Hendrickson, Higgins, and Chase

[DanBengalfan]

makes me wonder if they ever actually watch the games.

 

[DanBengalfan]

all they had to do was get a copy of Garrett's contract.

snr Browns for Bengals
snr his name for Trey's name
save as pdf, print.

offer the contract

he signs the contract

done in 5 minutes.

done and off to a fast start for 2025 going 4-0.


instead, he will likely hold out, we will give up 50 points a game and start the season 0-4.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

all they had to do was get a copy of Garrett's contract.

snr Browns for Bengals
snr his name for Trey's name
save as pdf, print.

offer the contract

he signs the contract

done in 5 minutes.

done and off to a fast start for 2025 going 4-0.


instead, he will likely hold out, we will give up 50 points a game and start the season 0-4.

I would be against that. Chase signed the highest contract in NFL history non-QB, and topped Garrett by 1 million dollars total. Garrett's contract is for 4 years, no way in hell we are giving Trey 4 years at $40 million. As I said, might be able to do a 2 year extension on what he already has for this year, front load the contract, allow the Bengals an out in the final year, while giving Trey 80% of his money in the next two years. 2 years / $72 million

 

[CrashDavisSports]

What do you think of this mock projected trade?

MSN

Not 100% on player being selected, but....interesting thoughts.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I would be against that. Chase signed the highest contract in NFL history non-QB, and topped Garrett by 1 million dollars total. Garrett's contract is for 4 years, no way in hell we are giving Trey 4 years at $40 million. As I said, might be able to do a 2 year extension on what he already has for this year, front load the contract, allow the Bengals an out in the final year, while giving Trey 80% of his money in the next two years. 2 years / $72 million

maybe. the problem the Bengals have now is, if they don't have a good defense, these newsworthy signings of chase and higgins will be just that, old news. Another season where the Bengals are good for fantasy football, but not real football. They will miss the playoffs because they give up 40 or 50 points a game and score 30 to 40. It's like no one in the Bengals front office has any common sense at all, but, nothing new there.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

maybe. the problem the Bengals have now is, if they don't have a good defense, these newsworthy signings of chase and higgins will be just that, old news. Another season where the Bengals are good for fantasy football, but not real football. They will miss the playoffs because they give up 40 or 50 points a game and score 30 to 40. It's like no one in the Bengals front office has any common sense at all, but, nothing new there.

Hypothetically, let's say you can potentially improve 2-3 spots, but you lose Hendrickson's production at DE? Would you do it?

Granted, no rookie being drafted can be counted on to improve anything, but you have to rely on the draft to build your team, because no team can survive straight FA team upgrade, too expensive.

However, let's say that crazy Panthers trade is realistic:

Panthers Trade:
#8 Overall Pick
3rd Round Pick

Bengals Trade:
Trey Hendrickson
#17 Overall Pick

You now free up the $18 million owed to Hendrickson in salary cap.

You draft a replacement for Hendrickson at #8, you have money to sign Scherff ($10 million - 1 year) and Risner ($4.5 million/per year - 2 years), you draft Tate Ratledge in Round #2. Use round 3 on S and CB.

You didn't improve the hell out of the defense, but you now have a young guy to replace Hendrickson with promise, and you just protected Dalton for the next two years at minimum buy signing your guards, and drafting one to replace the older more expensive guard next year, and act as a backup with Ford. You can now jettison Volson.

Plus, you are adding some depth in the secondary in round 3 with two picks.

All I am trying to say is this, losing Hendrickson sucks, but it is not the end of the world if things are done right. Is the Bengals front office capable of this, not sure, but if done right, Hendrickson is not the win all / lose all proposition several are making it out to be.

You can even do this....So many high profile DE's in this years draft, you can also trade back down with pick #8 with a team trying to trade up for a plummeting Sanders at QB, or another prospect. Pick up extra picks from there and still maybe get a guy we already focused on with the #17 pick.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Hypothetically, let's say you can potentially improve 2-3 spots, but you lose Hendrickson's production at DE? Would you do it?

Granted, no rookie being drafted can be counted on to improve anything, but you have to rely on the draft to build your team, because no team can survive straight FA team upgrade, too expensive.

However, let's say that crazy Panthers trade is realistic:

Panthers Trade:
#8 Overall Pick
3rd Round Pick

Bengals Trade:
Trey Hendrickson
#17 Overall Pick

You now free up the $18 million owed to Hendrickson in salary cap.

You draft a replacement for Hendrickson at #8, you have money to sign Scherff ($10 million - 1 year) and Risner ($4.5 million/per year - 2 years), you draft Tate Ratledge in Round #2. Use round 3 on S and CB.

