Hendrickson, Higgins, and Chase

[Cincyfan78]

I don't know if that is true - I thought the injury guarantee was an NFL/NFLPA thing...but, I do know Stewart said that the negotiation part played a role, as currently the Bengals are slotting Stewart under last year's pick at 17. So, maybe they were far enough a part that he didn't want to participate.

At the end of the day, as long as this doesn't drag out into some stupid long-term thing, it's much ado-about nothing, IMO.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Bengals don't like to be burned with players that are advancing in age. remember the whole Andrew Whitworth debacle?

I don't have a great feeling about this, but on the other hand, Trey knows how to play the position, the younger players need the reps. If Trey starts in week 2 after holding out, it's not the end of the world. it may all work out. if he sits out the entire season, that would probably cost him money, and he would likely be missing out on playing and possibly making a playoff run if we've improved enough on defense. we need to be at least mediocre or competent, I would hope.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Bengals don't like to be burned with players that are advancing in age. remember the whole Andrew Whitworth debacle?

I don't have a great feeling about this, but on the other hand, Trey knows how to play the position, the younger players need the reps. If Trey starts in week 2 after holding out, it's not the end of the world. it may all work out. if he sits out the entire season, that would probably cost him money, and he would likely be missing out on playing and possibly making a playoff run if we've improved enough on defense. we need to be at least mediocre or competent, I would hope.

Maybe Trey sits, maybe he doesn't...but I'll continue to say: If he wants another contract, he cannot sit for long. He'll be 31 and having a bad stretch, even a small one after a layoff, is going to cost him a lot of money. He'll lose money sitting out and he'll lose money on the contract.

Again - he may not care about this. If he doesn't, then he has a bit more leverage than maybe the Bengals think...but in the end, if he wants to play and he wants a new contract going forward...his age works against him in a number of ways.

Also - clearly teams around the league are also hesitant...he's said he doesn't want to break the bank (doesn't need Garrett money) and the Bengals really were only looking for a 1st/3rd combo (I think), which compared to what the DE last year was traded for, and what Garrett was rumored to be worth on the trade market (Multiple 1st round picks)...is not asking for the universe...yet teams didn't really offer up more than a 3rd rounder...I don't think I even heard anything about a team trying to offer up a 2nd rounder...so...yeah.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Trey today:

Trey Hendrickson statement today to ESPN: “No communication has taken place between my camp and the organization post draft. The offers prior to the draft did not reflect the vision we shared and were promised last offseason if I continued to play at a high level. Coaches are aware of these past conversations. Rather than using collaboration to get us to a point to bring me home to the team, THEY are no longer communicating. I have been eagerly awaiting a resolution of this situation, but that’s hard to do when there is no discussion and an evident lack of interest in reaching mutual goals.”

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Trey today:

Trey Hendrickson statement today to ESPN: “No communication has taken place between my camp and the organization post draft. The offers prior to the draft did not reflect the vision we shared and were promised last offseason if I continued to play at a high level. Coaches are aware of these past conversations. Rather than using collaboration to get us to a point to bring me home to the team, THEY are no longer communicating. I have been eagerly awaiting a resolution of this situation, but that’s hard to do when there is no discussion and an evident lack of interest in reaching mutual goals.”

That is about as straight forward as it goes.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Just trade him to the Redskins already. They are expected to have like $72 million in cap space available. They want to replace Fowler, and they don't have a second round pick next year, so they may have to ante up the 1st rounder in order to acquire him. They are an NFC Championship participant last year with a young, cheap QB for the next several years. If you are going to spend big money on a guy like Hendrickson, now is the time.

We trade the Redskins our 3rd rounder and Hendrickson for their 1st rounder. Call it a day and get rid of the drama going into training camp. This sounds like a Bengals issue more than a Hendrickson issue during negotiations. He wants to deal, they are not going to. So if you are not going to deal, cut your ties and let it go.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Just trade him to the Redskins already. They are expected to have like $72 million in cap space available. They want to replace Fowler, and they don't have a second round pick next year, so they may have to ante up the 1st rounder in order to acquire him. They are an NFC Championship participant last year with a young, cheap QB for the next several years. If you are going to spend big money on a guy like Hendrickson, now is the time.

We trade the Redskins our 3rd rounder and Hendrickson for their 1st rounder. Call it a day and get rid of the drama going into training camp. This sounds like a Bengals issue more than a Hendrickson issue during negotiations. He wants to deal, they are not going to. So if you are not going to deal, cut your ties and let it go.

Redskins have to be willing to part with what the Bengals want.

