I Agree With Fred Smoot On Kirk Cousins

[Dolemite censored]

Ex-Redskins CB Fred Smoot Rips Kirk Cousins, Says ‘He’s a 4th Quarter Stat Hound’

Damn. Talk about a total smackdown.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

The idea that all else equal having more money to spend elsewhere isnt a good thing is ridiculous.

In a vacuum yes - but just assuming that being cheap at QB (& praying that a rookie does well) is a flawed argument. Folks just assume that more cap space translates into a better team. For the most part teams become better when they are part of a solid organization - not where they have tons of cap space. In this case all else is not equal.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Oh yeah??......Well, despite all of your proof, it's been well established here on this site that "He's the best that we've had in 20 years."

OK - last game notwithstanding - which Redskins QB has been better over the last 20 years? Good to see that you take such joy in Cousins & the Redskins issues (as long as it helps support your agenda).

 

[ehb5]

In a vacuum yes - but just assuming that being cheap at QB (& praying that a rookie does well) is a flawed argument. Folks just assume that more cap space translates into a better team. For the most part teams become better when they are part of a solid organization - not where they have tons of cap space. In this case all else is not equal.

I agree, but I think theres too much "who cares how much we pay him extra money wont help". I strongly disagree. Extra money most definitely helps.

Heres the deal. Kirk Cousins is worth X amount of dollars. But I dont know what X is. At some point though the $$$ to keep him is gonna be higher than X.

 

[gkekoa]

Honestly, it also doesn't help that the market value for QBs is too high. The similarities between Stafford, Carr and Cousins are visible and obvious. David Carr took a 4-12 team to 12-4, making the playoffs and the only reason they lost in the first round last year was because he got injured. Stafford took an 0-16 team, albeit slowly, to making the playoffs in 3 of the last 6 years. Cousins took a 3-13 team to 9-7 and making the playoffs. Neither QB has won a playoff game but one thing is clear between these three QBs.

The Lions have made the playoff run they are making now with Scott Mitchell as QB from 94-97. Charlie Batch took them to the playoffs in 1999. Jon Kitna took them to 7-9 in 2007. Stafford was the QB in 2012 when they went 4-12. So Stafford hasn't changed the landscape of the Lions franchise.

The Redskins have made the playoffs and won their division with Robert Griffin III as QB in 2012. Mark Brunell took them to the playoffs in 2005 and won a playoff game. Jason Campbell took them to the playoffs in 2007. Going to the playoffs wasn't a huge hill to climb for the Redskins. So Cousins hasn't changed the landscape of the Redskins franchise

The Raiders were nothing from the time they went to the Super Bowl in 2002 to the time Derek Carr, Amari Cooper and Jack Del Rio came into town. So, arguably, Carr is worth the money he's making because he's essentially changing the Raiders franchise. No Raiders QB since Rich Gannon has been able to do what Derek Carr has done for the Raiders.

Yes, Cousins took over a 3-13 team to be a .500 team. Yes, Stafford took over an 0-16 team to be a somewhat consistent playoff team but can't put together two winning seasons in a row. The Lions didn't make the playoffs from 2000-2010, but Stafford has also had 4 losing seasons in his 7 full starting seasons. Neither Cousins or Stafford are doing something drastically different to change the franchise.

I will throw this out to you again. Redskins first rounders over the last five years...
Brandon Scherff
Josh Doctson- barely counts as he is never on the field
Jonathan Allen, a rookie

Again, teams are built through the draft. KC is still suffering from the RG3 fiasco. Our team is far better than it was.


Arguably, Carr is. Maybe he isn't. Last year he played great and a great record ensued. Before that, not much. You tried to belittle what Stafford and KC have done by saying no Raiders QB since Gannon did what Carr did. No Redskins QB has done what KC did since 1997 when we won back to back seasons. Years of a franchise being inept isn't really overturned in a season.

 

[gkekoa]

I agree, but I think theres too much "who cares how much we pay him extra money wont help". I strongly disagree. Extra money most definitely helps.

Heres the deal. Kirk Cousins is worth X amount of dollars. But I dont know what X is. At some point though the $$$ to keep him is gonna be higher than X.

It really doesn't help. QBs on good teams over a long period costroughly 15% of the cap. That is what we would have been paying KC.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I agree, but I think theres too much "who cares how much we pay him extra money wont help". I strongly disagree. Extra money most definitely helps.

Heres the deal. Kirk Cousins is worth X amount of dollars. But I dont know what X is. At some point though the $$$ to keep him is gonna be higher than X.

