Hypotheticals

[Cincyfan78]

Here's one other way to look at it. Tee Higgins is listed as the top FA by most publications. If Trey were an unrestricted free agent right now, he would be somewhere in the top 5. The Bengals have a lot of cap space. The Bengals have ways to control the negotiations with both Trey and Tee. A winning franchise recognizes the talent, the opportunity, and the value. Just get it done.

If Trey were a F/A he would be #1 - and I don't think it would be close. Elite DE's > WR unless that WR is a Chase, Jefferson, etc...

 

[Cincyfan78]

The Bengals are deathly afraid of bad signings and signing players who are likely to get injured. hence, letting Andrew Whitworth go to greener pastures for example. unless it's the draft of course, we'll draft people straight out of prison.

Bengals want to play out every contract - and for elite players, that doesn't work. Never has, never will. You have to get out ahead of these contracts to better position yourself so things like this don't happen where you have 3-4 guys all coming due at roughly the same time.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I'm not exactly sure everyone has figured out the leverage that the players have here. If the Bengals tag Tee and refuse to make market offers to Tee and Trey, you could see all 4 of them hold out/hold in until something moves. Ja'Marr could say that he won't sign a long-term deal if they tag Tee and don't negotiate in good faith. He and Tee having the same agent opens up a bunch of possibilities. Joe could hold-in until the contracts are signed. Basically, the four of them could fuck up all of camp. The Bengals need to think long and hard about their strategy to wait until the last possible moment with the hopes that the player will cave.

If players start doing this, that will be the beginning of the end of football as we know it. The owners no longer own the teams, the players do and they dictate what the rules are. Now, can Mike Brown get his shit together and figure out a way? Yes. Should be be completely boxed in and fucked in the ass by his 4 biggest stars unless he comes up with a way? I don't think so.

I agree, we lose Burrow and Chase, well, the fun of watching the Bengals is gone. However, Burrow is the richest player in history and still has 5 years left on his deal. Chase, well he can play hardball a little. He can say, I don't want to come back if Tee doesn't come back. So in that case, he is living on his 5th year deal, and back to back franchise tags. Because you know the Bengals will use everything in their cupboard to keep him as long as they can. Will he play under these? No idea, but he is looking at 3 years of team control right now.

I remember everyone telling me this last offseason, Tee is gone, he is never coming back, the Bengals don't want him to come back, Chase is more important, etc. Yet, here is your #2 WR with your 3 biggest stars rallying around him causing the whole thing to go down the drain.

I want Tee to come back, but the other 3 are the most important and Tee the least of those 4.

 

[Cincyfan78]

If players start doing this, that will be the beginning of the end of football as we know it. The owners no longer own the teams, the players do and they dictate what the rules are. Now, can Mike Brown get his shit together and figure out a way? Yes. Should be be completely boxed in and fucked in the ass by his 4 biggest stars unless he comes up with a way? I don't think so.

I agree, we lose Burrow and Chase, well, the fun of watching the Bengals is gone. However, Burrow is the richest player in history and still has 5 years left on his deal. Chase, well he can play hardball a little. He can say, I don't want to come back if Tee doesn't come back. So in that case, he is living on his 5th year deal, and back to back franchise tags. Because you know the Bengals will use everything in their cupboard to keep him as long as they can. Will he play under these? No idea, but he is looking at 3 years of team control right now.

I remember everyone telling me this last offseason, Tee is gone, he is never coming back, the Bengals don't want him to come back, Chase is more important, etc. Yet, here is your #2 WR with your 3 biggest stars rallying around him causing the whole thing to go down the drain.

I want Tee to come back, but the other 3 are the most important and Tee the least of those 4.

FWIW - The Bengals were ready to let him walk. They are/were ready to let Trey play out his final year. The plan was to pay Chase, Burrow, and hope to re-load. That plan got blown up.

Burrow getting out into the media threw that plan in the trash. Bengals did not plan on that happening. Then, you have national media guys pointing out how easy it would be for the Bengals to pay all of them - and suddenly - the Bengals are in a corner they had no idea they were being backed into.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

Bengals want to play out every contract - and for elite players, that doesn't work. Never has, never will. You have to get out ahead of these contracts to better position yourself so things like this don't happen where you have 3-4 guys all coming due at roughly the same time.

This is it right here. Mike Brown has always been stuck in the old days of “he signed a contract he has to adhere to it”. This hasn’t been the reality of the league in 20 years.

There is no set and forget. In this day and age of guaranteed dollars, players will be up for renegotiation every couple of years now. Contract or no contract. The Bengals have to start getting more aggressive and proactive with market trends for deals like this or risk every couple offseasons being like this one.

 

[cincygrad]

This is it right here. Mike Brown has always been stuck in the old days of “he signed a contract he has to adhere to it”. This hasn’t been the reality of the league in 20 years.

