is it ok to judge Lovie now?

[leomaz]

What is the consensus of how Lovie and Josh have the Bucs playing? Or does Lovie and Josh get a pass?

 

[toooverbearing]

I think it's fair to give coaches a year to settle in. As far as McCown... I think his play right now reflects better on Trestman than it does poorly on his current coach and coordinator. This is him regressing to his norm. This time last year, I think most of us thought McCown was pretty much exactly like this since this is how he had been most of his career and we were bidding with a high school for his services.

 

[NCChiFan]

Jerry Angelo was a bad GM, just bad, like real bad, bad bad bad.... bad.

 

[beardown07]

I think the change of guard at GM has had as much to do with the turn-around as anything. Jerry Angelo wouldn't know offensive talent if it sat on his face and said, giddyup. Pair him with Lovie and ya end up with a decade of futility on that side of the ball.

 

[beardown07]

beat me to it chifan

 

[Smart]

Jerry Angelo was a bad GM, just bad, like real bad, bad bad bad.... bad.

And yet he still built a roster which would have made the playoffs every year from 2005-2010 if we had a decent coaching staff. The three years in there where we had a competent DC (and still had a weak offensive staff), we went 35-13. If Lovie hadn't gotten rid of Babich, we could easily have duplicated that for the middle three years. And yes, our rosters in 2011 and 2012 would have been playoff-worthy if not for injuries.

I just don't understand the Angelo hate. Yes, he couldn't draft an OL to save his life. Actually, the whole offense outside of running back was weak for him. He still gave us a good enough defense and special teams to make us compete. And before Lovie's ego got big enough to force Rivera out (and yes, I know some posters here think the problem was Rivera's ego looking for a gig....I disagree), we did just that. When Lovie and his minion Babich gave reigns to Marinelli, we did it again. We know the problem wasn't the roster because when the coaches were good, the team did well.

I feel the same way about Lovie that I did about Bret Bielema. He is a good leader in terms of team culture. His players respect him, and he got free agents to come because of it. He did get guys to work hard and buy into what his staff was selling. The problem is that he just isn't a spectacular coach in the other respects. He has to have good assistants to win. And unlike Bielema, when he had a spectacular assistant, he forced him out.

That's unforgivable to me. I would have had his back if he kept Rivera around until he inevitably got a Head Coaching job. But to let ego cause him to leave (and to see Rivera's San Diego defense finish #1, while the Bears toiled in mediocrity) was frustrating. I'd rather have Trestman, who may not be the leader in terms of team culture, but is a great offensive mind.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Jerry Angelo was a bad GM, just bad, like real bad, bad bad bad.... bad.

Dead on. Lovie was a top coach. He did more with less.

 

[toooverbearing]

And yet he still built a roster which would have made the playoffs every year from 2005-2010 if we had a decent coaching staff. The three years in there where we had a competent DC (and still had a weak offensive staff), we went 35-13. If Lovie hadn't gotten rid of Babich, we could easily have duplicated that for the middle three years. And yes, our rosters in 2011 and 2012 would have been playoff-worthy if not for injuries.

I just don't understand the Angelo hate. Yes, he couldn't draft an OL to save his life. Actually, the whole offense outside of running back was weak for him. He still gave us a good enough defense and special teams to make us compete. And before Lovie's ego got big enough to force Rivera out (and yes, I know some posters here think the problem was Rivera's ego looking for a gig....I disagree), we did just that. When Lovie and his minion Babich gave reigns to Marinelli, we did it again. We know the problem wasn't the roster because when the coaches were good, the team did well.

I feel the same way about Lovie that I did about Bret Bielema. He is a good leader in terms of team culture. His players respect him, and he got free agents to come because of it. He did get guys to work hard and buy into what his staff was selling. The problem is that he just isn't a spectacular coach in the other respects. He has to have good assistants to win. And unlike Bielema, when he had a spectacular assistant, he forced him out.

That's unforgivable to me. I would have had his back if he kept Rivera around until he inevitably got a Head Coaching job. But to let ego cause him to leave (and to see Rivera's San Diego defense finish #1, while the Bears toiled in mediocrity) was frustrating. I'd rather have Trestman, who may not be the leader in terms of team culture, but is a great offensive mind.

Hate is pretty strong. You're right. But if we look at the team we just played, the Jets we can see the same thing, no? A great defense run by a great defensive mind. Every year they focus on getting the best defensive player they can in the draft (Angelo at least went offense once in a while). So they end up having a dynamite defense and keep wondering how good they could be if they just had a quarterback who could make a clutch play or a receiver who could dominate his match up. Well... if you don't make it a priority to get those guys then just quit wishing and own it that your offense will let you down. That is the Jets now and that was the Bears under Lovie/Angelo. You have to give Angelo credit though for at least TRYING to find a qb with Grossman, Orton and Cutler. But overall, the priority was the defense. Our OL stunk... our receivers stunk... our offense stunk.

