Ichiro 4000 hits!

[Cloud]

Congrats to Ichiro on his 4000 professional career hits. He is the only player to have the most hits during the 13 year MLB time span. Next up for him is try to accomplish getting 3000 hits in the MLB with less than about 300 to go, I think he'll do it.

After he retires, I have no doubt he will be in the Mariners HOF and goes to Cooperstown as a Mariners.

Congrats Ichiro!

 

[USCDoom]

Best hitter I have ever seen...

 

[blstoker]

Congrats to Ichiro on his 4000 professional career hits. He is the only player to have the most hits during the 13 year MLB time span. Next up for him is try to accomplish getting 3000 hits in the MLB with less than about 300 to go, I think he'll do it.

After he retires, I have no doubt he will be in the Mariners HOF and goes to Cooperstown as a Mariners.

Congrats Ichiro!

Big whoop, Japanese baseball is no better than AAA, and to consider his minor league equivalent into his stats is ridiculous. It's an impressive number to be sure, but it's also creating a lot of hype for an accomplishment that has no real meaning. I'll hold my breath form when/if he makes it to 3000, that will be an accomplishment worth getting excited about, especially since he would have had to do it in a relatively short time.

As for 4000 career professional hits, that puts him ranked 5th all-time:

Pete Rose - 4683
Ty Cobb - 4355
Hank Aaron - 4095
Jigger Statz - 4093
Stan Musial - 4001
Ichiro Suzuki - 4000
Tris Speaker - 3965
Carl Yastrzemski - 3782
Honus Wagner - 3682
Smead Jolley - 3564

 

[blstoker]

I mean 6th all time (hadn't found Jigger Statz's stats at the point I typed it and forgot to edit ranking when I put Statz in there).

 

[Cloud]

Big whoop, Japanese baseball is no better than AAA, and to consider his minor league equivalent into his stats is ridiculous. It's an impressive number to be sure, but it's also creating a lot of hype for an accomplishment that has no real meaning. I'll hold my breath form when/if he makes it to 3000, that will be an accomplishment worth getting excited about, especially since he would have had to do it in a relatively short time.

As for 4000 career professional hits, that puts him ranked 5th all-time:

Pete Rose - 4683
Ty Cobb - 4355
Hank Aaron - 4095
Jigger Statz - 4093
Stan Musial - 4001
Ichiro Suzuki - 4000
Tris Speaker - 3965
Carl Yastrzemski - 3782
Honus Wagner - 3682
Smead Jolley - 3564

Considering he started his career late here in the MLB, are you trying to tell me that he won't be no where close to 4000 hits had he started here earlier? I don't believe that at all, so you'll have to convince me otherwise.

The fact that he started here late, but is still the only player to get the amounts of hits he had in a 13 year time span probably suggest to me, he'd be well over 3000 hits if we take away his 9 seasons in Japan and have him play in the majors instead.

There are also arguments that it's easier to hit in Japan than in the majors, but yet, during his 13 seasons here in the majors, he still has almost 3000 hits despite starting late.

 

[blstoker]

Considering he started his career late here in the MLB, are you trying to tell me that he won't be no where close to 4000 hits had he started here earlier? I don't believe that at all, so you'll have to convince me otherwise.

The fact that he started here late, but is still the only player to get the amounts of hits he had in a 13 year time span probably suggest to me, he'd be well over 3000 hits if we take away his 9 seasons in Japan and have him play in the majors instead.

There are also arguments that it's easier to hit in Japan than in the majors, but yet, during his 13 seasons here in the majors, he still has almost 3000 hits despite starting late.

Irrelevant. There is no way to prove what may have happened had he chosen to come over to the U.S. earlier. Japan leagues are so difficult that the legendary Matt Murton (with his 272 career MLB hits) broke Ichio's single season Japanese hits record in his first season over there (2010).

Ichiro is a rare talent, and the only Japanese player to come over and have long term success in the Majors. Good for him. That doesn't mean that if he'd come to the U.S. in 1992 that he would have been able to move his way up the minors with relative speed. There isn't even any evidence that had he not had his success in Japan that coaches in the U.S. wouldn't have tried to change his swing and hence made him less successful and possibly he never even makes it. Who knows what really would have happened in that alternate reality, but in this one, he spent 9 years in Japan, and racked up 1278 hits against inferior opponents. Sadaharu Oh is not the home run king, and Ichiro does not get credit for 4000 hits.

 

[johnfree63]

Big whoop, Japanese baseball is no better than AAA, and to consider his minor league equivalent into his stats is ridiculous. It's an impressive number to be sure, but it's also creating a lot of hype for an accomplishment that has no real meaning. I'll hold my breath form when/if he makes it to 3000, that will be an accomplishment worth getting excited about, especially since he would have had to do it in a relatively short time.

As for 4000 career professional hits, that puts him ranked 5th all-time:

Pete Rose - 4683
Ty Cobb - 4355
Hank Aaron - 4095
Jigger Statz - 4093
Stan Musial - 4001
Ichiro Suzuki - 4000
Tris Speaker - 3965
Carl Yastrzemski - 3782
Honus Wagner - 3682
Smead Jolley - 3564

You just showed that only 5 players (soon to be 4) have more professional hits then Ichiro and still argue that the # means nothing.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Personally, I think it's a big accomplishment regardless of the fuss about mlb/japan. I mean...it won't go down as an MLB Milestone so all the stat geeks and mlb historians calm down lol.

But let's not disregard it like it's not a big deal. This is Ichiro we're talking about here...not some random joe schmo. If he would've started his career in the major leagues...there's a very good chance that even if he was only average Ichiro...that his numbers would have him very close if not at 4000 hits right now

 

[blstoker]

You just showed that only 5 players (soon to be 4) have more professional hits then Ichiro and still argue that the # means nothing.

