How many Finals MVPs for Bill Russell if the Award was around at the time?

[MAGA2024]

I'm gonna say 5, possibly 6:

57: Heinsohn
59: Heinsohn
60: Russell
61: Cousy/Russell
62: Russell
63: Russell
64: Jones
65: Russell
66: Russell
68: Havlicek
69: Havlicek

Combined with 5 regular season MVPs, boatloads of DPOY awards (if it were given out back then), the dominating Rebounding, and the 11 Championships, I'd say that's good enough for #2 all-time behind Jordan, although Jabbar has a pretty srong case for #2 as well.

But that's just me, what say you?.

 

[rmilia1]

I mean its literally called the Bill Russell ba trophy

So 5 may be light. I could see a many as 8

 

[tlance]

I'm gonna say 5, possibly 6:

57: Heinsohn
59: Heinsohn
60: Russell
61: Cousy/Russell
62: Russell
63: Russell
64: Jones
65: Russell
66: Russell
68: Havlicek
69: Havlicek

Combined with 5 regular season MVPs, boatloads of DPOY awards (if it were given out back then), the dominating Rebounding, and the 11 Championships, I'd say that's good enough for #2 all-time behind Jordan, although Jabbar has a pretty srong case for #2 as well.

But that's just me, what say you?.

Not even close.

Because it is solely based on being the best player on the best team in a non-competitive era.

Was Bill Russell a better basketball player than big men like:

Karl Malone
David Robinson
Patrick Ewing
Anthony Davis

Once we start comparing skills, stats doing eye test and actually evaluating what players can do, he isn’t on the level of players listed above.

And none of these guys have a legit case for top 10. Some are not even top 20-25.

Trying to rank him ahead of players like:

LeBron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Shaq, Jokic and even Wilt

Is utter nonsense

 

[eaglesnut]

It's Wilt and Jordan and then everybody else.

What were those guys' numbers in the Celtics series? Then that topic would be worth a discussion.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Was Bill Russell a better basketball player than big men like:

Karl Malone
David Robinson
Patrick Ewing
Anthony Davis

Yanking earlier players out of time and comparing them to later players is a dishonest trade. Later players had far better training, knowledge, etc. If Russell actually practiced shots outside of 15 ft with modern knowledge of shooting form and technique alone his game elevates. Don’t be a hack

 

[tlance]

Yanking earlier players out of time and comparing them to later players is a dishonest trade. Later players had far better training, knowledge, etc. If Russell actually practiced shots outside of 15 ft with modern knowledge of shooting form and technique alone his game elevates. Don’t be a hack

And earlier players had literally zero competition.

NBA back then was comparable to MLS today.

The best athletes payed other sports.

I am sure he would be better offensively today. But he would face athletic peers every night.

He only had to do that when he played Wilt.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

And earlier players had literally zero competition.

“Literally zero”… LOL. You just contradicted yourself.

The best athletes payed other sports.

Same argument could be made today

I am sure he would be better offensively today. But he would face athletic peers every night.

He only had to do that when he played Wilt.

Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, Elvin Hayes, Wayne Embry, Wes Unseld.. just stop.

You seem to believe the disinformation that Millennials and Gen Z are passing around about old times to elevate their generations. A hot take from JJ Reddick isn’t necessarily a truth

 

[tlance]

“Literally zero”… LOL. You just contradicted yourself.

Same argument could be made today


Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, Elvin Hayes, Wayne Embry, Wes Unseld.. just stop.

You seem to believe the disinformation that Millennials and Gen Z are passing around about old times to elevate their generations. A hot take from JJ Reddick isn’t necessarily a truth

LOL.

Russell retired after Unseld and Hayes’ rookie year.

Thurmond overlapped with Russell for 5 seasons.

Bellamy was a solid player.

Wayne Embry?

Now who are you kidding?

This list really proves my point.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

And earlier players had literally zero competition.

NBA back then was comparable to MLS today.

The best athletes payed other sports.

I am sure he would be better offensively today. But he would face athletic peers every night.

He only had to do that when he played Wilt.

I could make a similar argument for MJ if I wanted to be dishonest.

If I pulled MJ from the early/mid 90’s and put him on the court today, he would not be nearly as dominant as he was back then. He wouldn’t have Ehlo, Hornacek, Majarle, Starks, etc to pick on. He’d have far more athletic, longer players to deal with

 

[tlance]

I could make a similar argument for MJ if I wanted to be dishonest.

