Injury Hit Parade (long rant)

[jjc2009]

Between the academic suspensions and injuries last year and the injuries this year, I guess 10 wins is commendable. But this is just the absolute shittiest luck I have ever seen:

Season-Enders: Jarron Jones, Shawn Crawford, Malik Zaire, Tarean Folston, Durham Smythe (these are just the starters), Drue Tranquill, Avery Sevastian (technically his wasn't season-ending but hasn't played since injury). Equanenemeos St. Brown (will be Fuller's replacement and standout on special teams).

Guys who have missed/will miss significant time due to injuryaniel Cage, CJ Prosise, Keivarre Russell.

These are not bit players. They are for the most part starters/major contributors.

Some injuries are freakish and can't be avoided but this seems beyond the law of averages to me. There needs to be some serious examination of conditioning practices. A lot of these (Folston, Tranquil, Jones) MCL injuries with little to no contact. We are fortunate to have the depth we'd but it's hard to envision a championship run with this many wounded.

I hope Kelly has them ready for the game of their lives next week. We might get some players back for a playoff run if we can pull it off.

 

[KnuteRoc]

When was the new turf put in?

Might there be a correlation to the turf? It'd take a lot of painstaking research to even arrive at results that point to the turf as a contributor, much less the major causative factor.

But it seems to me that since ND put in the turf over the natural grass that injuries have been at a higher rate, but I can't be sure of that, nor that they're all associated with the turf. For example, if playing for long periods of time (years) on grass has the same affect on limbs and joints and ligaments as turf. That wouldn't be so easy to tell unless that research has been ongoing already.

This new turf, I don't know, what does it feel like to be tackled on it compared to natural grass? What does it feel like to cut on it? Does it have different distribution of shock/impact to the body versus grass?

I suppose then you'd add conditioning and perhaps the frequency of that, then have to compare it to a similar frequency related to playing on grass. Since most teams play a combination of grass and turf games a year, it might even be harder to determine correlation at all. Like, not all injuries occur on a field of turf, but could we even determine if the frequency is comparable to grass injuries and their severity, etc?

It'd be very interesting to see the results if that could be done with a high probability of confidence in the results.

When I joined the military, at first we ran a lot in boots, the crappy ones they issue, not the aftermarket ones like Jungle Boots, or Jump-boots, version one or version two (version two has Vibram soles). In the first month of service I had shin-splints from running on concrete in those G.I. issued boots. The pain was excruciating. Later as we went to typical P.T. training in running/athletic shoes versus boots, I never had a problem with shin-splints again, ever. I was always an active kid, I rode my bike (BMX, then 10-speed type bikes) from around 12-13 through 18. I'd ride 30 miles roundtrip a day from our local bike trail starting point that led all the way out to the dam and back, plus riding around town to get to either my own house or my friend's houses. So entering service I never felt I was out of shape, though my endurance was pretty good. I also ran on Drake University's track at their stadium when I was a kid (Where the Drake Relays are held) and never had a problem. Correlation? Damn skippy. You don't run in unbroken-in boots, especially those boots. When I was at my duty station I purchased a pair of Corcoran II's. Never had a problem though the runs in boots had nearly ceased entirely by then. I also had a pair of Corcoran I's (the parade boot) I used for show/inspections. I also had a pair of Matterhorn's for the cold weather. Never wore another pair of issued boots, ever. We ran on concrete, day in and day out. Now I don't like to run, I'd rather ride like I used to, less strain on the knees and joints.

I'm wondering if there could be issues related to that in football with having cement under the turf rather than who knows how many feet of dirt like on old grass?

 

[jjc2009]

When was the new turf put in?

Might there be a correlation to the turf? It'd take a lot of painstaking research to even arrive at results that point to the turf as a contributor, much less the major causative factor.

But it seems to me that since ND put in the turf over the natural grass that injuries have been at a higher rate, but I can't be sure of that, nor that they're all associated with the turf. For example, if playing for long periods of time (years) on grass has the same affect on limbs and joints and ligaments as turf. That wouldn't be so easy to tell unless that research has been ongoing already.

This new turf, I don't know, what does it feel like to be tackled on it compared to natural grass? What does it feel like to cut on it? Does it have different distribution of shock/impact to the body versus grass?

I suppose then you'd add conditioning and perhaps the frequency of that, then have to compare it to a similar frequency related to playing on grass. Since most teams play a combination of grass and turf games a year, it might even be harder to determine correlation at all. Like, not all injuries occur on a field of turf, but could we even determine if the frequency is comparable to grass injuries and their severity, etc?

