Is Baker Mayfield a Bust?

[jarntt]

QBR has kind of caught up and passed the antiquated passer rating system by anyone who really wants to know what a QB did to help (or not help) his team.

But, sure, if you want to say you don't want to understand how to better grade a QB without saying you don't want to understand how to better grade a QB then have at it.

And Mr passive aggressive gets his feelings hurt again because not everything is 100% glowing about his team...

Again. I was posting the most popular stats people use to grade QBs (read that 100 times if you need to. Heck, I'll write it 100 times if that's what it takes) so that it wouldn't lead to anyone saying I was trying to skew the results by cherry picking stats...then you come along and of course the expected happens. You want to know my opinion? It's that Baker stinks and I use my eyes to tell me that. No flawed PFF stats and no ratings or any other stats whatsoever needed because they are all indeed flawed in ways. I'd be shocked if he was a starting QB in 3 years. But again, that's opinion based and I wanted to stick with facts that no one could argue with.

If it makes you feel better leave that stat off and re-read the original post. Makes no difference to me because with or without it he was still average in his "career year".

 

[wilwhite]

I do think yards combined with TDs and Interceptions give you an accurate picture. Carr had more yards but way fewer TDs and more interceptions then the others.

ANY/A.

Includes the effect of sacks.

 

[wilwhite]

In his best year he wasn't top 10. In a bad year he isn't even an NFL starter level QB and his trade market pretty much proved that NFL teams agree.
Car is paying him the same cap hit as Cle is paying Brissett.

Mayfield will outperform Brissett by a pretty wide margin.

Mayfield may be a mediocre NFL starter, but Brissett is a terrible starter.

 

[Wamu]

Mayfield will outperform Brissett by a pretty wide margin.

Mayfield may be a mediocre NFL starter, but Brissett is a terrible starter.

Well Brissett is no Johnny Manziel. So the Browns got that going for them.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

QBR is a good measurement but it is subjective. Where as things like passing yards are not. Regardless if a ball is tipped or only thrown a yard that goes for 100. It is what it is and it's how and what all QBs have been measured against. Good or bad.

Using the Human Spinner's example, was the ball thrown directly to that DB and tipped or did the DB make a great play? Just one example of it being subjective.

 

[dtgold88]

I understand it just fine just don’t think it works.

If you think passer rating is a better measure you don't understand it. Or you don't know what passer rating comes from.

 

[dtgold88]

Well Brissett is no Johnny Manziel. So the Browns got that going for them.

which is nice?

 

[dtgold88]

QBR is a good measurement but it is subjective. Where as things like passing yards are not. Regardless if a ball is tipped or only thrown a yard that goes for 100. It is what it is and it's how and what all QBs have been measured against. Good or bad.

Using the Human Spinner's example, was the ball thrown directly to that DB and tipped or did the DB make a great play? Just one example of it being subjective.

QBR actually looks into each play and credits or does not credit the QB for all aspects of the play. If the DB tips the ball on a ball thrown right to him to the WR, passer rating says the QB made a good pass. QBR does not.

You can sign in to the group that does not understand what QBR and passer rating really measures.

 

[dtgold88]

And Mr passive aggressive gets his feelings hurt again because not everything is 100% glowing about his team...

Again. I was posting the most popular stats people use to grade QBs (read that 100 times if you need to. Heck, I'll write it 100 times if that's what it takes) so that it wouldn't lead to anyone saying I was trying to skew the results by cherry picking stats...then you come along and of course the expected happens. You want to know my opinion? It's that Baker stinks and I use my eyes to tell me that. No flawed PFF stats and no ratings or any other stats whatsoever needed because they are all indeed flawed in ways. I'd be shocked if he was a starting QB in 3 years. But again, that's opinion based and I wanted to stick with facts that no one could argue with.

If it makes you feel better leave that stat off and re-read the original post. Makes no difference to me because with or without it he was still average in his "career year".

feelings hurt and passive aggressive? Glowing about my team?

Mr. Reading Comprehension Challenged, in fact, I agree Baker has been average in his career. I'd add incredibly inconsistent. Is that glowing about my team (FYI, if you didn't know, Baker does not play for my team). However, one year he played really well was 2020. Not really debatable.

I'm gonna say the most comical thing you said in your rant (and there are many to choose from) was you use the eye test. I mean, you are basing your "findings" on what is most popular and it happens to be a measure where your eyes were not needed in passer rating. You could figure it out just by seeing the simple stats and passer rating can be figured out just with the simple stats (yards, attempts, TDs and INTs)

QBR? multiple people look at every player on every play and help determine what the QB did to help or hurt what happened on the play.

Once again, you managed to say you don't understand what QBR and passer rating are without saying you don't understand what QBR and passer rating are.