You didn't improve the hell out of the defense, but you now have a young guy to replace Hendrickson with promise, and you just protected Dalton for the next two years at minimum buy signing your guards, and drafting one to replace the older more expensive guard next year, and act as a backup with Ford. You can now jettison Volson.

Plus, you are adding some depth in the secondary in round 3 with two picks.

All I am trying to say is this, losing Hendrickson sucks, but it is not the end of the world if things are done right. Is the Bengals front office capable of this, not sure, but if done right, Hendrickson is not the win all / lose all proposition several are making it out to be.

You can even do this....So many high profile DE's in this years draft, you can also trade back down with pick #8 with a team trying to trade up for a plummeting Sanders at QB, or another prospect. Pick up extra picks from there and still maybe get a guy we already focused on with the #17 pick.

I'd have to think about it.
but protecting Dalton is Carolina's problem

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I'd have to think about it.
but protecting Dalton is Carolina's problem

LOL. I was thinking of Dalton on Carolina when typing that obviously. God I hope we never have to switch from Burrow to Dalton again. Andy was decent while he was here, but I would never want to go back now.

 

[DanBengalfan]

LOL. I was thinking of Dalton on Carolina when typing that obviously. God I hope we never have to switch from Burrow to Dalton again. Andy was decent while he was here, but I would never want to go back now.

Bengals move to Austin
Panthers move to Cincinnati

we just can't get rid of Andy Dalton.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Insight into the Hendrickson contract negotiations....seemed reasonable.

MSN

The thing about this, the Bengals hold the rights to Hendrickson, like Cincy78 said, he can't afford to sit out, because sitting out means no pay, a year off from the NFL, 31 years old, and the Bengals retain rights to the player still. If he does just play this season to get contract over with, Bengals now have an open franchise tag to use on him the next two years and don't have to guarantee anything other than that single year as they decide to apply it.

Sheehan is right, the Bengals don't give one iota of being the villain in this and have all the cards. They are looking at a royal flush and Hendrickson is holding a pair of deuces.

I would like to see Hendrickson happy and productive, but this is an alternative. Katie is kind of right, at some point it is up to him to say yes to the contract offer and get what he can right now if he wants that couple extra years of security. If I was Trey, I would fire his agent for putting him in this situation to begin with.

 

[DanBengalfan]

ball in his court for now.

sign the contract and get some money now, or risk being injured and having to retire. If he wants to let it cook, he will possibly be a strong candidate for the franchise tag next year. the bengals love that thing.

 

[cincygrad]

Insight into the Hendrickson contract negotiations....seemed reasonable.

MSN

The thing about this, the Bengals hold the rights to Hendrickson, like Cincy78 said, he can't afford to sit out, because sitting out means no pay, a year off from the NFL, 31 years old, and the Bengals retain rights to the player still. If he does just play this season to get contract over with, Bengals now have an open franchise tag to use on him the next two years and don't have to guarantee anything other than that single year as they decide to apply it.

Sheehan is right, the Bengals don't give one iota of being the villain in this and have all the cards. They are looking at a royal flush and Hendrickson is holding a pair of deuces.

I would like to see Hendrickson happy and productive, but this is an alternative. Katie is kind of right, at some point it is up to him to say yes to the contract offer and get what he can right now if he wants that couple extra years of security. If I was Trey, I would fire his agent for putting him in this situation to begin with.

Hendrickson has more cards than stated. Yes, the Bengals can fine him for not being present. He can also show up to camp and pull a muscle and not practice. He can push this as far as he wants, including holding out and then reporting with 6 games left and of course get injured whenever he feels a new tweak. That would eat up this year and move him to next. If they were to be stupid enough to continue the nonsense and tag him, they would then have to deal with him doing the exact same thing again. This time they can't fine him because he doesn't need to sign the tag until he reports. Would it cost him money? Yes. Would it cost him time? Yes. But, ultimately he can choose to make trouble if he feels like it.

As far as the Bengals go..... It's easy to blame Trey, but if the Bengals really did say that they would revisit the deal and offer a market based deal after the last extension, this sort of thing gets out to players and agents. Maybe that matters and maybe it doesn't but my hunch is that this would lead to more folks asking for guaranteed money up front and not trusting the Bengals to honor current deals or correct deals that have been surpassed.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Hendrickson has more cards than stated. Yes, the Bengals can fine him for not being present. He can also show up to camp and pull a muscle and not practice. He can push this as far as he wants, including holding out and then reporting with 6 games left and of course get injured whenever he feels a new tweak. That would eat up this year and move him to next. If they were to be stupid enough to continue the nonsense and tag him, they would then have to deal with him doing the exact same thing again. This time they can't fine him because he doesn't need to sign the tag until he reports. Would it cost him money? Yes. Would it cost him time? Yes. But, ultimately he can choose to make trouble if he feels like it.

