I need real news.

[Illinest]

Kristy's photos are not good enough. Provide links if you got em. Of course if i recall correctly the team clamped down on public access last year.

 

[magnumo]

Kristy's photos are not good enough. Provide links if you got em. Of course if i recall correctly the team clamped down on public access last year.

By now, you've probably read much of the same stuff I have. But there's an interview of Jo-Jo Reyes by Bill Brink of the Post-Gazette which I found mildly interesting. Reyes apparently thinks he has a good chance to make the team. (I admire that confidence.)

The interview is behind the PG+ pay firewall, but if you dump your cookies and try again, the link may work:

Q&A: Jo-Jo Reyes

There was also a chat with Brink on PG+ within the past few days..... and it contained some interesting tidbits. Unfortunately, I can't find that link. (Sorry about that.)

 

[thecrow124]

Here is some news we should have seen coming out of left field........Ryan Braun won his appeal. Screw you Bud and the horse you rode in on.

 

[magnumo]

A couple of links

Here's one about Gimenez ALMOST signing with the Pirates:

Gimenez entertained offer from Pirates | raysbaseball.com: News

And another about Barajas (Associated Press via Sportsnet Canada):

Veteran Barajas set to lead Pirates' young pitchers - sportsnet.ca

 

[magnumo]

Here is some news we should have seen coming out of left field........Ryan Braun won his appeal. Screw you Bud and the horse you rode in on.

Hey crow,

Why are you blaming this on Selig? The reports I've read indicate that the MLB office is furious about the arbitrator's decision.

 

[element1286]

Yea, I read the protocal wasn't followed when transporting the sample, or something to that effect....of course I also read that Braun tested positive because he was being treated for an STD soo.......there is that.

 

[Darkstone42]

Yea, I read the protocal wasn't followed when transporting the sample, or something to that effect....of course I also read that Braun tested positive because he was being treated for an STD soo.......there is that.

 

[Etrius24]

They give you steroids to cure the clap??? WTF???

 

[Darkstone42]

They give you steroids to cure the clap??? WTF???

They give you steroids for a lot of things, especially if they're auto-immune. I know for a fact diabetics have to take them sometimes, and my dad was on them when he had pancreatitis to help him fight infections in his weakened state.

Since drug testing is a chemical process, and my best guess is that it's somehow spectroscopic, and since steroids are named not necessarily for their effect, but for their chemical structure, any steroid would likely show up very close to the same on a test like this.

All of those are steroids, but I don't know what any of them do. Regardless, they would all show up similarly on most spectroscopic analyses, and at the very least microwave, IR, UV-Vis, and NMR, which are the methods with which I am most familiar.

EDIT: I take it back. There would be distinct differences in the IR and NMR spectra of the molecules pictured above due to the variations on the alcohol and carboxylic acid groups. But the spectra would still be a mess for the most part.

 

[Darkstone42]

I did some poking around. Apparently, analytical chemists in China and India have developed a new, faster testing method which eliminates the sample preparation steps, which involves desorption electrospray ionization and mass spectrometry. I didn't even think about using mass spec, but a high resolution mass spec can identify almost without question the empirical formula of anything it tests. With that knowledge, any structural data from something like DESI, diffraction methods, or rotational spectroscopy in the mircowave or IR regimes would be pretty conclusive.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071015111418.htm

So basically what I'm saying is that unless the steroid Braun was using to treat his STD almost identical in empirical formula and very close in structure to one of the forbidden PEDs, it should not have produced a positive result, assuming those methods are the ones used for these tests.

Of course, I can't seem to find anything conclusive on the actual analytical methods used in drug testing in sports, so I'm just spitballing.

 

[Darkstone42]

Oh, I almost forgot.

 

[Etrius24]

Darkstone

I would have to go back and research old articles... I am pretty sure I remember reading that Braun had synthetic testosterone in his body... and that MLB knew what he had taken... in terms of the type of Steroid.

Also

This is just me saying this... Baseball players fuck a lot of women! all professional athletes do! ( assuming they are heterosexual ) You mean to tell me that Braun is the first baseball player to be tested within 6 months of getting an STD???

They have been testing for nearly a decade ( not that the results were binding or published fully at first )...So you have hundreds young men in their prime.. having incredible amounts of sex with gorgeous young ladies in every baseball town across america and only 1 player got an STD and then was tested?

Also it is worth noting that no college player or olympic athlete to my knowledge has used the " I had an STD " defense to try to beat a positive test for PED

Some of my favourites though looking back:

I like to take a shot of whiskey, that could do it.. Floyd Landis

I thought I was rubbing myself down with horse linament: Bonds and Sheffield.

 

[Burgh Sports Rule]

Yea, I read the protocal wasn't followed when transporting the sample, or something to that effect....of course I also read that Braun tested positive because he was being treated for an STD soo.......there is that.

Does anyone else find it mildly entertaining that when another, "Lesser" player gets busted for roids, that we seem to have no issues with the chain of custody of the samples & that the suspensions always seem to be upheld & served.