 

[dtgold88]

ANY/A.

Includes the effect of sacks.

I definitely like this better than passer rating...but am I correct in saying it only says if there was a sack and not why it happened (bad OL, QB held ball too long, etc)?

 

[dtgold88]

Mayfield will outperform Brissett by a pretty wide margin.

Mayfield may be a mediocre NFL starter, but Brissett is a terrible starter.

Agree. I like Brissett as a backup. Maybe he can start if watson misses some time. Browns could be in trouble, though, I think, if watson is out more than 6 games.

 

[jarntt]

feelings hurt and passive aggressive? Glowing about my team?

Mr. Reading Comprehension Challenged, in fact, I agree Baker has been average in his career. I'd add incredibly inconsistent. Is that glowing about my team (FYI, if you didn't know, Baker does not play for my team). However, one year he played really well was 2020. Not really debatable.

I'm gonna say the most comical thing you said in your rant (and there are many to choose from) was you use the eye test. I mean, you are basing your "findings" on what is most popular and it happens to be a measure where your eyes were not needed in passer rating. You could figure it out just by seeing the simple stats and passer rating can be figured out just with the simple stats (yards, attempts, TDs and INTs)

QBR? multiple people look at every player on every play and help determine what the QB did to help or hurt what happened on the play.

Once again, just say you don't understand what QBR and passer rating are without saying you don't understand what QBR and passer rating are.

seriously are you just unable to read?
I could care less about passer rating or QBR. I, again, simply picked the most commonly used stats to show that even in his best year he was nothing more than NFL average. Why do you keep bringing up the QBR and passer rating comparison/discussion as if I’m stating one is better than the other or have even professed my thoughts about either? I’ve not once commented on how good i think either is in this discussion nor whether I even prefer one to the other. in some bizarre way you are arguing as if I’ve made a claim about either of them. It’s completely irrelevant to everything other than your usual attempt to steer the discussion a certain way For some reason. Again, remove passer rating from the list of most commonly used stats that I posted if you for some reason feel the need to. With or without it he was only average in 2020.

 

[Dude]

LOL. Serious discussion going on about how much is mediocre. This much? That much?

Dear Season:

Start will you please.
This has been a long and tedious off season.
Start season please.

 

[SteelersPride]

No one will never say die like @dtgold88

 

[wilwhite]

I definitely like this better than passer rating...but am I correct in saying it only says if there was a sack and not why it happened (bad OL, QB held ball too long, etc)?

Correct.

But all those other things shade into subjectivity. ESPN keeps revising how they calculate QBR and they don’t let people know what the formula is.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

QBR actually looks into each play and credits or does not credit the QB for all aspects of the play. If the DB tips the ball on a ball thrown right to him to the WR, passer rating says the QB made a good pass. QBR does not.

You can sign in to the group that does not understand what QBR and passer rating really measures.

Join the hooked on phonics group. You're hidden agenda doesn't allow you to comprehend English very well.

What part of what that isn't subjective?

Thanks for playing, but back to summer school for you.

 

[michaeljordan_fan]

Join the hooked on phonics group. You're hidden agenda doesn't allow you to comprehend English very well.

What part of what that isn't subjective?

Thanks for playing, but back to summer school for you.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Thanks, no excuse but I was in a rush.

Comprehension, spelling and grammAr are three different things.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I think we've all pretty much agreed that Baker wasn't going to be elite, consistent top 10 level qb. Arguing as to what middle of the road means is splitting hairs.

The 2021 Browns could have easily won 11 games with 2020 level Baker play. Now as to regard what part that injury played... obviously it played some. But it's also odd how he looked fine against Cincy but was then putrid against Minnesota in week 4.

But his entire second half was mostly awful and his play clearly cost the team games.

The Browns didn't want to risk another year of elite OL play (of which Baker took so many bad sacks it was insane) on him.

That matters more than what we got to say.

 

[dtgold88]

seriously are you just unable to read?
I could care less about passer rating or QBR. I, again, simply picked the most commonly used stats to show that even in his best year he was nothing more than NFL average. Why do you keep bringing up the QBR and passer rating comparison/discussion as if I’m stating one is better than the other or have even professed my thoughts about either? I’ve not once commented on how good i think either is in this discussion nor whether I even prefer one to the other. in some bizarre way you are arguing as if I’ve made a claim about either of them. It’s completely irrelevant to everything other than your usual attempt to steer the discussion a certain way For some reason. Again, remove passer rating from the list of most commonly used stats that I posted if you for some reason feel the need to. With or without it he was only average in 2020.

Yes, you picked passer rating over QBR as I said.

On what do you base him being average in 2020?