"I really do believe I'm the greatest receiver to play this game." -- Randy Moss

[NinerSickness]

*Joe won 2 superbowl MVP's playing with Rice*

Word. That's what I say every time someone cites Rice as the reason he was great.

Did Rice make him even better? Of course he did. Did it go both ways? Hell yes.

Conclusion? The GOAT threw the ball to the GOAT, and it was glorious.

And Moss pales in comparison.

 

[drekeeper]

All of what you just said is true. Rice had great QBs throwing him the ball. But that shouldn't work against him.

Moss could have had Tom Brady for the rest of his career, but he was a pain in the ass. What happens? He plays for 3 teams in 1 season and does absolutely nothong. That isn't best-of-all-time chops.

Moss had seasons of 767 & 553 yards (13 games each) in his PRIME. Rice was doing better than that at age friggn' 41! Rice's season at 41 was better than Moss' season at 35.

Larry Fitzgerald had 1400 yards with Kevin Kolb as his QB in 2011. Herman Moore was catching balls from one of the worst QBs I've ever seen play (Scott Mitchell). If you're the greatest of all time, you gotta do better than 400 yards in a season at age 35.

I am in no way shape or form trying to discredit anything that Rice has done, I'm simply saying look at the body of work and who each guy had for their careers and keep it real. Moss has done more with nothing and you cannot take that away from him. Moss at 35 is on a run first team with a younger guy in Crabtree who is clearly the guy, also playing with arguably the leagues most gifted tight end in Vernon Davis. Fitz did tally for 1400 yards in 11 but but look at his fall off this season, did he forget how to play the game, even with Kolb this season (from memory it wasn't going to end well). The New England situation that's another topic, they run everyone out the door when they age and Moss wanted security. Welker has been a good little solider his entire Patriot life and he's sitting at no greater than 60/40 for a return after all he has done. At the end of the day, all things considered Rice was in the better situation for his career than Randy Moss. I will always believe that had Moss took the path of Rice or even Owens in terms of signal callers and atmosphere(winning situations) Moss would have destroyed the record books had all things been equal

 

[NinerSickness]

Moss at 35 is on a run first team with a younger guy in Crabtree who is clearly the guy, also playing with arguably the leagues most gifted tight end in Vernon Davis.

If Moss is the greatest receiver who ever lived, he would out-play Michael Crabtree even at 35. Crabtree is not a great WR. But Moss was even being out-played by Mario Manningham! I think Kyle Williams would be out-playing him right now if he weren't injured.

Rice was in the better situation for his career than Randy Moss.

Yes. Thanks in large part to Jerry Rice. Jerry handled those situations better, worked harder, stayed in better shape and downright played better than Moss did.

I will always believe that had Moss took the path of Rice or even Owens in terms of signal callers and atmosphere(winning situations) Moss would have destroyed the record books had all things been equal

That's because all you're factoring in is talent. Nobody ever denied Moss' talent. But he did not have the heart to be the GOAT. He plays when he wants to. And he would've taken a great situation like the hypothetical one you described and crapped all over it like he did in New England bitching every day to the media about his contract.

This is all you need to know. 2005: Moss BARELY had a better season than Jerry friggn' Porter. That's the only Jerry who belongs in the same sentence as Moss.

 

[dredinis21]

I am in no way shape or form trying to discredit anything that Rice has done, I'm simply saying look at the body of work and who each guy had for their careers and keep it real. Moss has done more with nothing and you cannot take that away from him. Moss at 35 is on a run first team with a younger guy in Crabtree who is clearly the guy, also playing with arguably the leagues most gifted tight end in Vernon Davis. Fitz did tally for 1400 yards in 11 but but look at his fall off this season, did he forget how to play the game, even with Kolb this season (from memory it wasn't going to end well). The New England situation that's another topic, they run everyone out the door when they age and Moss wanted security. Welker has been a good little solider his entire Patriot life and he's sitting at no greater than 60/40 for a return after all he has done. At the end of the day, all things considered Rice was in the better situation for his career than Randy Moss. I will always believe that had Moss took the path of Rice or even Owens in terms of signal callers and atmosphere(winning situations) Moss would have destroyed the record books had all things been equal

I would venture to say the opposite. In terms of his own abilities, Moss has done less with more talent then any other WR in anyone's top ten WR rankings. The simple matter is that Moss had the POTENTIAL to be the GOAT, he just allowed his ego and lack of effort get in the way. The rest is all woulda coulda shoulda bullshit. Rice DID it. Moss has to look at his own career and lean on impact all while pretending as if Rice had none.