Yet, when we have the NL MVP Ryan Braun, in his prime, getting busted for roids...

Bang, we have a Bullshit technicality of tansportation of the sample & a Bullshit chain of custody issue & Bam the Great player wins his appeal.

That is totally wrong & sucks. Bud & MLB can act like they are upset about this all that they want to. I don't believe them.

Hey Bud, come down just as hard on the stars in MLB just as you do the benchwarmer or the minor league players & maybe people would respect you, your office & the sport more.

Bullshit.

In a related note:
Manny Ramirez, when he was busted for roids again with the rays last yr, got caught for a 2nd time. That was supposed to mean an automatic 100 gm suspension. Facing that penalty Manny retired. He decides to come back & the players association gets his suspension reduced to 50 gms.

How is this even allowed? It was Manny's 2nd offense? Automatic 100 gm suspension under the drug policy rules.

Again, A "Lesser" "No Name" player would have gotten the 100 gm ban.

Manny did not.

Today, a "Lesser" "No Name" player would have gotten a 50 gm ban for his first offense.

Ryan Braun gets Zero. Most probably, I think, because Braun is the NL MVP & Baseball & Bud don't want the black eye of losing a major star in his prime, for 50 gms.

Bud Selig, in my view, is the worst commisioner Baseball has ever seen.

Baseball & Bud are full of crap. Chain of custody isuues my ass!

Burgh.

 

[Darkstone42]

Darkstone

I would have to go back and research old articles... I am pretty sure I remember reading that Braun had synthetic testosterone in his body... and that MLB knew what he had taken... in terms of the type of Steroid.

Also

This is just me saying this... Baseball players fuck a lot of women! all professional athletes do! ( assuming they are heterosexual ) You mean to tell me that Braun is the first baseball player to be tested within 6 months of getting an STD???

They have been testing for nearly a decade ( not that the results were binding or published fully at first )...So you have hundreds young men in their prime.. having incredible amounts of sex with gorgeous young ladies in every baseball town across america and only 1 player got an STD and then was tested?

Also it is worth noting that no college player or olympic athlete to my knowledge has used the " I had an STD " defense to try to beat a positive test for PED

Some of my favourites though looking back:

I like to take a shot of whiskey, that could do it.. Floyd Landis

I thought I was rubbing myself down with horse linament: Bonds and Sheffield.

Yeah, in my second post, I kind of rescinded my claim in the first post to fall more in line with what you're saying here. Specifically, after looking more closely at the structures of the steroids I posted, it seems unlikely that a steroid used to treat an illness would produce a positive result on a PED test unless the two were almost to exactly structurally identical.

Also, I have two words for those athletes: sexual responsibility.

 

[magnumo]

To Darkstone:

Clearly, you know more about the technology of steroids testing than I do, and I thank you for expanding my knowledge.

However, I can confirm from personal experience that there are MANY different steroids and they are used for MANY different ailments. A few that I'm familiar with are cortisone, prednisone, and ACTH.

- My personal experience relates to my high susceptibility to poison ivy. I've had both cortisone creams and prednisone pills prescribed for severe cases of poison ivy..... but neither had any effect. The ONLY treatment which has been effective for me was a shot of ACTH. (Doctors don't like to give that shot, due to potential side effects.)

- My mother-in-law was on cortisone and prednisone for many years before her death, as treatment for her allergies, asthma, and Crohn's disease. Later in life, she had to take those drugs constantly because her body ALSO became incapable of producing any natural cortisone or adrenaline.

- Most fans are aware that athletes were given cortisone shots pretty frequently, in order to reduce inflammation and relieve pain associated with sports injuries. I THINK (not sure) that cortisone shots have become less frequent in sports medicine, largely due to the taint of "steroids."

- IIRC, cortisone and/or prednisone are used to treat LOTS of other problems, such as other skin conditions, some cancers, MS, TB, syphilis, lupus..... and even to suppress organ rejection after transplants.

On the other hand, I gotta believe that testing protocols can differentiate between different steroids and their metabolites. Various international drug testing entities have expressed the same outrage as MLB over the Braun decision. They MUST believe that the testing was definitive and accurate.

To Burgh Sports Rule:

- There are MANY reasons to dislike Selig as Commissioner..... and I dislike Selig as much as anyone.

- But I can't blame Selig for the Braun case. MLB cast their vote AGAINST Braun, while the union and the "independent" arbitrator on the panel voted FOR Braun. Every account I've read indicates that the Commissioner's office was "furious," or "angry," or "outraged" with the decision. In my view, this one is strictly on Shyam Das (the independent arbitrator) and no one else.

In general:

I'd like to think we will get more explanatory info when Das issues his written report (required within 30 days). However, we may never get any additional info. The way I understand it, the whole process is supposed to be confidential. The only reason we've heard as much as we have to date is that Braun's positive test "leaked" to the media..... so Braun and the union decided to publicize his denial.