This is the rub. Now, I'm only speculating here, but if the Bengals are asking for a 1st and a 3rd, that is reasonable based on last year's DE that was traded to the Bears and what Garrett was reportedly going to be worth before they got him to extend his contract in Cleveland.

So, either the Bengals asking price is too high, or teams don't view Trey as highly as he does himself, or the Bengals do in terms of return value. Either way, that means it makes way more sense for Trey to return to the Bengals and either play out his contract, or sit out the full year and hit the market next year. Due to his age, IMO, it makes more sense to play out the contract.

The issue here is, though, other teams are not valuing Trey in a trade piece, or in combination with a contract extension though he's said he's not looking to be the highest paid.

It's easy to sit back here and just say "Well, then trade him to XXX" but you have to have a willing dance partner who is either going to dance to the song you choose OR offer up another song that you are willing to dance. Currently, none of that is happening - and considering how much immediate attention Garrett got when he might have been on the open market, and the lack of the same kind of enthusiasm for Trey...It really seems like even other NFL teams are simply not valuing Trey as highly as he is valuing himself - right, wrong, or indifferent - his representation has been unable to procure any kind of reasonable exchange for his services to be traded to another team...and the Bengals are not going to take less than what they feel his worth is to them, nor should they.

Bengals aren't getting off free here, either, because honestly they should just find a way to extend him and pay him. Especially if they did tell him last year "Go out, do it again, and we'll negotiate" and then he did, and now they aren't. However, that would little surprise anyone who has followed the Bengals for any length of time. They operate as a poverty franchise.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Redskins have to be willing to part with what the Bengals want.

This is the rub. Now, I'm only speculating here, but if the Bengals are asking for a 1st and a 3rd, that is reasonable based on last year's DE that was traded to the Bears and what Garrett was reportedly going to be worth before they got him to extend his contract in Cleveland.

So, either the Bengals asking price is too high, or teams don't view Trey as highly as he does himself, or the Bengals do in terms of return value. Either way, that means it makes way more sense for Trey to return to the Bengals and either play out his contract, or sit out the full year and hit the market next year. Due to his age, IMO, it makes more sense to play out the contract.

The issue here is, though, other teams are not valuing Trey in a trade piece, or in combination with a contract extension though he's said he's not looking to be the highest paid.

It's easy to sit back here and just say "Well, then trade him to XXX" but you have to have a willing dance partner who is either going to dance to the song you choose OR offer up another song that you are willing to dance. Currently, none of that is happening - and considering how much immediate attention Garrett got when he might have been on the open market, and the lack of the same kind of enthusiasm for Trey...It really seems like even other NFL teams are simply not valuing Trey as highly as he is valuing himself - right, wrong, or indifferent - his representation has been unable to procure any kind of reasonable exchange for his services to be traded to another team...and the Bengals are not going to take less than what they feel his worth is to them, nor should they.

Bengals aren't getting off free here, either, because honestly they should just find a way to extend him and pay him. Especially if they did tell him last year "Go out, do it again, and we'll negotiate" and then he did, and now they aren't. However, that would little surprise anyone who has followed the Bengals for any length of time. They operate as a poverty franchise.

I was suggesting a trade that isn't anywhere near that steep.

If the Commanders do very well again, you are looking at a late 1st rounder. Then, you are getting Hendrickson AND the Bengals 3rd round pick. Basically swapping a 3rd for a 1st to get Hendrickson and his 35 sacks over the last two years.

If the Bengals just wanted a 1st, then I can see the Commanders starting to bulk at contract value, and age. Not sure Washington would even want to do this kind of trade. But there has to be value there somewhere to trade Hendrickson if they are not going to sign him.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I was suggesting a trade that isn't anywhere near that steep.

If the Commanders do very well again, you are looking at a late 1st rounder. Then, you are getting Hendrickson AND the Bengals 3rd round pick. Basically swapping a 3rd for a 1st to get Hendrickson and his 35 sacks over the last two years.

If the Bengals just wanted a 1st, then I can see the Commanders starting to bulk at contract value, and age. Not sure Washington would even want to do this kind of trade. But there has to be value there somewhere to trade Hendrickson if they are not going to sign him.

I'm sure there is value - the issue is the Bengals value him at X and other teams are valuing him at Y. This isn't really uncommon because the Bengals value him in their system more than maybe another team would, though they still would value him. That's why you typically don't see a lot of major name trades - because the buying team often has to "over pay" in a sense to give enough value for the return team.