Exactly. Jigger Statz isn't in the hall of fame for his 4093 hits. Ichiro is one of the best at getting hits of all time, but that's for his accomplishments at the highest level, not because he played a decade in Japan. I don't give Ichiro credit for 4000 hits any more than I give Hideki Matsui credit for 507 career home runs, Kazuhiro Sasaki 387 career saves, or Hideo Nomo for having 201 career wins.

I do think there is a difference between Japanese baseball and ML baseball. You have players like Charlie Manuel who cannot even come close to hacking it in the majors and becoming successful in Japan. Manuel batted .198 in parts of 6 seasons for the Twins and Dodgers '69-'75, but hit .300 in 5 years in Japan with 147 HRs (more than he hit in the U.S. system in 11 years).

I am glad that Japan has become good enough that they have become something of an international feeder league, and I hope players come over here are continue to have success, but that won't change the fact that their Japanese stats are no more equivalent to AAA (if not worse).

 

[wazzu31]

And I think it's pretty safe to say Ichiro was juicing too. See how unnaturally large his vains in his fore arms were?

 

[cezero]

I truly think Ichiro would've still reached 4000 hits if he had started in MLB.

It still doesn't feel quite right to put him on a list with other career MLB players who reached the mark.

I adore Ichiro, btw, and am hoping he keeps playing for a long time.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Unfair to compare the leagues. Although Japanese baseball has made strides since the late 90s (when Ichiro was there) the talent doesnt compare to what is in the mlb. Someone brought up Matt Murton, Tuffy Rhodes is another good one that comes to mind.

That being said I think Ichiro would have gotten 4000 hits if he started in the MLB. He is a once in generation type of player. Definately a 1st ballot hall of famer.

 

[Cloud]

Irrelevant. There is no way to prove what may have happened had he chosen to come over to the U.S. earlier. Japan leagues are so difficult that the legendary Matt Murton (with his 272 career MLB hits) broke Ichio's single season Japanese hits record in his first season over there (2010).

Ichiro is a rare talent, and the only Japanese player to come over and have long term success in the Majors. Good for him. That doesn't mean that if he'd come to the U.S. in 1992 that he would have been able to move his way up the minors with relative speed. There isn't even any evidence that had he not had his success in Japan that coaches in the U.S. wouldn't have tried to change his swing and hence made him less successful and possibly he never even makes it. Who knows what really would have happened in that alternate reality, but in this one, he spent 9 years in Japan, and racked up 1278 hits against inferior opponents. Sadaharu Oh is not the home run king, and Ichiro does not get credit for 4000 hits.

So do you or do you not think he'll be close to 4000 hits by now if he started his career earlier here in the states? Simple question.

 

[#1BostonFan]

I'm sorry Japan is nothing compared to the MLB. He's a great player, but no way in hell he get's 4k if his entire career is in the MLB.

 

[Cloud]

I'm sorry Japan is nothing compared to the MLB. He's a great player, but no way in hell he get's 4k if his entire career is in the MLB.

Average 209.5 hits per season in 13 years in the MLB.
In 9 years in Japan he average 142 hits per season and they don't play a full 162 game season.


I think he'd be close to 4k... It'll probably be no where near Rose's or Cobb's numbers, but 4k should be in the realm of possibility! It's something we'll never know though.

 

[blstoker]

So do you or do you not think he'll be close to 4000 hits by now if he started his career earlier here in the states? Simple question.

Who knows. Everyone assumes that had he played in the U.S. system his entire career that he would have had the exact same success. Who knows what would have happened. Ichiro most likely wouldn't have even sniffed the majors until at least the age of 21, and that's assuming that he faired as well in the minor league system as he did in the Japanese system. We cannot even be sure if the early to mid 90s baseball coaches would have accepted his fastpich softball swing, and had they forced him to change that, how would that have effected his production, not only for leading up to 2001, but for what his career has been to this point.

People like to ask this question, but the path Ichiro took is one of the reasons he has been successful, if you change even one thing out of that path and who knows how that would affect what his career could have been. There's a chance he would have already broken Rose's record, but then again, if he didn't take to the minor league system then there's a chance he's out of baseball before the 2001 season that would be his debut in this reality. I lean toward the latter, and it has nothing to do with his skill, but a feeling that his career in Japan made him what he was when he got to the ML, and if he had gone through the minors I don't think he has the same success.

 

[wazzu31]

So do you or do you not think he'll be close to 4000 hits by now if he started his career earlier here in the states? Simple question.

No, it was stated earlier that had Ichiro been in a professional system without the success he had in Japan then every hitting coach would have tried to change his stance and approach. You don't see impatient slap hitters in the minor leagues because coach's get fired for allowing that their players to keep that approach.

 

[seattlefan75]

I would just like to see ichiro get 3000 hits in the major league and lock him up as a 1st ballot HOF as a mariner. He will be the only player in the history of baseball to get 3000 hits in the majors andh over 1000 hits internationally

 

[blade]

4000 professional hits does not equal 4000 major league hits. The 'milestone' is a joke.

 

[hawkfan1073]

The 'milestone' is a joke.

You know what isn't a joke and will get him into the HoF regardless of how many hits he gets?
10 straight 200 hit season (MLB record)
262 hits in a season (MLB record)

to go along with 40 double digit hit streaks in his career and 10 gold gloves.
RoY and an MVP in the same season.

and you people want to debate the 4,000 hit thing.....if he would have played in the majors he would have hit it no doubt. What a crock o' shit this debate is...lol