 

[Yoshi]

Word. That's what I say every time someone cites Rice as the reason he was great.

Did Rice make him even better? Of course he did. Did it go both ways? Hell yes.

Conclusion? The GOAT threw the ball to the GOAT, and it was glorious.

And Moss pales in comparison.

You'll never see GOATS like that again. I know good ole Skippy Bayless said this morning on First Take that in his opinion, Irvin was the best wideout. However, in my opinion, the best QB in NFL history paired with the greatest football player of all time on the same team was something else.

 

[Heathbar012]

You'll never see GOATS like that again. I know good ole Skippy Bayless said this morning on First Take that in his opinion, Irvin was the best wideout. However, in my opinion, the best QB in NFL history paired with the greatest football player of all time on the same team was something else.

How Skip Bayless has managed to make viewing, evaluating, writing and talking about sports his occupation is completely beyond me.

 

[sjballer03]

How Skip Bayless has managed to make viewing, evaluating, writing and talking about sports his occupation is completely beyond me.

I used to follow him on twitter for the comedy, but it was so exhausting I couldn't do it anymore.

 

[Robotech]

Moss can't be better than Rice. It's not just the stats, it was the effort and leadership Rice had. Moss is notorious for not giving full effort on plays when he isn't the primary target. Moss took many plays off, while Jerry hardly took any days off in his career. Didn't Jerry have a routine of starting his workouts for the next season shortly after the Super Bowl (like maybe only a week or two after)?

 

[Heathbar012]

I would agree with Randy if he said "most talented." He probably equates "most talented" and "best," but he is wrong. He definitely could have been the best if he tried harder (even just a little bit). Ironically, Jerry Rice probably doesn't even crack the Top 10 of Most Talented WRs in NFL History, but he is quite obviously the best.

 

[Kizer]

Problem is just saying that is gonna have opinions bias against you for being a cocky douchenozzle. Nobody at WR ever worked harder than Jerry to stay in shape and improve their skill.

None of them had as good an attitude as Rice. T.O. and Moss will always be held back by their egos. Statistics will reflect that.

 

[BINGO]

San Francisco 49ers ? Niner Insider Blog ? SFGate.com » Rice responds to Moss: ?I never took plays off?

 

[BINGO]

Super Bowl 2013: Jerry Rice says Randy Moss could have been the greatest - San Jose Mercury News

 

[wartyOne]

When comparing era's, it's apples and oranges. The game was a lot more physical then but whose to say that a 6-4 Randy Moss and his 4.25 40 and his vertical would not have destroyed every DB/Safety known to man back in those days (This guy does)? Back in those days you had a few DB's in Darrel Green and Deion who possessed that type of speed but they were the rare exceptions. The game was more brutal back then, but today's athletes are bigger, stronger faster than the players before. It's like listening to guys trying to convince another guy that Lebron would not have survived in Jordan's era its nonsense. I stay away from the hypothetical arguments and simply point to the facts. Moss's 3 year run with a Hall of fame QB produced 3,765 yards and 37 touchdowns. Over that span that's an average of 1255 yards and roughly 12 touchdowns a year which in Moss's heyday were subpar years, now throw in some of his seasons where he went off 1600 and 1400 with band aid QB's and the end numbers would look much different. I'm saying right now that Jerry Rice would not have put up near the numbers if he and Moss switched QB situations.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[wartyOne]

Stop me when I'm wrong. Montana won his first super bowl without the presence of Jerry Rice and proceeded to claim 3 Super Bowl MVP's playing with Rice, while leading an average Chiefs team to back to back playoffs appearances including a trip to the AFC title game..I'm Good that Joe with or without Rice would have been a success.

Young-No evidence to support either way

Gannon- Rice went to the Raiders in 01 Gannon was a raider two seasons before Rice and threw for 3840 and 24 td's and 3430 and 28 td's in respective seasons. Gannon was established before Rice and a success.

