How Suh can work under the cap

[Uhsplit]

Dump Okung? I know he's had injury problems but when he's in there he's solid. You want to turn Wilson into more of a pinata than he already is? We've spent a ton of money on defense already and a team with a 20 million dollar QB surrounded by guys making the league minimum on offense just won't cut it.

No sweat bro. You value Okung more than I do.
I value Maxwell over Okung.
In the playoffs, how did Simon do? I did not look at his targets (stats), but in the divisional round against Carolina, Simon gave up 10 passes on 10 targets allowing 2 TDs.
Max never had such a crappy game and in the SB, Simon was probably just as bad again.
Tough decisions will have to be made and I have never been sold on Okung and I say he has not played to the level of the 6th pick in the draft.

 

[WizardHawk]

It's fun to dream but Suh would be stupid to not cash in on this contract. I know it's easy for all of us to say "why should he care? He's a millionaire anyway!" but he's the guy sacrificing his body for a living. If I were in his shoes money would be at least 70% of the equation. It's not like he's 34+ and made the most of his prime earning years. This next contract is for a prime Suh and he's going to cash in. It would be dumb not to. Kind of the fundamental contradiction between fans and players. Fans grind away 40+ hours and watch the games on Sunday to escape. Sunday is the grind for the players.

The only reason Suh would take a lessor contract to play in Seattle is he's from Oregon and would be playing closer to his family and friends. He really doesn't strike me as the sentimental type so I really can't see that draw being enough to turn down several million dollars if playing for a SB contending team alone wouldn't do it.

 

[gohusk]

No sweat bro. You value Okung more than I do.
I value Maxwell over Okung.
In the playoffs, how did Simon do? I did not look at his targets (stats), but in the divisional round against Carolina, Simon gave up 10 passes on 10 targets allowing 2 TDs.
Max never had such a crappy game and in the SB, Simon was probably just as bad again.
Tough decisions will have to be made and I have never been sold on Okung and I say he has not played to the level of the 6th pick in the draft.

There's more to it than that. To close out the first half in the Super Bowl we put up 7 points in like 30 seconds. The offensive game plan is putting too much pressure on the defense and from what I've seen the offense doesn't have problems putting points on the board when there's a gun to their head. Why don't we just go out there and try to score more points? We're about to pay a QB around 20 million a year with a ton of guaranteed money. Give him his tools, let him do his thing, and then we can see how things stand. I like Baldwin and Kearse because they're gamers but they'd be third options on any other team in the league. His #1 target in the Super Bowl was a guy the Seahawks pulled off the street. No time to work up any chemistry and Wilson got him the ball in tight windows and he had a great game.

 

[blstoker]

There's more to it than that. To close out the first half in the Super Bowl we put up 7 points in like 30 seconds. The offensive game plan is putting too much pressure on the defense and from what I've seen the offense doesn't have problems putting points on the board when there's a gun to their head. Why don't we just go out there and try to score more points? We're about to pay a QB around 20 million a year with a ton of guaranteed money. Give him his tools, let him do his thing, and then we can see how things stand. I like Baldwin and Kearse because they're gamers but they'd be third options on any other team in the league. His #1 target in the Super Bowl was a guy the Seahawks pulled off the street. No time to work up any chemistry and Wilson got him the ball in tight windows and he had a great game.

Because that doesn't help the defense. By running a methodical run offense, our defense has the time it needs to rest on the sidelines. The San Diego game shows what can happen to a defense when your offense is too efficient when they have the ball - 7.2 yards per play, all 3 scoring drives lasted less than 3 minutes and only 1 of 10 possessions last more than 4 minutes. This offense is built to support the defense, and it works well - 3rd most wins the last 3 years (36), 2 SB appearances and a chance to be the first team in over 20 years to make it to 3 SBs in a row. We aren't gonna have 4000 yards passing, but our defense hasn't given up 4400 TOTAL yards in either the last 2 seasons, either.

 

[Anointed One]

The only problem is your not finding a starting OT picking 31st and nobody can afford to do without one.

We were very spoiled with Walter Jones... Anyone remember Left Tackles prior to Jones? Very hard position to fill... Okung would be very hard to replace imo...

