How pitching works now (some of you are probably not enthused by this)

[tzill]

Do you know, do “openers” stats count as BP stats?

I believe so.

 

[LHG]

I believe so.

If you look up Leone on BBRef, you'll see that he has 3 starts in his stats line for 2021. So I think those games only count toward bullpen numbers if the stats person is just lumping all relievers' stats together. However, if they are excluding all games where a pitcher starts, I would guess that these opener games are not counting.

 

[LHG]

My guess would be that the opener does not qualify as bullpen. Though, the bulk pitcher likely does count as BP.

Some stat changes that I think are required in today’s game…

1) Get rid of the 5 inning requirement for a starter to get a win. In fact, make the Win stat entirely subjective, like an error/hit is subjective. There should be some guidelines, but the official scorer should have complete discretion in awarding the W.

2) A player does not qualify for a “Start” unless he goes at least 2 or 3 full innings. Anything less than that would be considered an Open instead. Start = throws first pitch of the game and gets AT LEAST 6 (or 9) outs; Open = throws first pitch and gets less than 6 (or 9) outs. Maybe a Start could be a subset of Opens, or vice versa, but I think there needs to be a separation between the two.

3) A new stat, called “Bulk”, would indicate any game in which a pitcher records 12 or more outs (4.0 innings).

4) A new stat, called “Shut Down” would be the same rules as a save, but not at the end of a game. This should replace the Hold (or just redefine the Hold stat). The pitcher must record the 3rd out of the inning to receive credit for a SD.

Some good suggestions. A bit off topic but I'd like to see I'd like to see how both intentional walks and on base by error is counted in the batters' statistics. I don't think that an intentional walk should be in the same category as an unintentional walk. I know I've said this before, but since the pitcher doesn't even throw a pitch, the two incidents don't even look familiar. I think the name should be called something like intentional base given.
As for errors, I don't think they should count as at-bats. Treat them like a hit by pitch by like a sacrifice fly. The former counts towards on base but not or or against batting average. The latter counts toward neither (for or against), it is simply an erased AB.
In fact, maybe intentional base given, errors and sacrifices should all be lumped together into some kind of neutral stat, purely to document that the player made a plate appearance that doesn't otherwise count in their statistical bottom line.

 

[calsnowskier]

I disagree about errors. A ground ball to the 2B that is over thrown was a bad hit by the batter. it should appear as an AB w/o a hit.

 

[calsnowskier]

I do believe that sacrifices should be expanded, though. A ground ball to the 2nd baseman that moves the runner on 2nd to 3rd should be a sac. It baffles me that it is not currently considered such. The batter gets high fives as he returns to the dugout, meaning it was a good outcome. Why is his stat line penalized?

 

[LHG]

I disagree about errors. A ground ball to the 2B that is over thrown was a bad hit by the batter. it should appear as an AB w/o a hit.

How is that much different than taking a pitch on the outside of the plate that the umpire calls ball 4? Both should have been outs but a flub on the part of someone else allows the runner instead of an out.

 

[calsnowskier]

How is that much different than taking a pitch on the outside of the plate that the umpire calls ball 4? Both should have been outs but a flub on the part of someone else allows the runner instead of an out.

Robot umps will solve this issue.

 

[calsnowskier]

How is that much different than taking a pitch on the outside of the plate that the umpire calls ball 4? Both should have been outs but a flub on the part of someone else allows the runner instead of an out.

Seriously, though…

you are introducing too much subjective ness into the stat. The declaration of a ball 8 inches outside is the exact same as a ball skimming the outside corner, but the result is the same. The declaration of an overthrow by the 2B is totally different from a ball hitting the batter in the thigh.

 

[LHG]

Robot umps will solve this issue.

Errors can be subjective too. Will robot umps solve that problem as well?

 

[LHG]

Seriously, though…

you are introducing too much subjective ness into the stat. The declaration of a ball 8 inches outside is the exact same as a ball skimming the outside corner, but the result is the same. The declaration of an overthrow by the 2B is totally different from a ball hitting the batter in the thigh.

Doesn't seem any more subjective than putting the win stat in the hands of the scorer. But that is just my subjective take.

 

[calsnowskier]

Doesn't seem any more subjective than putting the win stat in the hands of the scorer. But that is just my subjective take.

i still suggest there be guidelines. It won’t happen, though, so I am not that interested in fleshing that out.

An error, though, is a bad action by the batter. He is simply bailed out by ineptitude by the fielder. If the fielder were just not brain-dead, the batter would be out.

 

[LHG]

i still suggest there be guidelines. It won’t happen, though, so I am not that interested in fleshing that out.

An error, though, is a bad action by the batter. He is simply bailed out by ineptitude by the fielder. If the fielder were just not brain-dead, the batter would be out.

That is why I suggest some kind of neutral stat in that case. An AB, from my perspective, says that the out was made. But it was not. The hitter neither did something good nor did it result in a bad outcome. And some hits should be considered errors. Maybe a neutral stat would lessen some of those erroneously called hits.

 

[calsnowskier]

That is why I suggest some kind of neutral stat in that case. An AB, from my perspective, says that the out was made. But it was not. The hitter neither did something good nor did it result in a bad outcome. And some hits should be considered errors. Maybe a neutral stat would lessen some of those erroneously called hits.

But it should have been, in a FIP kinda way.

 

[calsnowskier]

But it should have been, in a FIP kinda way.

FIH, if you will…

 

[tzill]

Some good suggestions. A bit off topic but I'd like to see I'd like to see how both intentional walks and on base by error is counted in the batters' statistics. I don't think that an intentional walk should be in the same category as an unintentional walk. I know I've said this before, but since the pitcher doesn't even throw a pitch, the two incidents don't even look familiar. I think the name should be called something like intentional base given.
As for errors, I don't think they should count as at-bats. Treat them like a hit by pitch by like a sacrifice fly. The former counts towards on base but not or or against batting average. The latter counts toward neither (for or against), it is simply an erased AB.
In fact, maybe intentional base given, errors and sacrifices should all be lumped together into some kind of neutral stat, purely to document that the player made a plate appearance that doesn't otherwise count in their statistical bottom line.

Pitching Indifference?

As for RBE, they do (and should) count like a regular out.