 

[Darkstone42]

To Darkstone:

Clearly, you know more about the technology of steroids testing than I do, and I thank you for expanding my knowledge.

However, I can confirm from personal experience that there are MANY different steroids and they are used for MANY different ailments. A few that I'm familiar with are cortisone, prednisone, and ACTH.

- My personal experience relates to my high susceptibility to poison ivy. I've had both cortisone creams and prednisone pills prescribed for severe cases of poison ivy..... but neither had any effect. The ONLY treatment which has been effective for me was a shot of ACTH. (Doctors don't like to give that shot, due to potential side effects.)

- My mother-in-law was on cortisone and prednisone for many years before her death, as treatment for her allergies, asthma, and Crohn's disease. Later in life, she had to take those drugs constantly because her body ALSO became incapable of producing any natural cortisone or adrenaline.

- Most fans are aware that athletes were given cortisone shots pretty frequently, in order to reduce inflammation and relieve pain associated with sports injuries. I THINK (not sure) that cortisone shots have become less frequent in sports medicine, largely due to the taint of "steroids."

- IIRC, cortisone and/or prednisone are used to treat LOTS of other problems, such as other skin conditions, some cancers, MS, TB, syphilis, lupus..... and even to suppress organ rejection after transplants.

On the other hand, I gotta believe that testing protocols can differentiate between different steroids and their metabolites. Various international drug testing entities have expressed the same outrage as MLB over the Braun decision. They MUST believe that the testing was definitive and accurate.

To Burgh Sports Rule:

- There are MANY reasons to dislike Selig as Commissioner..... and I dislike Selig as much as anyone.

- But I can't blame Selig for the Braun case. MLB cast their vote AGAINST Braun, while the union and the "independent" arbitrator on the panel voted FOR Braun. Every account I've read indicates that the Commissioner's office was "furious," or "angry," or "outraged" with the decision. In my view, this one is strictly on Shyam Das (the independent arbitrator) and no one else.

In general:

I'd like to think we will get more explanatory info when Das issues his written report (required within 30 days). However, we may never get any additional info. The way I understand it, the whole process is supposed to be confidential. The only reason we've heard as much as we have to date is that Braun's positive test "leaked" to the media..... so Braun and the union decided to publicize his denial.

I'm a pretty green spectroscopist right now, but I plan on making it my field of expertise over the next few years. I do know, however, that steroids are named for their conjugated ring structures, and that most of the spectroscopic differences would be the result of the substituent groups, which cause differences in the way the molecules vibrate and rotate, as well as changing their interactions with various potential energy fields.

I'm guessing empirical predictions were developed by testing each PED separately, then a computer program was written to identify those predicted spectra and pull them out of the full spectrum of the sample.

I also estimate they have some method of background-subtracting any peaks produced by the chemicals almost always found in urine.

As to your point about the stigma of "steroids" in sports, and why cortisone is no longer as widely used, I would tend to agree with your stand. But since the term "steroid" is not synonymous with performance enhancing drug in general, I hope they move away from generalizing the term the way they have. Certainly the steroid structure itself plays a crucial role in the behavior of these chemicals in the human body, but the specific effects are, as I understand it, in general a product of the substituent groups, which tend to be significantly more reactive, and the locations at which most of the interesting chemistry should happen.

 

[magnumo]

I'm a pretty green spectroscopist right now, but I plan on making it my field of expertise over the next few years. I do know, however, that steroids are named for their conjugated ring structures, and that most of the spectroscopic differences would be the result of the substituent groups, which cause differences in the way the molecules vibrate and rotate, as well as changing their interactions with various potential energy fields.

I'm guessing empirical predictions were developed by testing each PED separately, then a computer program was written to identify those predicted spectra and pull them out of the full spectrum of the sample.

I also estimate they have some method of background-subtracting any peaks produced by the chemicals almost always found in urine.

As to your point about the stigma of "steroids" in sports, and why cortisone is no longer as widely used, I would tend to agree with your stand. But since the term "steroid" is not synonymous with performance enhancing drug in general, I hope they move away from generalizing the term the way they have. Certainly the steroid structure itself plays a crucial role in the behavior of these chemicals in the human body, but the specific effects are, as I understand it, in general a product of the substituent groups, which tend to be significantly more reactive, and the locations at which most of the interesting chemistry should happen.

I wish you luck with your pursuit. I gotta feeling that the field will be incredibly interesting and will only grow moreso with advances in genetic technology and nanotech..... as well as the analytical hardware and software involved in organic chemistry.

Some of your comments are a bit beyond my headlights, but make sense and seem consistent with what I know. Thanks again for expanding my knowledge base.

I like your point about differentiating between the labels "steroids" and "PED's." Several pretty intelligent acquaintances of mine expressed shock when they first came to realize that cortisone and prednisone ARE steroids. Maybe someone needs to come up with a short, catchy name for the steroid class of PED's (one which people will use)..... to help de-stigmatize other steroids.