How Much Blame Does Baalke Deserve?

[purguy12]

Just give me a top OC for once.

 

[smackdown380]

Just give me a top OC for once.

Norv was awesome but the problem is we get a good OC and next year they are being tapped for HC jobs.

 

[Robotech]

pretty close to my opinion too.

that's how it is when a team starts losing, fans point fingers EVERYWHERE. if we REALLY wanted to connect things, yes Baalke as GM has to share in the blame. But he has done a good job OVERALL, if the talent level starts to drop off NEXT year, then his share increases.

We've pretty much discussed to death the blame that goes to the coaches and players, especially Harbaugh, Kaep, VD, and Roman. It's fair to discuss Baalke's share of the blame for this season. The Yorks, too, but that can be for another thread. Someone mentioned the 2012 draft above. That was a whole draft where we got almost no players. Wow. I think only Joe Looney is still on the team.

As far as Baalke being good overall, I can agree with that, but you could also say that about Harbaugh, Kaep, VD, and Roman if you consider their entire time with the Niners and not just this year.

 

[AU_Fever]

I agree with this. But I think we can get a coach that is very good and an ego that isn't the size of Michigan!

Harbaugh's ego is bigger than the size of Michigan, but I like your comparison.

 

[Chamoanlad]

We've pretty much discussed to death the blame that goes to the coaches and players, especially Harbaugh, Kaep, VD, and Roman. It's fair to discuss Baalke's share of the blame for this season. The Yorks, too, but that can be for another thread. Someone mentioned the 2012 draft above. That was a whole draft where we got almost no players. Wow. I think only Joe Looney is still on the team.

As far as Baalke being good overall, I can agree with that, but you could also say that about Harbaugh, Kaep, VD, and Roman if you consider their entire time with the Niners and not just this year.

I think fans are frustrated with Harbaugh, but only a blind hater would say he isn't a good coach or hasn't done a good job. Roman I'm not so sure about.

There were issues with the play calling in 2011, but everyone agreed with the run first mentality and there were thoughts Alex Smith's quarterbacking was holding back the offense at times. Looking at things now, Alex Smith wasn't holding things back and even though our offense is more talented today, it isn't even as effective as 2011.

2012 there were more issues creeping in like the delay of games and teams stacking the box more. The delay of games were a problem all year and the coaches were too stubborn to fix it and it ultimately cost us the superbowl. Winning and teams not ready for Kap glossed over the issues.

2013 is when we really started to see teams focus on Gore (lowest avg 4.1) and our numbers looked good, but we feasted against bad teams and defenses and struggled offensively against good defenses.

2014 all hell broke loose as teams copied the Seahawk blue print of beating us. 8 in the box with Kam/SS and playing cover 3. Seahawks almost look like playing 6-2 on obvious run downs (and we are obvious) and 4-4 the rest of the time with the linebackers covering the mid zones and the secondary playing deep ball. They know Kap isn't going to check down and it's why we get shut down and he struggles against them.

The same defense in theory should work against the Seahawks as we play similar styles, but the difference is QB since Russel Wilson WILL check down and throws a lot to his RB's etc. Gore/Hyde and etc are usually running open on swings or short outs but they get ignored. Think NFC championship where Quinton Patton was wide open on the left sideline and instead Kap throws to Crab for the INT.

 

[deep9er]

I get the gist of Harbaugh having a big ego, but don't think "ego" is quite the word? Don't get the impression he's conceited at all.

 

[purguy12]

Norv was awesome but the problem is we get a good OC and next year they are being tapped for HC jobs.

true

 

[Robotech]

I think fans are frustrated with Harbaugh, but only a blind hater would say he isn't a good coach or hasn't done a good job. Roman I'm not so sure about.

There were issues with the play calling in 2011, but everyone agreed with the run first mentality and there were thoughts Alex Smith's quarterbacking was holding back the offense at times. Looking at things now, Alex Smith wasn't holding things back and even though our offense is more talented today, it isn't even as effective as 2011.