There is no set and forget. In this day and age of guaranteed dollars, players will be up for renegotiation every couple of years now. Contract or no contract. The Bengals have to start getting more aggressive and proactive with market trends for deals like this or risk every couple offseasons being like this one.

It's also disingenous of the Bengals to act like they still honor all of their contracts. They have cut or moved on from several veterans that were still owed money. They are playing both sides.

 

[cincygrad]

If players start doing this, that will be the beginning of the end of football as we know it. The owners no longer own the teams, the players do and they dictate what the rules are. Now, can Mike Brown get his shit together and figure out a way? Yes. Should be be completely boxed in and fucked in the ass by his 4 biggest stars unless he comes up with a way? I don't think so.

I agree, we lose Burrow and Chase, well, the fun of watching the Bengals is gone. However, Burrow is the richest player in history and still has 5 years left on his deal. Chase, well he can play hardball a little. He can say, I don't want to come back if Tee doesn't come back. So in that case, he is living on his 5th year deal, and back to back franchise tags. Because you know the Bengals will use everything in their cupboard to keep him as long as they can. Will he play under these? No idea, but he is looking at 3 years of team control right now.

I remember everyone telling me this last offseason, Tee is gone, he is never coming back, the Bengals don't want him to come back, Chase is more important, etc. Yet, here is your #2 WR with your 3 biggest stars rallying around him causing the whole thing to go down the drain.

I want Tee to come back, but the other 3 are the most important and Tee the least of those 4.

The Bengals have options and the players have options. They could fine guys if they don't practice during camp. They chose not to do so with Ja'Marr last year. The players have slowly grabbed more control with an assist from the owners. Once the owners started guaranteeing deals, it gave more power to the players. You can say that they are screwing Mike Brown over, but I don't think it's so simple. Tee doesn't have to practice if he is tagged. Ja'Marr is going to get paid a big sum this year - he can eat some fines and sit out next year if he wants. I don't think he would, but the damage is already done if he doesn't practice.

Everyone screaming that Tee was going to be gone were not wrong..... It was the plan that he was gone. Particularly with his agent. The players pivoted - Tee changed agents, Burrown went on a PR tour, and now the pressure is on the Bengals. They made assumptions about how they would play it and now the circumstances have changed. They could still stick to their plan, but they better have something to show for it or they will lose faith from their players and fans.

The shit of all of this is that the Bengals were supposed to be a draft and develop your own franchise. And for a long time, they got a lot of this right. They extended Chad multiple times before he ever came up for a new deal. They extended Gino 2 years before he was due and new deal and then they did it again. They did it with Leon Hall. Sam Hubbard. Carlos Dunlap. Carson Palmer. TJ Housh. They could have easily done this with Bates, Higgins, and Chase and saved themselves plenty of money.

 

[cincygrad]

If Trey were a F/A he would be #1 - and I don't think it would be close. Elite DE's > WR unless that WR is a Chase, Jefferson, etc...

The age thing changes the overall value. I think Tee would still be the top rated free agent if both were unrestricted FAs.

 

[Cincyfan78]

The age thing changes the overall value. I think Tee would still be the top rated free agent if both were unrestricted FAs.

Fair - and I do think being 30 is part of the equation - but there are many teams who do not view 30 as an issue - especially if declining play has not been shown on the field. Is there a bit of an added risk? Sure, but positionally - Elite DE's are better than high end #2 WR. No knock on Tee, but in the bigger picture of things, he's a low-level #1 who misses a ton of time due to soft-tissue injuries. Everyone is enamored with his age, which is fine, and beneficial to his long-term playing career expectations, but it shouldn't be the only factor. Just my .02.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

The Bengals have options and the players have options. They could fine guys if they don't practice during camp. They chose not to do so with Ja'Marr last year. The players have slowly grabbed more control with an assist from the owners. Once the owners started guaranteeing deals, it gave more power to the players. You can say that they are screwing Mike Brown over, but I don't think it's so simple. Tee doesn't have to practice if he is tagged. Ja'Marr is going to get paid a big sum this year - he can eat some fines and sit out next year if he wants. I don't think he would, but the damage is already done if he doesn't practice.

Everyone screaming that Tee was going to be gone were not wrong..... It was the plan that he was gone. Particularly with his agent. The players pivoted - Tee changed agents, Burrown went on a PR tour, and now the pressure is on the Bengals. They made assumptions about how they would play it and now the circumstances have changed. They could still stick to their plan, but they better have something to show for it or they will lose faith from their players and fans.

