Is Bochy one of the best managers ever?

[msgkings322]

Yes, says Jonah Keri:

Is Bruce Bochy One of the Best Managers in Baseball History? (Yes. Here?s Why.) «

 

[SF11704]

IMHO .... a very difficult call at best. Many people have varying opinions about managers and the role they play. I have mine. I personally think that managers do not 'win' games. they 'influence' games. It is the talent that wins games. You could be a great manager and have no talent to manage. You will most likely lose a lot of games. But I do believe that GREAT managers are really seen when they are put on a small stage and it is their 'ability' to influence the outcomes of games. This is where I feel Bochy is GREAT if not the greatest manager of my life time. When you reach the playoff the talent pools are generally very evenly matched when you consider the small number of games that are played in the individual series. If you can 'influence' the outcome of one of these games to fall in your direction you have to be considered as at least 'masterful'. This is the time that Bochy shines. This is where the ability to manipulate the little things gives you an edge in the long run. Or it can also backfire. make the wrong move and you may have influenced yourself into a loss. Taking Zinmmerman out with 2 out in the 9th will be questioned for quite some time.

 

[Mays-Fan]

If the Giants win 8 more games, Bochy will climb into another strata of managers. Three titles in five years? That doesn't happen often in any sport. There are only a handful of coaches/managers who can say that, and I'll bet a nickel every one is in their sport's Hall of Fame. Or will be.

 

[calsnowskier]

If the Giants win 8 more games, Bochy will climb into another strata of managers. Three titles in five years? That doesn't happen often in any sport. There are only a handful of coaches/managers who can say that, and I'll bet a nickel every one is in their sport's Hall of Fame. Or will be.

Lets looks at recent baseball...

Joe Torre is the only recent one, and Sparky, I think, is the last one. Both of those teams did the task with rosters full of HOFers. These Giants teams have MAYBE 2 HOFers (Posey and Bum, but it is WAY too early for either of them to be inducted yet).

Is that a factor? In basketball, Phil Jackson is looked at as a guru, but he has never done anything without having at least one of the greatest players of all time on his roster, with a STACKED roster behind the stars. Is he better than Poppa? Poppa has done it with apparently less talent.

In Football Walsh, did it with one of the more stacked 53s in the history of the game. Belichick has kept his team at the top with arguably just a system.

Is it even possible to compare? It seems that having the stars bring a whole different set of problems that takes a special type of coach (see the Dodgers this year). Would Boch still be successful if he had all egos in his locker room?

 

[msgkings322]

If the Giants win 8 more games, Bochy will climb into another strata of managers. Three titles in five years? That doesn't happen often in any sport. There are only a handful of coaches/managers who can say that, and I'll bet a nickel every one is in their sport's Hall of Fame. Or will be.

In baseball the only teams to pull off at least 3 titles in 5 years are:

1910, 1911, 1913 Philadelphia As (Connie Mack manager)

1912, 1915, 1916, 1918 Boston Red Sox (3 different managers)

Then the Yankees dominance:
1936-1939, 1941, 1943 (all Joe McCarthy)

1942, 1944, 1946 St Louis Cardinals (see the even numbered thing...) (2 managers)

Yankees again:
1947, 1949-1953, 1956, 1958, 1961-1962 (mostly Casey Stengel, the last 2 Ralph Houk)

Of course the 1972-1974 Oakland As (2 managers)

Finally the 1996, 1998-2000 Yankees (Joe Torre)

So it's happened a few times but mainly it's the Yankees. Slow day at work for me.

 

[msgkings322]

Lets looks at recent baseball...

Joe Torre is the only recent one, and Sparky, I think, is the last one. Both of those teams did the task with rosters full of HOFers. These Giants teams have MAYBE 2 HOFers (Posey and Bum, but it is WAY too early for either of them to be inducted yet).

Is that a factor? In basketball, Phil Jackson is looked at as a guru, but he has never done anything without having at least one of the greatest players of all time on his roster, with a STACKED roster behind the stars. Is he better than Poppa? Poppa has done it with apparently less talent.

In Football Walsh, did it with one of the more stacked 53s in the history of the game. Belichick has kept his team at the top with arguably just a system.

Is it even possible to compare? It seems that having the stars bring a whole different set of problems that takes a special type of coach (see the Dodgers this year). Would Boch still be successful if he had all egos in his locker room?

Sparky only won those 2 back to back titles with the Reds, took him a decade more to win with the Tigers.