2012 there were more issues creeping in like the delay of games and teams stacking the box more. The delay of games were a problem all year and the coaches were too stubborn to fix it and it ultimately cost us the superbowl. Winning and teams not ready for Kap glossed over the issues.

2013 is when we really started to see teams focus on Gore (lowest avg 4.1) and our numbers looked good, but we feasted against bad teams and defenses and struggled offensively against good defenses.

2014 all hell broke loose as teams copied the Seahawk blue print of beating us. 8 in the box with Kam/SS and playing cover 3. Seahawks almost look like playing 6-2 on obvious run downs (and we are obvious) and 4-4 the rest of the time with the linebackers covering the mid zones and the secondary playing deep ball. They know Kap isn't going to check down and it's why we get shut down and he struggles against them.

The same defense in theory should work against the Seahawks as we play similar styles, but the difference is QB since Russel Wilson WILL check down and throws a lot to his RB's etc. Gore/Hyde and etc are usually running open on swings or short outs but they get ignored. Think NFC championship where Quinton Patton was wide open on the left sideline and instead Kap throws to Crab for the INT.

This was supposed to be a Baalke thread. LOL. With regard to Harbaugh and Roman, it's hard to know how much blame goes to each guy. I've read that Roman sends down two plays and that Harbaugh is the one who actually picks which play to run. Harbaugh is the head coach and is the one who installed the system, so maybe too much blame is going to Roman.

I don't agree that we are more offensively talented today than in 2011. VD was a beast then and our offensive line back then was a collection of beasts. Those days are gone now. Look at the PFF ratings for our linemen this year compared to years past. Frank Gore was also only 28 years old then. Now he is a 31.5 year old running back.

I would put more blame on the defense and the special teams for the Super Bowl loss than the offense. The defense simply wasn't playing well from the latter part of the regular season and all the way up to the Super Bowl. The special teams gave up a KR TD. Meanwhile, our offense gained a total of 468 yards, averaging 7.8 yards per play. We failed on the game winning drive, but if defensive holding or PI were called on that one play as it should've been, then we might be looking at that Super Bowl game much differently.

The new coaching staff (seems inevitable now) will have to figure something out. We do seem way too predictable and whatever scheme we are using is not working.

 

[deep9er]

This was supposed to be a Baalke thread. LOL. With regard to Harbaugh and Roman, it's hard to know how much blame goes to each guy. I've read that Roman sends down two plays and that Harbaugh is the one who actually picks which play to run. Harbaugh is the head coach and is the one who installed the system, so maybe too much blame is going to Roman.

I don't agree that we are more offensively talented today than in 2011. VD was a beast then and our offensive line back then was a collection of beasts. Those days are gone now. Look at the PFF ratings for our linemen this year compared to years past. Frank Gore was also only 28 years old then. Now he is a 31.5 year old running back.

I would put more blame on the defense and the special teams for the Super Bowl loss than the offense. The defense simply wasn't playing well from the latter part of the regular season and all the way up to the Super Bowl. The special teams gave up a KR TD. Meanwhile, our offense gained a total of 468 yards, averaging 7.8 yards per play. We failed on the game winning drive, but if defensive holding or PI were called on that one play as it should've been, then we might be looking at that Super Bowl game much differently.

The new coaching staff (seems inevitable now) will have to figure something out. We do seem way too predictable and whatever scheme we are using is not working.

no question, but the offense will still start with Kaep so we shouldn't expect big changes so soon. the NFL is a QB driven league, so the 49ers can't move faster than the driver.

This isn't to say we'll miss the play-offs next year or get a losing record, cause think we can still do well with Kaep. But being serious SB contender is another matter.

 

[Robotech]

no question, but the offense will still start with Kaep so we shouldn't expect big changes so soon. the NFL is a QB driven league, so the 49ers can't move faster than the driver.

This isn't to say we'll miss the play-offs next year or get a losing record, cause think we can still do well with Kaep. But being serious SB contender is another matter.

We have a lot of holes to fill before we get back to serious SB contender status.