 

[Uhsplit]

We were very spoiled with Walter Jones... Anyone remember Left Tackles prior to Jones? Very hard position to fill... Okung would be very hard to replace imo...

Yes, Jones spoiled us and I am not holding Okung up to Walter's standards.
We have replaced RO many times due to injury.
2010 missed 6 games.
2011 4 games.
2012 1 game.
2013 8 games. (won SB)
2014 2 games.

Those that replaced him were low round draft picks or slow swing men (McQuistan).

My argument is if we can find a LT that can play almost every game, ala Britt, I say we have equal performance vs a tandem of Okung/Bailey for millions less.
Only Sweezy and Britt have remained healthy. Give me the continuity of playing a unit together over having an occasional pro bowler who eliminates continuity due to injury for more $.

Considering FO's are looking more at D players in early rounds, I believe we could get the second (?) best LT in the draft at 31. Maybe the 3rd best, but health is a major role player in the selection.

...and we are just speculating. I doubt we launch Okung. Maybe he restructures his contract as he has been the highest paid player (I believe) on the team since 2010 and we have not gotten value for his draft status or his contract amount.
Yet, for me Maxwell >Okung as a team need.

 

[Anointed One]

Yet, for me Maxwell >Okung as a team need.

Yes, Okung has been injured... Maxwell, in his first year as a starter missed 3 games as well...

I find it hard to label an average CB over a Pro Bowl LT though... Maxwell would be much, much easier to replace imo than Okung would... Okung was voted the 5th best LT in football in 2012/13...

 

[obxyankeefan]

And Daniel Snyder thought Albert Haynesworth would elevate the Redskins defense, too.

The problem with whoever signs Suh is he handicaps that teams ability to sign free agent in the future. As a Lions fan no way no how do I want to see them resign Suh for JJ Watt money. A DT is not where you put that kind of cash. And if they Franchise him they are stupid..24 million for a single season.

If the Seahawks had Raider type salary cap space or Jacksonville I would say it would be worth it but if you had that type of space you wouldn't be in the Superbowl.

I get why you would compare signing Suh to the Haynseworthless deal. But Suh actually would help Sea's defense, greatly. First off Suh will still play lights out after getting a massive contract. Almost everyone knew, except Snyder, once Fat Albert got paid he wasn't going to work hard and earn his pay status.

Second the Skins had so many holes tying all there cap space to one position would cripple any attempts to strengthen any other area of the teams. Was needed to address its O line more than anything. Thanks to Snyder signing Al there was no chance of that happening.

Third The Redskin was banking on an unproven (to put it nicely) QB in Jason Campbell and an overwhelmed HC in Jim Zorn.

The Seahawks are a complete team with a young core group of players something The Redskins haven't been for a long time. The biggest drawback is retaining and bringing in new talent due to Suh's pricey contract which would be the biggest reason not to get him in a Seahawks uniform.

 

[Uhsplit]

Yes, Okung has been injured... Maxwell, in his first year as a starter missed 3 games as well...

I find it hard to label an average CB over a Pro Bowl LT though... Maxwell would be much, much easier to replace imo than Okung would... Okung was voted the 5th best LT in football in 2012/13...

You make a compelling argument. I say Bailey performed much better in replacing Okung than Simon did in replacing Max, and Simon is a much better athlete than Bailey. In fact

In another thought, this year Russell was pushed to pass more out of the pocket. His coaches wanted him to get rid of the ball quicker. I think he improved a little in that aspect.
In preparing for Brady, the pass rushers had 2.3 seconds to get to the QB then the whistle blew. If RW can get rid of the ball quicker, it puts less reliance on the line.

We are possibly both right and both wrong. I grew to lose some faith in Okung and his leading the team in false starts drives me nuts.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I like Brandon Mebane a lot and he has been a great player for the Seahawks, but what about the possibility of cutting him (would save $5.5m) and adding Suh. Mebane is a very good defensive tackle, but is 30 years old and coming off of a season ending injury. Jordan Hill and Suh would be great in the middle together, as Hill is coming off a season in which he had 5.5 sacks in 6 games from the DT position.

Just some food for thought.

