If we get our suspended players back..

[Lillyliverd]

NCAA and ND are not America.

 

[Irish7478]

I disagree. These kids missed 5 games already and looks like it will be 6 and if they didn't do anything it looks bad on their part and bad for recruits. It shouldn't have took this long. 1-2 games ok but 6. Thats half the season especially if they are innocent. Remember this is america. U are innocent until proven guilty.

I don't know how long one of these investigations normally takes, but I don't ever recall ND suspending players for something like this for a set number of games. It's usually for a semester or a year. I don't know if these kids are guilty, and yes they are innocent until proven guilty but letting them play, and then determining that they are guilty will only result in ND forfeiting the games they played in. I'd rather be 5-0 without them than 0-5 because we let one of them (who is later deemed guilty) play.

And even in the legal system, while you are innocent until proven guilty, you sit in jail until the trial is completed. I hope that they are all found innocent, but I really don't want to spend the next three years on probation for one of these guys, especially since I think next year is going to the year for ND.

 

[bbirish73]

Better safe than sorry.

 

[purguy12]

I understand that but it shouldn't have taken this long. That's the thing. U are playing with kids futures. Think about it the investigation was done by week 1 then took several weeks to set up a committee. They should had a committee set up from the start.


This thing shouldn't have taken this long.

 

[whywork2]

That's my biggest contention, it has simply taken way too long to get resolved.

 

[Irish7478]

I honestly have no idea how long a process like this takes with a normal student. It seems like this is taking forever, but this might be standard operating procedure for this. What I don't want to see happen is that ND is seen as changing the process because these kids are athletes and jumping to find them innocent or allowing them to play before a final decision has been rendered.

Hopefully they are found to be innocent, but I doubt this whole process would have happened if there wasn't some pretty compelling evidence. If the delay has been due to the students failing to supply the school with e-mails or other evidence, that's their fault, if it's that it took too long to get the committee together, that's ND's fault. But in any event, I don't want to screw up the next three years because we jump the gun on this.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

I'd rather suspend them for the year and be done with it, and not risk any further penalties.

I mean come on, we're 5-0 without them. And yeah, it would be nice to have them back, but we certainly don't need them.

 

[jjc2009]

I'd rather suspend them for the year and be done with it, and not risk any further penalties.

I mean come on, we're 5-0 without them. And yeah, it would be nice to have them back, but we certainly don't need them.

I agree on the one hand in that its forced them to bring along younger players quicker who will have more experience going forward in the future. On the other hand, as the season wears on, injuries, especially on the DL and secondary, where we are missing these guys the most, tend to creep up. We still have Navy yet to play and there's always a risk of our DL getting injured from the constant cut blocks, or at the very least, getting beat up pretty good where you'd want more depth.

I like the chemistry that the guys have now, and I wouldn't want them to jump right in if cleared today, and that's a mighty big "if," but its hard to say I wouldn't want them available at all if needed.

What I would really like to know is that if they are lost for the year, whether they will stick it out. Ishaq might be done with eligibility, although I guess this could count as a redshirt, same for Rusell, Hardy and Daniels. Kendall Moore would be done no matter what (5th year). Would be nice to know Russell would choose to stay next year if welcomed back, because Riggs will be gone. I think Davaris has always had a bit of a strained relationship with Kelly and is looking to bail if he's lost for the year, and I think even if he's back for part of the year, he won't stick around. I have a feeling this whole thing has screwed him more than the others because he was banking on a big year to get his draft stock up. Probably explains why he and his dad (who has never had a problem being critical of ND) have been the most vocal during this process.

 

[poewelch84]

From what I have read the reasoning for it taking so long is because it involved so many departments and students compared to the normal violation. I'm not sure I buy that but that is what they are claiming.

 

[craigk217]

^ Heard the same thing.

 

[purguy12]

I'd rather suspend them for the year and be done with it, and not risk any further penalties.

I mean come on, we're 5-0 without them. And yeah, it would be nice to have them back, but we certainly don't need them.

Ok they miss the year and they are found innocent and then ND has a law suite. Then ND has another head ache. If I were those kids and was found innocent I would sue the school.