If I pulled MJ from the early/mid 90’s and put him on the court today, he would not be nearly as dominant as he was back then. He wouldn’t have Ehlo, Hornacek, Majarle, Starks, etc to pick on. He’d have far more athletic, longer players to deal with

Yes, or course that is true.

But the NBA was a destination career by the time Jordan was in his prime. The money was there. It was attracting the best athletes in the US unlike Russell’s era.

Today it is the best athletes across the world.

So if Jordan faced 75% of the competition current players face, Russell had about 10%.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

So if Jordan faced 75% of the competition current players face, Russell had about 10%.

Not quite these percentages.. did Russell take your lunch money or something? both faced the competition in front for them.

You want to rip people out of their era. I take into account the progression of training, nutrition, supplements, play strategy, and technique knowledge. You want to play “eye test”, when any player today would look exactly like players in the 60’s if they had the same dynamics.

You’re a part of this new movement that want to discredit all players from the 60’s… it never existed when I grew up. It’s weird, it doesn’t make sense, it’s dishonest.. I don’t consider you much of a historian based on this

 

[tlance]

Not quite these percentages.. did Russell take your lunch money or something? both faced the competition in front for them.

You want to rip people out of their era. I take into account the progression of training, nutrition, supplements, play strategy, and technique knowledge. You want to play “eye test”, when any player today would look exactly like players in the 60’s if they had the same dynamics.

You’re a part of this new movement that want to discredit all players from the 60’s… it never existed when I grew up. It’s weird, it doesn’t make sense, it’s dishonest.. I don’t consider you much of a historian based on this

For his career, 6’10” Bull Russell shot 44% and scored 15 points per game against mediocre competition compared to modern players.

Automatically disqualified.

There have been far too many great players to come along to pretend that a defensive specialist belongs in the all time great conversation.

Too many players have been great on both ends of the court.

Russell wasn’t.

 

[tlance]

Not quite these percentages.. did Russell take your lunch money or something? both faced the competition in front for them.

You want to rip people out of their era. I take into account the progression of training, nutrition, supplements, play strategy, and technique knowledge. You want to play “eye test”, when any player today would look exactly like players in the 60’s if they had the same dynamics.

You’re a part of this new movement that want to discredit all players from the 60’s… it never existed when I grew up. It’s weird, it doesn’t make sense, it’s dishonest.. I don’t consider you much of a historian based on this

You are the one starting the thread to bring out this conversation.

We can only evaluate what we see.

And players today are just so much better.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

You are the one starting the thread to bring out this conversation.

I didn’t start it

We can only evaluate what we see.

And players today are just so much better.

I’ll reply again:

You want to rip people out of their era. I take into account the progression of training, nutrition, supplements, play strategy, and technique knowledge. You want to play “eye test”, when any player today would look exactly like players in the 60’s if they had the same dynamics.

 

[tlance]

I didn’t start it

I’ll reply again:

You want to rip people out of their era. I take into account the progression of training, nutrition, supplements, play strategy, and technique knowledge. You want to play “eye test”, when any player today would look exactly like players in the 60’s if they had the same dynamics.

My mistake.

I have no idea

But probably a lot better than what Russell faced

 

[DJ Fieri]

Not even close.

Because it is solely based on being the best player on the best team in a non-competitive era.

Was Bill Russell a better basketball player than big men like:

Karl Malone
David Robinson
Patrick Ewing
Anthony Davis

Once we start comparing skills, stats doing eye test and actually evaluating what players can do, he isn’t on the level of players listed above.

And none of these guys have a legit case for top 10. Some are not even top 20-25.

Trying to rank him ahead of players like:

LeBron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Shaq, Jokic and even Wilt

Is utter nonsense

Lance bringing the accuracy and knowledge...

 

[trojanfan12]

 

[Thruthefog]

And earlier players had literally zero competition.

NBA back then was comparable to MLS today.

The best athletes payed other sports.

I am sure he would be better offensively today. But he would face athletic peers every night.

He only had to do that when he played Wilt.

LOL @ Wilt being athletic.

 

[trojanfan12]

LOL @ Wilt being athletic.

He was, especially for his era.

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

I'd give him '62, '63, '65 and '66.