 

[seahawksfan234]

You make a compelling argument. I say Bailey performed much better in replacing Okung than Simon did in replacing Max, and Simon is a much better athlete than Bailey. In fact

In another thought, this year Russell was pushed to pass more out of the pocket. His coaches wanted him to get rid of the ball quicker. I think he improved a little in that aspect.
In preparing for Brady, the pass rushers had 2.3 seconds to get to the QB then the whistle blew. If RW can get rid of the ball quicker, it puts less reliance on the line.

We are possibly both right and both wrong. I grew to lose some faith in Okung and his leading the team in false starts drives me nuts.

Okung is a tough case. At his best, he's a very good LT. At his worst, he's often injured and unsuccessfully tries to play through it.

I will say that an above average LT is a lot harder to find than an above average CB. And with how terrible the Seahawks offensive line currently is, I don't see how we can let Okung walk.

 

[WizardHawk]

I like Brandon Mebane a lot and he has been a great player for the Seahawks, but what about the possibility of cutting him (would save $5.5m) and adding Suh. Mebane is a very good defensive tackle, but is 30 years old and coming off of a season ending injury. Jordan Hill and Suh would be great in the middle together, as Hill is coming off a season in which he had 5.5 sacks in 6 games from the DT position.

Just some food for thought.

Didn't read much of page 1 did you.

We have brought up Mebane and the savings. Of course it wouldn't pay close to half of what it would take to get Suh. And that's the problem. Given the FA's we will be losing, the need to up Wilson and Wagner and whoever we replace those lost FA's with they might still have to part with Mebane without getting Suh just to help with the overall budget.

 

[gohusk]

Because that doesn't help the defense. By running a methodical run offense, our defense has the time it needs to rest on the sidelines. The San Diego game shows what can happen to a defense when your offense is too efficient when they have the ball - 7.2 yards per play, all 3 scoring drives lasted less than 3 minutes and only 1 of 10 possessions last more than 4 minutes. This offense is built to support the defense, and it works well - 3rd most wins the last 3 years (36), 2 SB appearances and a chance to be the first team in over 20 years to make it to 3 SBs in a row. We aren't gonna have 4000 yards passing, but our defense hasn't given up 4400 TOTAL yards in either the last 2 seasons, either.

It doesn't help the defense? It's helps the scoreboard! I'm not talking about implementing a run and gun offense. I'm talking about actually moving the ball early and forcing other teams to throw against us. And you can still burn clock while being more aggressive. Just take the huddle and make sure you don't snap it before 5. And what I'm talking about is Pete's refusal to throw the ball over the middle because it's just too risky. Ironic given how the season ended.

The bottom line is that the only reason what we do works is because Wilson's able to move the ball when the team absolutely needs it. This "just don't turn the ball over because the defense will do it for us" isn't going to work long term and opposing defenses are all over our ultra-conservative offences because our play calling is too predictable. You have to take the points if they're there to get. I'm not talking about some greatest show on turf thing, just let Wilson be Wilson for the full 60 minutes, and not the last 2 of both halves of the game. PC needs a guy with a nut sack to stand up to him on the offensive side of things like he consistently did at USC. Bevell apparently is just going to stand for whatever he dictates. You think a guy like Sark or Chow would put up with this shit?

 

[blstoker]

Reports state that Colts and Dolphins willing to offer huge contracts to Suh, which could include as much as $60 million guaranteed. If true, Seattle isn't in the running for his services....

 

[Uhsplit]

Reports state that Colts and Dolphins willing to offer huge contracts to Suh, which could include as much as $60 million guaranteed. If true, Seattle isn't in the running for his services....

Miami doesn't have lots of cap space, but the Colts have gobs.
I would love Suh on the team, but we will still win the majority of our games this year. We will have roughly 12 picks in the draft this year and that should help immensely with our depth, or lack thereof.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Seattle could make it work but we'd have to SERIOUSLY hit on the draft because Mebane/Okung and Lynch are basically gone next year if we do that. Irvin might also have to go if he continues the high level of play.

Now don't get me wrong, for this year: Bennett, Mebane, Wagner, Avril, Suh, Thomas, Chancellor, Sherman (Hill/Wright/Irvin are great on any other team but MEDIOCRE amongst that cast) would be probably the most scary defense of all time on paper. I really can't think of anything in NFL history that would compare.