As far as the Bengals go..... It's easy to blame Trey, but if the Bengals really did say that they would revisit the deal and offer a market based deal after the last extension, this sort of thing gets out to players and agents. Maybe that matters and maybe it doesn't but my hunch is that this would lead to more folks asking for guaranteed money up front and not trusting the Bengals to honor current deals or correct deals that have been surpassed.

I would really be interested in seeing what the Bengals are offering and how bad they are short changing him. We can assume all we want, but it may be a deal we as fans go...you know what...not probably what it should be, but reasonable, like say 28-32 million range. Once again though, the Bengals could let him cost himself a whole lot of money.

If he is looking to cash in while he has value, there is no better way to lose shit tons of money than take this final year, receive a pay check for only 6 weeks. Then Bengals turn around, franchise him, he waits to sign until last second, holds out until 6 final weeks causing him to lose 11 weeks of pay and penalties during training camp, and then in his 33 year old year, gets tagged for the second time, does the same thing, costs himself 11 weeks of pay and penalty. He basically will be getting a little over one years salary and costing him 3 years. Bengals may be losing out for 11 weeks, but they would benefit from him for the final 6 weeks of the season where all the marbles are. If he fakes injury, Bengals trainers can say, he is fine, have him suit up and play. If he refuses, they can penalize him for refusing to play. He cries foul, they will have to have an impartial 3rd party exam him. What kind of penalty would the NFL give him for that stunt?

That may be a headache for the Bengals, but it is not a deal breaker. Basically, the Bengals keep signing guys to huge contracts, and the only one they haven't is Trey, and all of a sudden, it is Hendrickson that seems unreasonable until the numbers are aired in public.

 

[cdumler7]

I would really be interested in seeing what the Bengals are offering and how bad they are short changing him. We can assume all we want, but it may be a deal we as fans go...you know what...not probably what it should be, but reasonable, like say 28-32 million range. Once again though, the Bengals could let him cost himself a whole lot of money.

If he is looking to cash in while he has value, there is no better way to lose shit tons of money than take this final year, receive a pay check for only 6 weeks. Then Bengals turn around, franchise him, he waits to sign until last second, holds out until 6 final weeks causing him to lose 11 weeks of pay and penalties during training camp, and then in his 33 year old year, gets tagged for the second time, does the same thing, costs himself 11 weeks of pay and penalty. He basically will be getting a little over one years salary and costing him 3 years. Bengals may be losing out for 11 weeks, but they would benefit from him for the final 6 weeks of the season where all the marbles are. If he fakes injury, Bengals trainers can say, he is fine, have him suit up and play. If he refuses, they can penalize him for refusing to play. He cries foul, they will have to have an impartial 3rd party exam him. What kind of penalty would the NFL give him for that stunt?

That may be a headache for the Bengals, but it is not a deal breaker. Basically, the Bengals keep signing guys to huge contracts, and the only one they haven't is Trey, and all of a sudden, it is Hendrickson that seems unreasonable until the numbers are aired in public.

I think the problem with this mindset is you are not seeing the bigger picture. Players/agents talk and if they see the Bengals treat one of the best defensive players in the league like this it really hurts their negotiating skills down the road. Agents are known to push players towards certain organizations because they hate dealing with GM's/Owners that try to penny pinch every little detail of a contract. Good players coming up for a deal instead of being willing to give a little discount to stay put might look at how the Bengals are treating Trey and say "Nope I want out".

On top of all that I don't think the Bengals hold as many cards as they think. It is not like Hendrickson has little money in the bank right now. He has made close to $70 million during his career. Yes I'm sure he would love to get this final deal done and not worry about it, but he seems like a man of principle and won't let the organization short change him even if it means sitting out for a bit to make sure they understand what they are missing.

 

[cincygrad]

I would really be interested in seeing what the Bengals are offering and how bad they are short changing him. We can assume all we want, but it may be a deal we as fans go...you know what...not probably what it should be, but reasonable, like say 28-32 million range. Once again though, the Bengals could let him cost himself a whole lot of money.

If he is looking to cash in while he has value, there is no better way to lose shit tons of money than take this final year, receive a pay check for only 6 weeks. Then Bengals turn around, franchise him, he waits to sign until last second, holds out until 6 final weeks causing him to lose 11 weeks of pay and penalties during training camp, and then in his 33 year old year, gets tagged for the second time, does the same thing, costs himself 11 weeks of pay and penalty. He basically will be getting a little over one years salary and costing him 3 years. Bengals may be losing out for 11 weeks, but they would benefit from him for the final 6 weeks of the season where all the marbles are. If he fakes injury, Bengals trainers can say, he is fine, have him suit up and play. If he refuses, they can penalize him for refusing to play. He cries foul, they will have to have an impartial 3rd party exam him. What kind of penalty would the NFL give him for that stunt?