 

[NCChiFan]

And yet he still built a roster which would have made the playoffs every year from 2005-2010 if we had a decent coaching staff. The three years in there where we had a competent DC (and still had a weak offensive staff), we went 35-13. If Lovie hadn't gotten rid of Babich, we could easily have duplicated that for the middle three years. And yes, our rosters in 2011 and 2012 would have been playoff-worthy if not for injuries.

I just don't understand the Angelo hate. Yes, he couldn't draft an OL to save his life. Actually, the whole offense outside of running back was weak for him. He still gave us a good enough defense and special teams to make us compete. And before Lovie's ego got big enough to force Rivera out (and yes, I know some posters here think the problem was Rivera's ego looking for a gig....I disagree), we did just that. When Lovie and his minion Babich gave reigns to Marinelli, we did it again. We know the problem wasn't the roster because when the coaches were good, the team did well.

I feel the same way about Lovie that I did about Bret Bielema. He is a good leader in terms of team culture. His players respect him, and he got free agents to come because of it. He did get guys to work hard and buy into what his staff was selling. The problem is that he just isn't a spectacular coach in the other respects. He has to have good assistants to win. And unlike Bielema, when he had a spectacular assistant, he forced him out.

That's unforgivable to me. I would have had his back if he kept Rivera around until he inevitably got a Head Coaching job. But to let ego cause him to leave (and to see Rivera's San Diego defense finish #1, while the Bears toiled in mediocrity) was frustrating. I'd rather have Trestman, who may not be the leader in terms of team culture, but is a great offensive mind.

He drafted some decent players, but given the quality of his over-all work, blind squirrel will find a nut every once in a while. He did such a bad job only a few of his picks are still on the roster and most of his packs by far, aren't even in the NFL anymore. No. He was awful at picking talent. It is looking like, Emery has drafted as many solid players in 3 years than JA in 10 and Emery had a bad first draft.

 

[anotheridiot]

I still think the bears had a chance in the superbowl if Lovie didnt take the defensive play calls away from Rivera. He will always need an assistant head coach who is the offensive coordinator.

McCown is the guy that should not make mistakes and allow the defense to win games. Its gonna take a year or two to get the players behind him.

 

[Mikefive]

McCown is the guy that should not make mistakes and allow the defense to win games. Its gonna take a year or two to get the players behind him.

I disagree that he needs a year or two. With the Bears, yeah... he was a journeyman who hadn't proven much before he came here. But in his first year with Marc Trestman, he played like a quality starter. He's an experienced backup who has recently demonstrated quality play last year before signing with the Bucs. His pedestrian performance is more about his coaching, offense and supporting cast than it is about him.

 

[nomoreshoop]

lol

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

I disagree that he needs a year or two. With the Bears, yeah... he was a journeyman who hadn't proven much before he came here. But in his first year with Marc Trestman, he played like a quality starter. He's an experienced backup who has recently demonstrated quality play last year before signing with the Bucs. His pedestrian performance is more about his coaching, offense and supporting cast than it is about him.

I think his success is more a showing of his coaching and the easy schedule that he faced last year. He played a bunch of cupcake defenses.

 

[richig07]

Three games in?


LOL… for a head coach? HEEEELLLL NO.

For a QB? Sure. Only because we all know this was who Josh McCown was. A career journeyman/backup. If you ever thought he was anything more, or if that last year was anything more than a combination of luck/a fluke/and a blessing of a defensive schedule for him… than you weren't paying attention.

 

[nomoreshoop]

Lovie had 4 former head coaches and one future head coach on his staff and still couldn't bring home the trophy.

 

[richig07]

I still think the bears had a chance in the superbowl if Lovie didnt take the defensive play calls away from Rivera. He will always need an assistant head coach who is the offensive coordinator.

McCown is the guy that should not make mistakes and allow the defense to win games. Its gonna take a year or two to get the players behind him.

Lol… what?

Josh McCown very well may not start another game for Tampa Bay. He's a god damned downright bad QB.

I said he wouldn't make it to game 10. Looks like the benching came earlier than expected.

 

[anotheridiot]

Lol… what?

Josh McCown very well may not start another game for Tampa Bay. He's a god damned downright bad QB.

I said he wouldn't make it to game 10. Looks like the benching came earlier than expected.

The last him should have been written Lovie. Seems everyone thinks I meant McCown. Thread was about lovie, should have been more clear.