If you want to argue money then I would maintain that the Redskins have handled the financial part of this contract horribly. There are tons of ways they could have handled this which would have actually given them more cap room (& certainly they could draft outs which would not penalize them too severely if Cousins does not pan out). Face it - this has as much to do with their egos as with their $$.

The Redskins issues during the Snyder era have not been with the cap for the most part but rather with their stupid decision making & again that reflects how an organization is run.

 

[ehb5]

If you want to argue money then I would maintain that the Redskins have handled the financial part of this contract horribly. There are tons of ways they could have handled this which would have actually given them more cap room (& certainly they could draft outs which would not penalize them too severely if Cousins does not pan out). Face it - this has as much to do with their egos as with their $$.

The Redskins issues during the Snyder era have not been with the cap for the most part but rather with their stupid decision making & again that reflects how an organization is run.

Hey you dont have to convince me of that. Bruce is a moron. This 100% could have been handled better.

Stupid decision making is a very broad umbrella. I agree Snyder (and Allen) needs to be out of football decisions. Thats why I was so upset with the SM firing. Its not that I think SM is a super genius, its that he represents a real GM making sound decisions not based on emotion and Snyders whims.

 

[Stymietee]

I don't give a crap about how much money a player makes. I'm all for making every dollar that's available in every aspect in life. That said, my opinion of Kirk Cousins the football player won't change no matter what this team accomplishes on the field. The Question is WHY won't it change?

Simply stated: He is what he is and that won't change.....ever!!

Think about what's being said constantly on this site (and elsewhere) about him.....especially here. We already know what to expect from Kirk, his numbers are pretty good in this offensive structure, but, what else gives us indications that he is what he is?

Almost to a person on this site, everyone says that in order for the team to become either a SB winner or consistent challengers for the same is by improved offensive line play that includes a potent running game. A defense that ranks in the top _____ depending on the poster and now a receiving corp that rivals last year's group. Nothing wrong with any of that right? Well, yeah, but it also says something about the QB and that is....Give us that and what we already have at QB and we'll be contenders.

In other words, Kirk as he is..........for those insisting that Kirk CAN improve, yeah, but that means merely learning what NOT to do and Nothing that makes the surrounding cast better. Why? because he is what he is!!

 

[ehb5]

It really doesn't help. QBs on good teams over a long period costroughly 15% of the cap. That is what we would have been paying KC.

That might have to do with QBs on good teams being WORTH 15% of the cap.

Not saying Kirk isnt (Idk what 15% of the cap is off the top of my head) but I am saying paying players more than their worth seems like a bad idea.

Letting QBs good enough to win a SB walk out the front door also seems like a bad idea (idk if Kirk is that good or not).

Point is...its complicated.

 

[skinsdad62]

I don't give a crap about how much money a player makes. I'm all for making every dollar that's available in every aspect in life. That said, my opinion of Kirk Cousins the football player won't change no matter what this team accomplishes on the field. The Question is WHY won't it change?

Simply stated: He is what he is and that won't change.....ever!!

Think about what's being said constantly on this site (and elsewhere) about him.....especially here. We already know what to expect from Kirk, his numbers are pretty good in this offensive structure, but, what else gives us indications that he is what he is?

Almost to a person on this site, everyone says that in order for the team to become either a SB winner or consistent challengers for the same is by improved offensive line play that includes a potent running game. A defense that ranks in the top _____ depending on the poster and now a receiving corp that rivals last year's group. Nothing wrong with any of that right? Well, yeah, but it also says something about the QB and that is....Give us that and what we already have at QB and we'll be contenders.

In other words, Kirk as he is..........for those insisting that Kirk CAN improve, yeah, but that means merely learning what NOT to do and Nothing that makes the surrounding cast better. Why? because he is what he is!!

nobody is saying he isnt what he is . nobody is saying he elevates other players , what is being said is find a better proven replacement for cheaper

crickets is the answer

 

[Stymietee]

OK - last game notwithstanding - which Redskins QB has been better over the last 20 years? Good to see that you take such joy in Cousins & the Redskins issues (as long as it helps support your agenda).

With the same supporting cast and coaching, a lot of them are equal to if not better. That point was made already. Good to see that you are blinded by abject homerism.

 

[Stymietee]

nobody is saying he isnt what he is . nobody is saying he elevates other players , what is being said is find a better proven replacement for cheaper

crickets is the answer

Crickets???? Really??? I've done that....you can disagree and that's fine, but to say that I haven't is just disingenuous.