 

[AU_Fever]

no question, but the offense will still start with Kaep so we shouldn't expect big changes so soon. the NFL is a QB driven league, so the 49ers can't move faster than the driver.

This isn't to say we'll miss the play-offs next year or get a losing record, cause think we can still do well with Kaep. But being serious SB contender is another matter.

Hope you are right, but I have my doubts. It's hard to win football games when you QB throws for less than 200 yards against an awful defensive team like the Raiders. The Rams scored 52 points against them, albeit a couple defensive scores, but Shaun Hill outperformed Kap. That is hard to believe!!

 

[Robotech]

Hope you are right, but I have my doubts. It's hard to win football games when you QB throws for less than 200 yards against an awful defensive team like the Raiders. The Rams scored 52 points against them, albeit a couple defensive scores, but Shaun Hill outperformed Kap. That is hard to believe!!

Kaep's playing terrible, but this is also a team thing. Kaep is not passing well, but even when he throws a good pass, it gets dropped. It's like comedy right now. We've gone to full-blown team suckage at this point. Even our defense and our kicking game sucked against the Raiders. LOL.

Meanwhile, the Rams are playing great team ball right now. Their remaining games against Seattle and Arizona will be very interesting. I'm looking forward to watching those games, but I'm not looking forward to us playing the Rams next season.

 

[AU_Fever]

Kaep's playing terrible, but this is also a team thing. Kaep is not passing well, but even when he throws a good pass, it gets dropped. It's like comedy right now. We've gone to full-blown team suckage at this point. Even our defense and our kicking game sucked against the Raiders. LOL.

Meanwhile, the Rams are playing great team ball right now. Their remaining games against Seattle and Arizona will be very interesting. I'm looking forward to watching those games, but I'm not looking forward to us playing the Rams next season.

A lot of us got so excited when we acquired Johnson and Lloyd as additional weapons for Kap. Looked as though the offense would be proficient. Then Boone held out, A. Davis and Kilgore injury and OL has struggled to protect Kap. But even when Kap had time to throw, receivers either had drops or Kap misfires badly. With the Rams improving, I could see the Niners being cellar dwellers next season. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Chamoanlad]

This was supposed to be a Baalke thread. LOL. With regard to Harbaugh and Roman, it's hard to know how much blame goes to each guy. I've read that Roman sends down two plays and that Harbaugh is the one who actually picks which play to run. Harbaugh is the head coach and is the one who installed the system, so maybe too much blame is going to Roman.

I don't agree that we are more offensively talented today than in 2011. VD was a beast then and our offensive line back then was a collection of beasts. Those days are gone now. Look at the PFF ratings for our linemen this year compared to years past. Frank Gore was also only 28 years old then. Now he is a 31.5 year old running back.

I would put more blame on the defense and the special teams for the Super Bowl loss than the offense. The defense simply wasn't playing well from the latter part of the regular season and all the way up to the Super Bowl. The special teams gave up a KR TD. Meanwhile, our offense gained a total of 468 yards, averaging 7.8 yards per play. We failed on the game winning drive, but if defensive holding or PI were called on that one play as it should've been, then we might be looking at that Super Bowl game much differently.

The new coaching staff (seems inevitable now) will have to figure something out. We do seem way too predictable and whatever scheme we are using is not working.

Oh I'm not blaming the offense for the Superbowl loss. There's a ton of blame to go around for that as well like you mentioned.

What I meant by costing us the Superbowl is we had the perfect play call at the end near the goal line with the Kap run to the left, but we had to call a freaking timeout because the same problem we had for two years with getting the plays off in time showed up yet again. Even the Ravens players and coaches interviewed later said that play caught them by surprise and scared the hell out of them. Despite how the rest of the game went we could have won at the end, but little problems always come back to bite you if not fixed.

 

[darken65]

I think fans are frustrated with Harbaugh, but only a blind hater would say he isn't a good coach or hasn't done a good job. Roman I'm not so sure about.