It'd be very interesting to see the results if that could be done with a high probability of confidence in the results.

When I joined the military, at first we ran a lot in boots, the crappy ones they issue, not the aftermarket ones like Jungle Boots, or Jump-boots, version one or version two (version two has Vibram soles). In the first month of service I had shin-splints from running on concrete in those G.I. issued boots. The pain was excruciating. Later as we went to typical P.T. training in running/athletic shoes versus boots, I never had a problem with shin-splints again, ever. I was always an active kid, I rode my bike (BMX, then 10-speed type bikes) from around 12-13 through 18. I'd ride 30 miles roundtrip a day from our local bike trail starting point that led all the way out to the dam and back, plus riding around town to get to either my own house or my friend's houses. So entering service I never felt I was out of shape, though my endurance was pretty good. I also ran on Drake University's track at their stadium when I was a kid (Where the Drake Relays are held) and never had a problem. Correlation? Damn skippy. You don't run in unbroken-in boots, especially those boots. When I was at my duty station I purchased a pair of Corcoran II's. Never had a problem though the runs in boots had nearly ceased entirely by then. I also had a pair of Corcoran I's (the parade boot) I used for show/inspections. I also had a pair of Matterhorn's for the cold weather. Never wore another pair of issued boots, ever. We ran on concrete, day in and day out. Now I don't like to run, I'd rather ride like I used to, less strain on the knees and joints.

I'm wondering if there could be issues related to that in football with having cement under the turf rather than who knows how many feet of dirt like on old grass?

Turf was new this year. Doesn't explain last years' injuries or Zaire's injury for example. I think the field turf is a little less forgiving than grass but more than AstroTurf. I am more concerned with joint and ligament strength and conditioning to handle the extra stresses.

By way of comparison, they're doing something right at Stanford. They've had next to no injuries for several years now.

 

[KnuteRoc]

You were saying JJC?

 

[jjc2009]

You were saying JJC?

Que pasa?

 

[KnuteRoc]

Que pasa?

Oh nothing, you must've edited, at first I only saw a quote with no other text... figured you were editing. I don't like the 10 minute edit limit. Sometimes I make typos that then aren't corrected. I guess they're emphasizing proofreading, but who has time for that on a message board?!

Maybe it does have to do with conditioning and/or proper stretching. The ankle stuff like Prosise and Zaire, not much you can do about that if you're fighting for extra yards instead of flopping on the ground as soon as you're greeted with contact. Folston's injury though... seemed weird, as was the kid who jumped and came down to an injury (Tranquill?), those might be more in line with what you're suggesting?

 

[jjc2009]

Oh nothing, you must've edited, at first I only saw a quote with no other text... figured you were editing. I don't like the 10 minute edit limit. Sometimes I make typos that then aren't corrected. I guess they're emphasizing proofreading, but who has time for that on a message board?!

Maybe it does have to do with conditioning and/or proper stretching. The ankle stuff like Prosise and Zaire, not much you can do about that if you're fighting for extra yards instead of flopping on the ground as soon as you're greeted with contact. Folston's injury though... seemed weird, as was the kid who jumped and came down to an injury (Tranquill?), those might be more in line with what you're suggesting?

Yeah doing it on my phone sometimes screws it up. Just got in under the wire to fix it.

 

[craigk217]

Brought this topic up last year when our guys were dropping like flies ... strength & conditioning coach prob?

You would like to believe this must have occurred to BK and caused him to 'look into it' ... right?

It is uncanny how many players we lose to injury (the freakish type). Coincidence, bad luck, bad timing ...

 

[bbirish73]

Team that made it to National Championship was healthy. If they can get ever get to that level again then I think ND will be back.

 

[jjc2009]

Team that made it to National Championship was healthy. If they can get ever get to that level again then I think ND will be back.

Actually part of the reason they were so thoroughly embarrassed was many were walking wounded and playing hurt. The 2012 team didn't have the depth of this squad. Kelly said they did almost no contact and it showed in the game. Nobody was tackling.

 

[jjc2009]

Russel has a broken leg. 6-8 weeks. Outside chance he can be back if in NC game but I am sure he'll be rusty.

 

[CreepCreep2014]

Other teams play on these types of field and have had far less injuries. Like some of you have said. Time to look at the S/C coaches on this team. Something is up.