 

[Yo Tee]

Not semantics - you are crediting JC with winning the Bears game (where he was hurt). Collins won that game with 2 TD passes. Campbell left the game in the 2nd QTR when the score was 0-0. How is that winning the game? Once again you use stats incorrectly & fail to use the actual eye test when evaluating players.

Again - who cares if this makes sense. The QB pay is just the way it is - a waste of time arguing that pt. You sound like Clint Eastwood telling people to get off his lawn. Get over it already.

You're arguments always end with get over it or saying it's a waste of time. If it's a waste of time, why even bother engaging in the conversation?

 

[Yo Tee]

nobody is saying he isnt what he is . nobody is saying he elevates other players , what is being said is find a better proven replacement for cheaper

crickets is the answer

Crickets is the answer because you aren't willing to take a chance on a rookie QB. There are plenty of examples of a rookie QB making a difference either the same year or the following year. The Redskins level of sucking was so bad that you got a taste of the playoffs and you don't wanna look back. That's understandable. But SETTLING, and that's exactly what you are doing, for Kirk Cousins because there is no guarantee of someone better AND cheaper, is sad.

 

[Yo Tee]

I will throw this out to you again. Redskins first rounders over the last five years...
Brandon Scherff
Josh Doctson- barely counts as he is never on the field
Jonathan Allen, a rookie

Again, teams are built through the draft. KC is still suffering from the RG3 fiasco. Our team is far better than it was.


Arguably, Carr is. Maybe he isn't. Last year he played great and a great record ensued. Before that, not much. You tried to belittle what Stafford and KC have done by saying no Raiders QB since Gannon did what Carr did. No Redskins QB has done what KC did since 1997 when we won back to back seasons. Years of a franchise being inept isn't really overturned in a season.

Not all teams are built on the draft. New England Patriots.

 

[Stymietee]

You're arguments always end with get over it or saying it's a waste of time. If it's a waste of time, why even bother engaging in the conversation?

You already know the answer to this question.....Ya have to love people who want to engage until they are made to think beyond or rely upon simplistic platitudes.

 

[deanpet21]

Crickets is the answer because you aren't willing to take a chance on a rookie QB. There are plenty of examples of a rookie QB making a difference either the same year or the following year. The Redskins level of sucking was so bad that you got a taste of the playoffs and you don't wanna look back. That's understandable. But SETTLING, and that's exactly what you are doing, for Kirk Cousins because there is no guarantee of someone better AND cheaper, is sad.

I for one are not afraid of a rookie Qb especially this rookie class coming in. Plus there will be no need for a RG3 type trade of draft picks to land a good one. I agree with you the money is insane for Kc's talent. I just want the season to play out before I make my final decision on whether or not to give KC a LTD.

 

[Yo Tee]

OK - last game notwithstanding - which Redskins QB has been better over the last 20 years? Good to see that you take such joy in Cousins & the Redskins issues (as long as it helps support your agenda).

Brad Johnson. 1999. 10-6 with a division title AND a playoff win. Over 4,000 yards passing and during that time, 4,000 yards was a good feat. Almost an NFC title game too. Also, Robert Griffin III has had the same success as Kirk Cousins in Washington. The Redskins' best season since their Super Bowl win in 91.

 

[Yo Tee]

I don't give a crap about how much money a player makes. I'm all for making every dollar that's available in every aspect in life. That said, my opinion of Kirk Cousins the football player won't change no matter what this team accomplishes on the field. The Question is WHY won't it change?

Simply stated: He is what he is and that won't change.....ever!!

Think about what's being said constantly on this site (and elsewhere) about him.....especially here. We already know what to expect from Kirk, his numbers are pretty good in this offensive structure, but, what else gives us indications that he is what he is?

Almost to a person on this site, everyone says that in order for the team to become either a SB winner or consistent challengers for the same is by improved offensive line play that includes a potent running game. A defense that ranks in the top _____ depending on the poster and now a receiving corp that rivals last year's group. Nothing wrong with any of that right? Well, yeah, but it also says something about the QB and that is....Give us that and what we already have at QB and we'll be contenders.

In other words, Kirk as he is..........for those insisting that Kirk CAN improve, yeah, but that means merely learning what NOT to do and Nothing that makes the surrounding cast better. Why? because he is what he is!!

KC should've improved by now. It's his 5th year. 3rd year as a full-time starter.