 

[bbirish73]

Ok they miss the year and they are found innocent and then ND has a law suite. Then ND has another head ache. If I were those kids and was found innocent I would sue the school.

I doubt any are truly innocent......if they were there wouldn't be an investigation in the first place. Can you prove they are guilty is the bottom line.

 

[Irish7478]

Ok they miss the year and they are found innocent and then ND has a law suite. Then ND has another head ache. If I were those kids and was found innocent I would sue the school.

Sue the school for what? They aren't paying tuition, room and board is still available. All but Moore have eligibility left. And I can't see him claming that this action cost him a spot in the nfl. Would this really be any different from Greg Bryant suing ND because he should be starting over Cam McDaniel.

If they want to transfer and play right away, they'd have to sue the NCAA and not ND. The bottom line is that I see ND's issues happening if we resond too quickly, not too slowly.

 

[KnuteRoc]

I understand that but it shouldn't have taken this long. That's the thing. U are playing with kids futures. Think about it the investigation was done by week 1 then took several weeks to set up a committee. They should had a committee set up from the start.


This thing shouldn't have taken this long.

I'm going to have to interject on this one. The university IMHO is not 'playing' with these kids' futures, it's actually the other way around. Did the University get accused of academic impropriety or did some students? I get what you're trying to say here and you may be correct from a what's a reasonable timeframe but in my view they put the University in a position where they had to choose between the few and the greater good and we all know as Spock said, the needs of many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one... sure it's just a movie but, it's still applicable. The UND is bigger than any one athlete, it always has been, this is why they still don't put player's names on the jersey backs.

If the point still hasn't made it home... it's like being mad at the cops and the lawyers for making you wait while they determine if they'll charge you with a crime or crimes for something you did. You did something that ended up requiring an investigation into your conduct, while you may be innocent there's a much bigger picture here. Remember, Bush didn't pay for USC's greasing his palm, future players did. The players that have ABSOLUTELY done no wrong as to NOT require an investigation into themselves are at this point MORE important than whether 1 of the 6 did or didn't.

 

[Irish7478]

Most recent rumor is that all five are gone. Hope it's not true, but probably what most of us expected.

 

[poewelch84]

that would suck if the rumor is true

 

[idseer]

I'm going to have to interject on this one. The university IMHO is not 'playing' with these kids' futures, it's actually the other way around. Did the University get accused of academic impropriety or did some students? I get what you're trying to say here and you may be correct from a what's a reasonable timeframe but in my view they put the University in a position where they had to choose between the few and the greater good and we all know as Spock said, the needs of many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one... sure it's just a movie but, it's still applicable. The UND is bigger than any one athlete, it always has been, this is why they still don't put player's names on the jersey backs.

If the point still hasn't made it home... it's like being mad at the cops and the lawyers for making you wait while they determine if they'll charge you with a crime or crimes for something you did. You did something that ended up requiring an investigation into your conduct, while you may be innocent there's a much bigger picture here. Remember, Bush didn't pay for USC's greasing his palm, future players did. The players that have ABSOLUTELY done no wrong as to NOT require an investigation into themselves are at this point MORE important than whether 1 of the 6 did or didn't.

why can't people see that this is what the ncaa did to penn state. the future team did nothing to deserve the penalties. the team, the school and the community all paid for what 1 man did (that didn't even have anything to do with the team or games) because 3 others (tim curly, AD ... gary schultz, senior VP and psu president graham spanier) didn't do anything about it!
so I agree that whatever time it takes for ND to figure it all out is worth waiting on.

 

[jjc2009]

Pete Sampson of Irish Illustrated (rivals) reported that his "sources close to players" indicate that all 5 are gone for the year. Speculation still persists that some may be permanently gone. He's followed up by stating some of the. 5 have already gotten their letters from the university.

 

[NDHoosier101]

Pete Sampson of Irish Illustrated (rivals) reported that his "sources close to players" indicate that all 5 are gone for the year. Speculation still persists that some may be permanently gone. He's followed up by stating some of the. 5 have already gotten their letters from the university.

Makes sense. At least it's over. Wonder where they're going to transfer.

 

[bbirish73]

I'm not believing anything until the major news outlets say the same thing. You actually think they would transfer or try to get drafted?