Homegrown Talent Playoff Teams Edition

[NWinAZ]

I just did a quick read and it listed the homegrown players of each playoff team this year (Playoff roster players)

Cardinals - 18
Reds - 13
Braves - 12
Red Sox - 9
Dodgers - 9
Pirates - 8
Rays - 7
Tigers - 7
A's - 4
Indians - 4

What does it all mean? Nothing really. It just shows there are different ways to construct a playoff team.

Here is the link. You can go from team to team within article:
How they were built: St. Louis Cardinals | cardinals.com: News

 

[cezero]

No team is consistently above .500 unless they have a FO that can manipulate FA purchases, trades, and stock the farm.

You won't find teams consistently in the playoff hunt otherwise.

It's not a random confluence of events that makes these things happen.

 

[NWinAZ]

I totally agree it has to be a combination of things. What a lot of fans forget when it comes to free agents vs the draft is that the good teams get the use of free agents and then get a sandwich pick between rounds 1 and 2 after they leave. You get the both of best worlds that way and Seattle is in perfect position to do this since it won't cost them a 1st round pick this year when signing free agents.

Bad teams need to use all their resources to gain more talent. Not sure we have in excess to trade for need positions so free agency has to be looked at. I would rather see them go after 3- upgrades via free agency than one big free agent. We are more than one free agent away from contending. I expect a lot of 'C' type player moves.

 

[cezero]

I thought NW had me on ignore? Glad that's not the case.

I get what you were saying now, and I agree.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

I really think the Cardinals and Braves lay the blueprint for developing home grown talent.

I think my beloved Cubs are well on our way to growing our own talent.

I think the recipe for sustained success is to draft well year in and year out, and have the personnel to develop your talent. Cardinals seem to never miss a beat in this regard.

 

[NWinAZ]

I really think the Cardinals and Braves lay the blueprint for developing home grown talent.

I think my beloved Cubs are well on our way to growing our own talent.

I think the recipe for sustained success is to draft well year in and year out, and have the personnel to develop your talent. Cardinals seem to never miss a beat in this regard.

I totally agree with the premise and your examples, but it is a low percentage way of doing so if it is your only course of action like it seems to be with the M's. It took Tampa 11 or 12 years I believe to make the playoffs using this method and now they are treading water trying to keep what they have while trading others for younger, cheaper guys. I am not sure how Cardinals and Braves seem to consistently hit not only on players they hit on major players.

I believe you need talent from the draft on a yearly to a semi-yearly basis to contribute, but I also believe you need veteran players on the team to help them or protect them and that is where I believe you need to use any method you can to get those guys. Morales was the first real veteran get for this team that meets the criteria of a useful vet and he may be gone after one year. Morse was worth the risk, but he just didn't work out. I applaud the attempt and it really didn't cost them much. We just need about 4 of those moves to work next year who can be added to the young players and then keep churning out more young talent as we go.

 

[NWinAZ]

I thought NW had me on ignore? Glad that's not the case.

I get what you were saying now, and I agree.

Not sure why you would think that, but it was never the case. I may not always agree with you, but that is what makes this thing fun. I just haven't responded to many topics lately because the M's have sucked the baseball life out of me each year and I just get tired of it but I love baseball. They are like a bad addiction.

 

[wazzu31]

I totally agree with the premise and your examples, but it is a low percentage way of doing so if it is your only course of action like it seems to be with the M's. It took Tampa 11 or 12 years I believe to make the playoffs using this method and now they are treading water trying to keep what they have while trading others for younger, cheaper guys. I am not sure how Cardinals and Braves seem to consistently hit not only on players they hit on major players.

I believe you need talent from the draft on a yearly to a semi-yearly basis to contribute, but I also believe you need veteran players on the team to help them or protect them and that is where I believe you need to use any method you can to get those guys. Morales was the first real veteran get for this team that meets the criteria of a useful vet and he may be gone after one year. Morse was worth the risk, but he just didn't work out. I applaud the attempt and it really didn't cost them much. We just need about 4 of those moves to work next year who can be added to the young players and then keep churning out more young talent as we go.

