on Farrell the way they quit on Francona (the 2011 team was good enough, they just quit, like you said), and they way they never even tried for Valentine. Farrell was the obvious choice for the job, because he already had an established relationship with some of the key players and they weren't going to throw him under the bus. I'm not trying to take anything away from Farrell. He's a solid manager, but he hasn't been that big a difference maker this year.

 

[rokketmn]

Ellsbury, CF
Legares, LF
Choo, RF
Wright, 3B
Flores, 1B
D'Arnaud, C
Murphy, 2B
Ryan, SS

Not enough power in that lineup. I agree they should take a shot with Ellsbury and get a solid leadoff hitter, but they don't need to spend the whole wad in one off-season.

They have trade chips in Ike Davis, Niese, and Murphy to varying degrees. Niese could bring a solid bat back. The Mets could go cheaper in bring in a guy like Mike Morse to play 1B, or even a Kendrys Morales.

One of the reasons the Sox turned it around this year is because Cherington used the money saved from A-Gone, Crawford, and Beckett and brought in Napoli, Victorino, Gomes, Dempster, Uehara, Ross, Hanrahan, and Drew. He had the flexibility to add Peavy. He went cheaper on shorter term deals because there are few studs in free agency anymore.

I wouldn't spend a ton in dollars or years on Choo. Not enough power; not enough speed.

 

[Chef99]

I'm a Yankee fan, but I'm not one of these fans who buys into the manufactured rivalry. I fully support the Mets and hope they do well. I agree that they're primed for a run like they had from 85-90. They just need to wisely spend a few shekels to bolster their lineup. I think Choo and Ellsbury would be a very good start this offseason. Take a stop-gap flier on Brendan Ryan as an all-glove/no-bat shortstop. Give Flores a full season at 1B to see if you have anything in him, but if he doesn't work out, find a huge bat who can play 1B for the big run in 2015. I disagree that Duda is a decent player, though. At least not in the NL. They should trade him to an AL team for an established reliever.

Ellsbury, CF
Legares, LF
Choo, RF
Wright, 3B
Flores, 1B
D'Arnaud, C
Murphy, 2B
Ryan, SS

Harvey
Wheeler
Gee
Niese
Hefner (until Syndergaard, Mejia or Montero is ready)

Solid club.

Good post, but I don't know about the "manufactured rivalry" part. Where i'm from in Jersey, you grew up either a Mets or Yankees fan, no in-between. And when I speak to my old Jersey gang, nothing's changed.

It's always been part of the fun for me.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

Turning this into a Mets thread, if they sign Ellsbury or Choo and then go out and move one or more of their stockpile of arms for a power bat in right they'll be in good shape.

Ike Davis is a wildcard for the Mets. He hit 30+ HRs last year, slumped terribly at the beginning of this year but is starting to get it back. If he can get his act together it goes a long way.

Keep in mind they have roughly an $80 million payroll this year and look to bump that up to $100 million next season, plus they have $60 million coming off the books, the Mets will be spending this year. Mets, in theory, are in great shape.

 

[GreenNickle]

Are the Yankees out of money?

 

[Nasty_Magician]

Are the Yankees out of money?

No, but I think they've realized the bottomless pit of money isn't quite so bottomless. Ton of bad contracts, older guys locked in for way more than they're worth, a new stadium they're still paying off, they've said they're trying to get under the luxury tax threshhold. They'll probably have to wait a year or 2 for some of these dead weight deals to expire before they return to being "The Yankees".

 

[BigDDude]

How do you do the "Quote" thing?

To reply directly to a certain post and poster, just go to that post, hit the quote button, and start typing.

However, to quote just a part of a post, you need to cut and paste the words you want, and start a new post. After pasting the words, you should see a small yellow option that look like a book above your taxt box.

That will let you quote. You will know you did it right, as it will have QUOTE before and after your now quoted text.

Hope this helps.

 

[GreenNickle]

Yankees went dark from the early 80's till 1995
Once they are able to ditch some bad contracts they will have the $ to sign guys that would love to be in pinstripes