I think the Bengals should sign him - and I think his contract would be reasonable. I understand the age portion vs return production - but Trey is showing no signs of slowing down, and even if you get him for 3 more years and he only gets to 7-10 sacks on a declining scale as he ages - you are still getting a good value return - because even as he ages out a bit, teams are still going to heavily shift their focus to him. That means other players can benefit. So, I think the Bengals in this instance, as in others, need to bend more.

But, if it comes to a trade - I understand why they don't bend. They'd rather get him at 16M for 1 more year, and let him go to F/A and probably get a comp pick in the 3rd, than trade him now for a pick that won't come for another year, and no assurance that they can replace that production this year. If a trade was going to go down, it needed to go down well before F/A and the draft. That ship has sailed, IMO.

Either they come to an agreement, or Trey is going to be faced with a huge decision on whether to play, or not, and how much to sit out if he does. I've been staunch on this - as he turns 31 this year...sitting out honestly doesn't work in his favor, IMO, simply because this isn't a young guy with years to give...Trey is likely in his final 3-4ish years of playing...sitting out 1 of those years, or coming back and playing poorly in a small stretch, is going to give teams pause - teams that already aren't willing to part with compensation and pay him...

 

[Cincyfan78]

And - what I mean by overpaying is - The Bengals value his 35 sacks in 2 years at a 1st and 3rd round (not swap, straight trade). His production is worth that to the Bengals. Another team has to value that production at a 1st/3rd but also extend him to make it worthwhile. Again, he turns 31...so the buying team now has to risk the drop-off on the back-end of his career. However, that's not really the Bengals' problem. They are losing 35 sacks over 2 years of production and that comes at a cost. The fact that other team don't want to spend that AND extend Trey speaks more to what teams think about his long-term valuations...which is why he's more valuable to the Bengals than to other teams.

These trades typically work better when the player has a clear path to 4-5-6 more years in the league (Think Watson at the time, or even Hill to Miami). You don't normally see these kinds of trades with guys in the back-ends of their careers unless the production has already started to slip, and then there is a lessening of the value of said player to the selling team. Trey has actually been accelerating, not slowing down, which has put this in a bit of an unusual situation, IMO.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

And - what I mean by overpaying is - The Bengals value his 35 sacks in 2 years at a 1st and 3rd round (not swap, straight trade). His production is worth that to the Bengals. Another team has to value that production at a 1st/3rd but also extend him to make it worthwhile. Again, he turns 31...so the buying team now has to risk the drop-off on the back-end of his career. However, that's not really the Bengals' problem. They are losing 35 sacks over 2 years of production and that comes at a cost. The fact that other team don't want to spend that AND extend Trey speaks more to what teams think about his long-term valuations...which is why he's more valuable to the Bengals than to other teams.

These trades typically work better when the player has a clear path to 4-5-6 more years in the league (Think Watson at the time, or even Hill to Miami). You don't normally see these kinds of trades with guys in the back-ends of their careers unless the production has already started to slip, and then there is a lessening of the value of said player to the selling team. Trey has actually been accelerating, not slowing down, which has put this in a bit of an unusual situation, IMO.

What value does he serve the Bengals if he sits out? Is it in his best interest, not at all. But if he is willing to stand his ground, what value does he bring the Bengals as they draw t he line in the sand and say it isn't going to happen?

 

[Cincyfan78]

What value does he serve the Bengals if he sits out? Is it in his best interest, not at all. But if he is willing to stand his ground, what value does he bring the Bengals as they draw t he line in the sand and say it isn't going to happen?

Agreed...there's a game to be played here. Bengals will bet that he'll play because he has to show that at, nearly, 31 - he's still elite enough to get paid after this year. That is, IMO, what they are betting on.

If that does matter to Trey - then...he'll play. If it doesn't, he'll sit. Bengals will still get a 3rd rounder, which is about what is being offered now, in compensation when he leaves in F/A.

So, if a team isn't willing to offer up a high enough offer...then the Bengals will play the long game, bet that he'll play at some point because it's in his bet interest to do so, and if he truly sits out nearly all year - then when he leaves via F/A - they'll still get a future 3rd OR they can tag/trade him then - and take a more immediate draft pick, even if it's not what they were hoping for.

So...the Bengals still have a lot of leverage here. Trey's only real leverage is to tell the Bengals - either you are signing me now, or I'll simply retire. At that point - the Bengals lose Trey this year, and have no hope for future compensation. That's really Trey's only leverage play. Even sitting out and returning at some point doesn't prevent them from doing a tag/trade and receiving something in return.