There were issues with the play calling in 2011, but everyone agreed with the run first mentality and there were thoughts Alex Smith's quarterbacking was holding back the offense at times. Looking at things now, Alex Smith wasn't holding things back and even though our offense is more talented today, it isn't even as effective as 2011.

2012 there were more issues creeping in like the delay of games and teams stacking the box more. The delay of games were a problem all year and the coaches were too stubborn to fix it and it ultimately cost us the superbowl. Winning and teams not ready for Kap glossed over the issues.

2013 is when we really started to see teams focus on Gore (lowest avg 4.1) and our numbers looked good, but we feasted against bad teams and defenses and struggled offensively against good defenses.

2014 all hell broke loose as teams copied the Seahawk blue print of beating us. 8 in the box with Kam/SS and playing cover 3. Seahawks almost look like playing 6-2 on obvious run downs (and we are obvious) and 4-4 the rest of the time with the linebackers covering the mid zones and the secondary playing deep ball. They know Kap isn't going to check down and it's why we get shut down and he struggles against them.

The same defense in theory should work against the Seahawks as we play similar styles, but the difference is QB since Russel Wilson WILL check down and throws a lot to his RB's etc. Gore/Hyde and etc are usually running open on swings or short outs but they get ignored. Think NFC championship where Quinton Patton was wide open on the left sideline and instead Kap throws to Crab for the INT.

Great post! I know that we can blame the OL issues,Kap's progress,VD's regression, WR's dropped balls etc. To me what this comes down to is the playcalling of Roman. Trying to change the strategy on offense and denying that is is just not working is dumb. the clock management has never been fixed. IMO if Harbs had fired Roman last week or this week after the Oakland loss I would have felt he wanted to stay the HC of the 9ers. I feel now that he is just keeping his staff intact for his move elsewhere.
As far as Baalke goes he might want to take some advise about picking skilled postions other than RBs.

 

[AU_Fever]

Great post! I know that we can blame the OL issues,Kap's progress,VD's regression, WR's dropped balls etc. To me what this comes down to is the playcalling of Roman. Trying to change the strategy on offense and denying that is is just not working is dumb. the clock management has never been fixed. IMO if Harbs had fired Roman last week or this week after the Oakland loss I would have felt he wanted to stay the HC of the 9ers. I feel now that he is just keeping his staff intact for his move elsewhere.
As far as Baalke goes he might want to take some advise about picking skilled postions other than RBs.

Agreed. It would behoove the Niners to have a coach who can actually develop receivers. It's long overdue!

 

[purguy12]

I agree receivers have dropped a lot of passes this year. This team will bounce back next year. Too much talent not to win. Get healthy and we will be fine.

Oh yeah get me a new OC.

 

[AU_Fever]

I agree receivers have dropped a lot of passes this year. This team will bounce back next year. Too much talent not to win. Get healthy and we will be fine.

Oh yeah get me a new OC.

You sound like Kap on his presser. Kap will be fine. "We need to execute better." "We need to get better." It sounds like a broken record. I do agree that there is talent, but on the defensive side of the ball. The OL is in shambles, Gore probably won't be back next year, who knows what happens to VD, no real threat from wideouts asides from Boldin. Who knows about Kap? Too many question marks on the offensive side. There is very little talent offensively.

 

[purguy12]

You sound like Kap on his presser. Kap will be fine. "We need to execute better." "We need to get better." It sounds like a broken record. I do agree that there is talent, but on the defensive side of the ball. The OL is in shambles, Gore probably won't be back next year, who knows what happens to VD, no real threat from wideouts asides from Boldin. Who knows about Kap? Too many question marks on the offensive side. There is very little talent offensively.

Oline will be fine next year. Get Kilgore back and a Healthy A. Davis. All good in Niner nation. Gore will be back for less. VD isn't going anywhere unless they trade him.

Im not worried about next year unless Roman comes back.

 

[Louie26]

Harbaugh's ego is bigger than the size of Michigan, but I like your comparison.

LOL! I meant the coach we get, his ego, should have clarified!