I kind of disagree in a sense in using St Louis and Tampa as examples because of Seattle's history of developing a star position player and sorry, Ichiro was a star and HOFer but he never put fear in the other team as a guy who could tie it up with one swing of the bat. Tampa collected tons of pitching and nice position talent for years but it took for Longoria to bust onto the scene in order for them to take that next step. Carl Crawford was a solid player and they seemed to always have good pitching but unless you have that one offensive superstar it seems massively a stretch to build with homegrown guys. The example I would love for the M's to use is the 90's Yankees version. Influx young talent with a couple of big moves and taking chances on a few chances on free agents.

And with the "Big 3" and Maurer I just hope the Mariners use that as trade chips while all have value instead of the way Pat Gillick killed the organization by holding all of them until there was no value.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

I totally agree with the premise and your examples, but it is a low percentage way of doing so if it is your only course of action like it seems to be with the M's. It took Tampa 11 or 12 years I believe to make the playoffs using this method and now they are treading water trying to keep what they have while trading others for younger, cheaper guys. I am not sure how Cardinals and Braves seem to consistently hit not only on players they hit on major players.

I believe you need talent from the draft on a yearly to a semi-yearly basis to contribute, but I also believe you need veteran players on the team to help them or protect them and that is where I believe you need to use any method you can to get those guys. Morales was the first real veteran get for this team that meets the criteria of a useful vet and he may be gone after one year. Morse was worth the risk, but he just didn't work out. I applaud the attempt and it really didn't cost them much. We just need about 4 of those moves to work next year who can be added to the young players and then keep churning out more young talent as we go.

I agree.

St Louis is a big baseball market, so they draft well, develop their talent, and then add guys like Beltran and Holiday around the home grown players, which equals winning clubs every single season.

The Cubs may have a top system in baseball right now, and when it comes time we'll also spend the money since we are a huge baseball market.

Your M's may be looking to do this as well. Morse was a nice attempt. Now how about going out and getting maybe the best lead off man in baseball in Ellsbury. A FA signing here and there put around a mostly home grown ball club will usually lead to success.

 

[NWinAZ]

"And with the "Big 3" and Maurer I just hope the Mariners use that as trade chips while all have value instead of the way Pat Gillick killed the organization by holding all of them until there was no value."

Walker has 'A' grade trade value
Paxton has 'B' grade trade value
Maurer has 'C' grade trade value
Hultzen has 'F' grade trade value.

Trading any or all only gets us one or two at max legit MLB hitters and we are 4 minimum MLB bats away from being good. We need to add w/o subtraction which is difficult to do I know, but it is our only hope. Take a chance on Braun by giving up Franklin and Maurer would make us better. Put Ackley bat to 2B and add Ellsbury and a legit 1B while keeping Morales would turn this lineup around while still keeping out staff together. Not sexy, but maybe plausible.

 

[cezero]

I kind of disagree in a sense in using St Louis and Tampa as examples because of Seattle's history of developing a star position player and sorry, Ichiro was a star and HOFer but he never put fear in the other team as a guy who could tie it up with one swing of the bat. Tampa collected tons of pitching and nice position talent for years but it took for Longoria to bust onto the scene in order for them to take that next step. Carl Crawford was a solid player and they seemed to always have good pitching but unless you have that one offensive superstar it seems massively a stretch to build with homegrown guys. The example I would love for the M's to use is the 90's Yankees version. Influx young talent with a couple of big moves and taking chances on a few chances on free agents.

And with the "Big 3" and Maurer I just hope the Mariners use that as trade chips while all have value instead of the way Pat Gillick killed the organization by holding all of them until there was no value.

I'd add that the M's never developed Ichiro.

They paid $27 million for him for 3 years straight out of Japan. He was already developed in every sense of the word.

 

[NWinAZ]

I'd add that the M's never developed Ichiro.

They paid $27 million for him for 3 years straight out of Japan. He was already developed in every sense of the word.