Tired of the Phil Jackson hate. EVERY NBA champion team has AT LEAST 1 HOFer, and actually it's almost always 2 or more. Only team without any HOFers to win the NBA probably the 2004 Pistons (can't say I'm that familiar with the St Louis Hawks roster in 1957 however...). Which is why I think Larry Brown is the best basketball coach of all time (also won a NCAA title). But Jackson was a great coach.

 

[calsnowskier]

Sparky only won those 2 back to back titles with the Reds, took him a decade more to win with the Tigers.

Tired of the Phil Jackson hate. EVERY NBA champion team has AT LEAST 1 HOFer, and actually it's almost always 2 or more. Only team without any HOFers to win the NBA probably the 2004 Pistons (can't say I'm that familiar with the St Louis Hawks roster in 1957 however...). Which is why I think Larry Brown is the best basketball coach of all time (also won a NCAA title). But Jackson was a great coach.

I do not know nearly enough about bball to have been throwing hate. I was just referencing the different ways a coach can win it all. I was actually (intending) to show that it takes skill to manage an abundance of talent that not everyone can do (again, see the 2014 Dodgers).

 

[msgkings322]

I do not know nearly enough about bball to have been throwing hate. I was just referencing the different ways a coach can win it all. I was actually (intending) to show that it takes skill to manage an abundance of talent that not everyone can do (again, see the 2014 Dodgers).

Fair enough I was just reacting to what looked like yet another trotting out of the very tired and incorrect 'Jackson only won because MJ/Kobe' meme. EVERY NBA champ wins because they have at least 1, usually 2, HOF level players. Which is why the Warriors are probably close but no cigar in their current run. Is Curry a future HOFer? Debatable.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Lets looks at recent baseball...

Is it even possible to compare? It seems that having the stars bring a whole different set of problems that takes a special type of coach (see the Dodgers this year). Would Boch still be successful if he had all egos in his locker room?

I know you addressed the Dodgers as an example here, and did so correctly. On the other end of the spectrum is the also-hated Yankees. There is a lot more to them than simply the biggest payroll. There is discipline (eg, no facial hair allowed), and they pursue players who fit their mold team-wise. The press only covered the bombastic side of George Steinbrenner, but rarely spoke about the tremendous amount of charity work he and the Yankees were involved with. And when the press would ride him for firing his managers, what they didn't say is that the "fired" person was reassigned to another duty, not just kicked to the street, and sometimes brought back to their original role. I saw an interview with Torre back in their heyday, and they did not necessarily want the players with the biggest stats. He said they built their teams around guys like Posada, Paul O'Neill, Scott Brosius, Bernie Williams, and the like. Yeah they had Jeter, but he was home-grown. Plus, in that Derek Jeter commercial, the black and white that shows the leadup to his last game, I never realized there is a sign just when you leave the clubhouse to take the field that says (and I paraphrase) "I thank the good Lord every day that I'm a New York Yankee" - Joe DiMaggio. That may seem like a little thing, but it speaks volumes as to their culture.

I've never liked the Yankees, even though I grew up in New York, but I always respected them for what they stood for.

Bochy would probably fit in well as the Yankees manager. I don't want to give them any ideas. But I think they like Girardi. He's probably the new face of the Yankees, as much as anyone now. That's important to them.

 

[msgkings322]

I do not know nearly enough about bball to have been throwing hate. I was just referencing the different ways a coach can win it all. I was actually (intending) to show that it takes skill to manage an abundance of talent that not everyone can do (again, see the 2014 Dodgers).

Mattingly (who as a person is actually a really great, stand up guy) isn't just dealing with clubhouse stuff, he's also bad at the x's and o's though.

Bochy is HOF level because he runs a good clubhouse AND he knows the Xs and Os especially bullpen management as well as anyone in the game.

 

[Band of Brothers]

He has out managed the other manager in something like the last 8 or 9 playoff series.

2 World Series Championships

Hall of Fame Manager and if he brings another WS home to SF he can run for Mayor and win.

Bruce Bochy has been at his best when all the chips have been in the middle. Winner.

 

[Robotech]

On top of winning 2 World Series, he also got the Padres to the World Series. I think he should make the Hall of Fame.

 

[Davis_Mike]

Yes he is. Is there really any doubt? I thought he was a very good manager in SD before he got to SF. His time in SF has only improved my opinion of him.