Is Baker Mayfield a Bust?

[dtgold88]

Yes let's use the one example in the last 2 decades where a qb sat behind another legendary qb as the standard.

Kirk cousins battled with Colt Mccoy for reps.

Might be wrong, but think as a rookie he battled RG3.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I know part of it is the OL, but even as highly thought of as he now is across the league, I still think Chubb is underrated. Guy is just amazing IMO

Best running RB in the league. But..not in the pass game.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Might be wrong, but think as a rookie he battled RG3.

RG3 was the starter

When he went down Kirk and Colt went for the QB1 spot.

 

[dtgold88]

Best running RB in the league. But..not in the pass game.

wonder if they try him more in that area next season since possible Hunt could be gone. Guess they could use Johnson, Felton or the recent late round pick for that in 2023 if we lose Hunt.....and I think we will unless he's open to a serious team friendly deal.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Well...Henry and JT enter the chat with Chubb

 

[jarntt]

Best one I could find for ya, champ (at least most detailed)...and it does not answer the question that has you spooked. What makes you say he was just average in 2020? You gave no explanation since you made the comment above.

"champ". seriously dude, how full of yourself are you?

 

[dtgold88]

"champ". seriously dude, how full of yourself are you?

that also does not answer the question that has you spooked. What makes you say he was just average in 2020?

 

[jarntt]

that also does not answer the question that has you spooked. What makes you say he was just average in 2020?

Isn't my posting this what started the whole discussion? Why would I start another discussion that will lead you to commenting for the next 50 pages and cherry picking stats and the such but not actually reading what I write? I posted the most commonly used stats used to judge QBs a day or two ago. I'll stand on that. I don't think Baker is any good. I'm sorry that keeps you up at night.

Oh, and don't forget to ignore passer rating. I know how that one binds you up inside

What is this great 2020 season people keep pointing to for Baker? In 2020 he was:

18th in passing yards
Tied for 12th with four guys in TD passes
Very Good but not amazing at 8 Ints
17th in yards per attempt
30th in completion %
Tied with Gardner Minshaw at 15th best QB rating

And all of this with the top ranked (according to PFF) OL in the league and the 3rd best rushing offense in the league. Which basically mean he was in a great position and better have been at least or much better than NFL average if you want to be seen as having a good year. In what everyone is pointing to as this "great" year he was basically an average 2020 starting QB because of how many other good years there were that year.

 

[fastforward]

There's no doubt Eli will get into the HOF. His name will help him without question. But in todays pass-happy league his 57,000+ yards & 366 TD's are HOF numbers. And no 2x S.B. winning QB has ever been left out. Don't mention Jim Plunkett. He didn't win 100 games or multiple S.B. mvp's.

Eli Manning had 2 brief purple patches in his playing career where he was up there with the best of them. For the majority of his career he was average. He may get in, he may not, but with only 4 ProBowls he's behind multiple QBs with better credentials. I suspect he won't get in because it won't require too many of the eligible voters voting no to keep him out.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Isn't my posting this what started the whole discussion? Why would I start another discussion that will lead you to commenting for the next 50 pages and cherry picking stats and the such but not actually reading what I write? I posted the most commonly used stats used to judge QBs a day or two ago. I'll stand on that. I don't think Baker is any good. I'm sorry that keeps you up at night.

Oh, and don't forget to ignore passer rating. I know how that one binds you up inside

2020 was good enough that a GM wouldn’t be labeled insane for giving him an extension.

Playoff win and and a few shitty calls away from an AFC championship appearance

 

[fastforward]

2020 was good enough that a GM wouldn’t be labeled insane for giving him an extension.

Playoff win and and a few shitty calls away from an AFC championship appearance

I agree...but...Sam Darnold got the same extension, just saying.

Different GMs take widely different points of view.

 

[jarntt]

2020 was good enough that a GM wouldn’t be labeled insane for giving him an extension.

Playoff win and and a few shitty calls away from an AFC championship appearance

I agree with that. Especially since he was still young and even more improved was expected

 

[HaroldSeattle]

2020 was good enough that a GM wouldn’t be labeled insane for giving him an extension.

Playoff win and and a few shitty calls away from an AFC championship appearance

I agree with that and in fact was surprised one wasn't given to him.

 

[PDay8810]

I agree with that and in fact was surprised one wasn't given to him.

Browns upgraded

Any year now

 

[dtgold88]

I agree...but...Sam Darnold got the same extension, just saying.

Different GMs take widely different points of view.

That's fair, but Darnold never had a season close to Baker's 2020 season.

 

[dtgold88]

I agree with that and in fact was surprised one wasn't given to him.

Kind of was, too.

 

[Wamu]

Eli Manning had 2 brief purple patches in his playing career where he was up there with the best of them. For the majority of his career he was average. He may get in, he may not, but with only 4 ProBowls he's behind multiple QBs with better credentials. I suspect he won't get in because it won't require too many of the eligible voters voting no to keep him out.

I think he'll get in for the reasons I mentioned. But if he doesn't I can understand why. After all he's the definition of mediocre.

These two games didn't have the same significance for the league. But Joe Namath is basically in the HOF because of S.B. III. Eli and the Giants stopped Patriots immortality.

 

[dtgold88]

Isn't my posting this what started the whole discussion? Why would I start another discussion that will lead you to commenting for the next 50 pages and cherry picking stats and the such but not actually reading what I write? I posted the most commonly used stats used to judge QBs a day or two ago. I'll stand on that. I don't think Baker is any good. I'm sorry that keeps you up at night.

Oh, and don't forget to ignore passer rating. I know how that one binds you up inside

Forgot that was your post (and didn't see it when looking through them again) but recall it now. My bad and apologies.

Never ignored passer rating. Just think it's pretty obvious a system where one has to actually watch each play (and what the QB did to help or hurt the team on that play) would be a better system based on 4-5 factors where one wouldn't even need to see any of the plays by the QB or anyone else.

QBR is a cherry picked stat? It takes into account every stat, did the QB need help or get hurt by his teammates, how much the play really mattered (meaning an end of half hail mary INT wont matter as much as an INT on last drive needing a score), etc.

 

[fastforward]

I think he'll get in for the reasons I mentioned. But if he doesn't I can understand why. After all he's the definition of mediocre.

These two games didn't have the same significance for the league. But Joe Namath is basically in the HOF because of S.B. III. Eli and the Giants stopped Patriots immortality.

The problem will be the HoF entry numbers. The current average is around 6.5 players per year so 65 players over 10 years, or 100 players over 15 years. Eli Manning is behind Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, & Wilson. Rivers has 8 ProBowls and Mahomes is on course to become a HoF player. Other players will emerge so Manning shouldn't be on the ballot for quite a while.

 

[Wamu]

The problem will be the HoF entry numbers. The current average is around 6.5 players per year so 65 players over 10 years, or 100 players over 15 years. Eli Manning is behind Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, & Wilson. Rivers has 8 ProBowls and Mahomes is on course to become a HoF player. Other players will emerge so Manning shouldn't be on the ballot for quite a while.

Not disagreeing he's behind those QB's. But I still say he gets in. Here's something interesting about Rivers. He started more playoff games (12 / 5-7) at QB without a S.B. trip than anyone else. That's not good.