The shit of all of this is that the Bengals were supposed to be a draft and develop your own franchise. And for a long time, they got a lot of this right. They extended Chad multiple times before he ever came up for a new deal. They extended Gino 2 years before he was due and new deal and then they did it again. They did it with Leon Hall. Sam Hubbard. Carlos Dunlap. Carson Palmer. TJ Housh. They could have easily done this with Bates, Higgins, and Chase and saved themselves plenty of money.

To your last point, I think their proactivity with contracts went by the wayside when guaranteed money became a thing. It’s clear the Blackburns/MB are reluctant to accept the new reality of contract structure. Hence this backlog of player extensions they refused to do.

I know everybody is floored by the concept of the Bengals being stubborn and slow to react/accept change LOL.

 

[cincygrad]

Fair - and I do think being 30 is part of the equation - but there are many teams who do not view 30 as an issue - especially if declining play has not been shown on the field. Is there a bit of an added risk? Sure, but positionally - Elite DE's are better than high end #2 WR. No knock on Tee, but in the bigger picture of things, he's a low-level #1 who misses a ton of time due to soft-tissue injuries. Everyone is enamored with his age, which is fine, and beneficial to his long-term playing career expectations, but it shouldn't be the only factor. Just my .02.

A big part of his market is because other receivers at his age and experience have already signed their second deals and aren't on the market. Waddle, Amon-Ra, Aiyuck, Lamb, Jefferson, etc..... The only other receivers on the market are Godwin (coming off injuries), DIggs (injured and a fair amount of baggage), Hopkins (getting old), Amari Cooper (great player but getting older and not explosive) and Hollywood Brown (never quite delivered on his promise). Tee might be a number 2 here, but given the lack of options, there are more than a couple of teams that would value him as a number 1 given the comparisons on the market.

 

[Cincyfan78]

A big part of his market is because other receivers at his age and experience have already signed their second deals and aren't on the market. Waddle, Amon-Ra, Aiyuck, Lamb, Jefferson, etc..... The only other receivers on the market are Godwin (coming off injuries), DIggs (injured and a fair amount of baggage), Hopkins (getting old), Amari Cooper (great player but getting older and not explosive) and Hollywood Brown (never quite delivered on his promise). Tee might be a number 2 here, but given the lack of options, there are more than a couple of teams that would value him as a number 1 given the comparisons on the market.

Agreed. Never said he wouldn't be a #1, but he's not a top 5, or top 10 #1 guy. He's probably in that 18-22 range of #1 WR's, if he's the ONLY guy. He's also a guy that comes off numerous years of missing multiple games due to injuries. Something that is worth pointing out since there's mention of other guys coming off injuries.

If Trey hit the open market he would, likely, be THE #1 DE and not just because of who is or isn't on the market, but because he's a top 3-4-5 DE in the entire NFL. Tee is not in that realm in his position group. Trey is.

None of this is to say I don't like Tee. I love Tee. I hope he stays. But I'm also pretty objective about where I place him in the NFL. He may be the #1 WR on the market for this cycle, but that is more about the cycle than it is about his play. You put Trey last year after 17 sacks, and this year after 17 sacks, and he's the #1 guy out there because he's a top tier, ELITE #1 type DE.

 

[cincygrad]

Agreed. Never said he wouldn't be a #1, but he's not a top 5, or top 10 #1 guy. He's probably in that 18-22 range of #1 WR's, if he's the ONLY guy. He's also a guy that comes off numerous years of missing multiple games due to injuries. Something that is worth pointing out since there's mention of other guys coming off injuries.

If Trey hit the open market he would, likely, be THE #1 DE and not just because of who is or isn't on the market, but because he's a top 3-4-5 DE in the entire NFL. Tee is not in that realm in his position group. Trey is.

None of this is to say I don't like Tee. I love Tee. I hope he stays. But I'm also pretty objective about where I place him in the NFL. He may be the #1 WR on the market for this cycle, but that is more about the cycle than it is about his play. You put Trey last year after 17 sacks, and this year after 17 sacks, and he's the #1 guy out there because he's a top tier, ELITE #1 type DE.

I'm sure there is a disconnect between Tee's representaiton and the Bengals about this very issue. The Bengals likely feel that Tee should be compensated as the best #2 receiver in the league. Tee's representation likely feels that the market dictates the contract and this is a WR market that has only one big trophy which ups his value..... And for the millionth time, is the reason why you cut the deal earlier like Miami did with Waddle or Detroit did with Amon-Ra.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'm sure there is a disconnect between Tee's representaiton and the Bengals about this very issue. The Bengals likely feel that Tee should be compensated as the best #2 receiver in the league. Tee's representation likely feels that the market dictates the contract and this is a WR market that has only one big trophy which ups his value..... And for the millionth time, is the reason why you cut the deal earlier like Miami did with Waddle or Detroit did with Amon-Ra.

On this - we 100% agreed. Bengals are eating more cash because they opted to not act.