My opinion as well. He was a free agent signing and was well developed before M got their hands on him...luckily.

 

[wazzu31]

"And with the "Big 3" and Maurer I just hope the Mariners use that as trade chips while all have value instead of the way Pat Gillick killed the organization by holding all of them until there was no value."

Walker has 'A' grade trade value
Paxton has 'B' grade trade value
Maurer has 'C' grade trade value
Hultzen has 'F' grade trade value.

Trading any or all only gets us one or two at max legit MLB hitters and we are 4 minimum MLB bats away from being good. We need to add w/o subtraction which is difficult to do I know, but it is our only hope. Take a chance on Braun by giving up Franklin and Maurer would make us better. Put Ackley bat to 2B and add Ellsbury and a legit 1B while keeping Morales would turn this lineup around while still keeping out staff together. Not sexy, but maybe plausible.

That's why I was excusing Ichiro from my comments.

I haven't looked at what real value is then my bad. Just with all the baseball "guru's" always talking about the big 3 I'd figure that Paxton and Hultzen would command more value. My whole point on that was there is trade value then trade or combo deal them unlike what Gillick did when he held onto to all their top studs and became worthless and started to the downward spiral with the farm system.

 

[wazzu31]

"And with the "Big 3" and Maurer I just hope the Mariners use that as trade chips while all have value instead of the way Pat Gillick killed the organization by holding all of them until there was no value."

Walker has 'A' grade trade value
Paxton has 'B' grade trade value
Maurer has 'C' grade trade value
Hultzen has 'F' grade trade value.

Trading any or all only gets us one or two at max legit MLB hitters and we are 4 minimum MLB bats away from being good. We need to add w/o subtraction which is difficult to do I know, but it is our only hope. Take a chance on Braun by giving up Franklin and Maurer would make us better. Put Ackley bat to 2B and add Ellsbury and a legit 1B while keeping Morales would turn this lineup around while still keeping out staff together. Not sexy, but maybe plausible.

Damn, I can't figure out this quoting shit. If the M's do go after Ellsbury wouldn't it more sense to use Miller in a deal over Franklin?

 

[NWinAZ]

Damn, I can't figure out this quoting shit. If the M's do go after Ellsbury wouldn't it more sense to use Miller in a deal over Franklin?

I like Miller better plus a SS is harder to replace than a 2B which we have Ackley and Romero who could play there if need be.

I did read an ESPN or SI writer talk about M's being a trade partner for Reyes using Miller as traded player. I like Reyes, but he stays as healthy as Ellsbury which is scary bad.

 

[Thisnamewasntaken]

I really think the Cardinals and Braves lay the blueprint for developing home grown talent.

I think my beloved Cubs are well on our way to growing our own talent.

I think the recipe for sustained success is to draft well year in and year out, and have the personnel to develop your talent. Cardinals seem to never miss a beat in this regard.

I have a feeling about the Cubs n the near future... But I also had a feeling about Justin Smoak. So who really knows... My 6th sense has been off.

 

[wazzu31]

I like Miller better plus a SS is harder to replace than a 2B which we have Ackley and Romero who could play there if need be.

I did read an ESPN or SI writer talk about M's being a trade partner for Reyes using Miller as traded player. I like Reyes, but he stays as healthy as Ellsbury which is scary bad.

I like Miller too but getting Ellsbury would leave Miller will no future spot in the order if he reaches his "potential" I think Franklin is fine at SS and plus having a switch hitter over stock piling the team full of lefties but that's just my thoughts

 

[NWinAZ]

I use to prefer switch hitters over one-sided hitters until I started seeing that the switch hitters are rarely an advantage because they tend to stink at one side of the plate anyways (see Smoak for one). I also don't believe Franklin will be the same hitter as Miller in the long run. Just my opinion on it, but he has never really impressed me other than that 3 week start he had. I wouldn't give Franklin away, but if I could get a legit MLB bat in return I make the deal. Miller for me just has the special 'It' factor.