Disputing that Montana or Gannon's numbers improved with Rice? (Gannon's was actually about the same except for 2002) No argument, saying that much of their success could be attributed to Rice? No buying it, they both provide a body of work that suggest otherwise as compared to the guys that Moss played with. How is that QB thing working out for Fitz these days? You have to have a guy that can get you the ball in terms of the wide receiver, and Jerry, while great in his own right, was blessed in terms of his signal callers for a career compared to Moss.

*In short, the play of Crabtree pre Kap and with Kap and Fitz with Skelton, Kolb, etc says a lot. Randy had those types of dudes for a good portion of his career throwing him the rock and still made it to the Hall of fame*

Whoops, I see you corrected this already.

 

[wartyOne]

I am in no way shape or form trying to discredit anything that Rice has done, I'm simply saying look at the body of work and who each guy had for their careers and keep it real. Moss has done more with nothing and you cannot take that away from him. Moss at 35 is on a run first team with a younger guy in Crabtree who is clearly the guy, also playing with arguably the leagues most gifted tight end in Vernon Davis. Fitz did tally for 1400 yards in 11 but but look at his fall off this season, did he forget how to play the game, even with Kolb this season (from memory it wasn't going to end well). The New England situation that's another topic, they run everyone out the door when they age and Moss wanted security. Welker has been a good little solider his entire Patriot life and he's sitting at no greater than 60/40 for a return after all he has done. At the end of the day, all things considered Rice was in the better situation for his career than Randy Moss. I will always believe that had Moss took the path of Rice or even Owens in terms of signal callers and atmosphere(winning situations) Moss would have destroyed the record books had all things been equal

If we get to play the hypothetical to improve Moss, then we also get to play the hypothetical to improve Rice. If Rice got to play in the era where you can't touch the receivers or the QB's, he'd have 400 TD's, and this still wouldn't be a conversation.

Moss is great. Probably the second best to ever play the position. There's no shame in that. Rice is on a WHOLE other level.

 

[Kizer]

If we get to play the hypothetical to improve Moss, then we also get to play the hypothetical to improve Rice. If Rice got to play in the era where you can't touch the receivers or the QB's, he'd have 400 TD's, and this still wouldn't be a conversation.

Moss is great. Probably the second best to ever play the position. There's no shame in that. Rice is on a WHOLE other level.

Agreed. I can see debating RB's and LB's greatest evers but at the WR position it's just no contest. Rice is the Jordan of the WR position.

He wasn't as talented as Moss? And he's still better? Well, that just makes him even more great, doesn't it?

 

[drekeeper]

You're all entitled to your opinions, but Like I said, if Moss had spent an entire career lined with hall of fame/pro bowl Qb's his numbers would be superior. All this nonsense about work ethic and lack of for Moss is just that nonsense. Rice had to work harder because he was not as gifted, so naturally the end game is "work harder" in comparison to Moss. To suggest that Moss didn't "work" per say is garbage, look at his numbers, look at his lack of injuries for a career. To think for one second that Jerry Rice has the same type of career playing with the QB's that Moss did with the exception of Brady is Homerism in its truest form. The teams, systems, coaching and schemes Rice was apart of is not even close in comparison but to each their own. Like Moss said, they created new defenses because of him, Moss made Qb's with the exception of Brady and that, that is impact

 

[AU_Fever]

I think Moss has more talent, but he lacks the work ethic, desire, and passion that Rice had about the game. Rice was in better shape in his late 30's than a lot of other WR's in their mid 20's. Rice just made everyone better and I consider him the GOAT.

 

[wartyOne]

You're all entitled to your opinions, but Like I said, if Moss had spent an entire career lined with hall of fame/pro bowl Qb's his numbers would be superior. All this nonsense about work ethic and lack of for Moss is just that nonsense. Rice had to work harder because he was not as gifted, so naturally the end game is "work harder" in comparison to Moss. To suggest that Moss didn't "work" per say is garbage, look at his numbers, look at his lack of injuries for a career. To think for one second that Jerry Rice has the same type of career playing with the QB's that Moss did with the exception of Brady is Homerism in its truest form. The teams, systems, coaching and schemes Rice was apart of is not even close in comparison but to each their own. Like Moss said, they created new defenses because of him, Moss made Qb's with the exception of Brady and that, that is impact

You're entitled to your opinion, too. But your opinion isn't evidence that the boldened statement is anything other than your opinion.