That may be a headache for the Bengals, but it is not a deal breaker. Basically, the Bengals keep signing guys to huge contracts, and the only one they haven't is Trey, and all of a sudden, it is Hendrickson that seems unreasonable until the numbers are aired in public.

You are begging for drama with this sort of play. Zac has been a player's coach all along. If Trey shows up disgruntled and 'holds in,' do you really think Zac is going to challenge it? No, he'll have the same preseason Chase did. And sure, that turned out pretty darn good.... But we lost the first two games of the season and those two games were the worst games of Chase's year which I am sure is not a coincidence.

And if the Bengals are offering anywhere near 30 million per, they should leak it to the media to win the court of public opinion. I think most of our fans would not be on Trey's side on this one if the club were offering close to 30 million per for a 2 year extension on top of this season.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

You are begging for drama with this sort of play. Zac has been a player's coach all along. If Trey shows up disgruntled and 'holds in,' do you really think Zac is going to challenge it? No, he'll have the same preseason Chase did. And sure, that turned out pretty darn good.... But we lost the first two games of the season and those two games were the worst games of Chase's year which I am sure is not a coincidence.

And if the Bengals are offering anywhere near 30 million per, they should leak it to the media to win the court of public opinion. I think most of our fans would not be on Trey's side on this one if the club were offering close to 30 million per for a 2 year extension on top of this season.

Exactly. However, what neither side is leaking is contract details, only disagreements on each others perspective. I can't imagine that Tee Higgins gets 28 million as a number 2 WR on this team, and they are not offering their best defensive player who has been in the Defensive MVP running last two years less than $28 million. My guess is, Trey saw Garrett's contract extension, said you know what, I have had more sacks than him last two years combined and I think I should get on par with that annual salary, but maybe not as many years due to my age. I am sure his camp is feeling that the two year extension is their sacrifice, but they won't sacrifice the per annual.

Is this fact, of course not. I am only guessing here. Trey just saw Burrow, Chase, Higgins drop a brinks on their front door, and he is like, I am in the running for league Defensive MVP, I deserve one last payday at market rates.

The Bengals are never going to give Trey close to $40 million per year. The most I can even begin seeing them give him is $36, and I think that is top end. I am sure negotiation starts at $28, he wants $40, Bengals may have countered with $30 max. $10 million a year is a huge gap, and it will never get solved. Who is on the right side of this thing, no idea.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I think the problem with this mindset is you are not seeing the bigger picture. Players/agents talk and if they see the Bengals treat one of the best defensive players in the league like this it really hurts their negotiating skills down the road. Agents are known to push players towards certain organizations because they hate dealing with GM's/Owners that try to penny pinch every little detail of a contract. Good players coming up for a deal instead of being willing to give a little discount to stay put might look at how the Bengals are treating Trey and say "Nope I want out".

On top of all that I don't think the Bengals hold as many cards as they think. It is not like Hendrickson has little money in the bank right now. He has made close to $70 million during his career. Yes I'm sure he would love to get this final deal done and not worry about it, but he seems like a man of principle and won't let the organization short change him even if it means sitting out for a bit to make sure they understand what they are missing.

They are paying Burrow, they are paying Chase, they are paying Higgins. They have paid others in FA in the past good contracts. When we signed Reader, it was the richest NT contract in NFL history. They just start getting picky on what position they value. Then it also depends on how inflated players perceive their value. There is no doubt the Bengals are cheap, and they hold on to their bucks like Scrooge McDuck. However, they have paid for talent, but at the positions they see value in this league. This is a scoring league, and it is driven by the pass now a days. They have one of the best QB's in the NFL throwing the ball, and they have easily the best 1-2 punch at WR. They are catering to the league and how it is played. They need to get their crap together on defense, and going after opposing QB's like Hendrickson is a major value in this league, if they are consistent, and Hendrickson is. They need to see his value. But if he is asking for $40 a year like Garrett, it will never come from Cincinnati. We can let him play out this year and franchise him two more times for less than $40 million in any of those single years.

Hendrickson holds little to no cards at 31 years old. Yes, he can cause a stink, but in this league he is a single disgruntled player on a single team. Will that look bad on the front office, sure. But it isn't going to keep guys from signing quality contracts on a team led by Burrow and Chase.

 

[cdumler7]

They are paying Burrow, they are paying Chase, they are paying Higgins. They have paid others in FA in the past good contracts. When we signed Reader, it was the richest NT contract in NFL history. They just start getting picky on what position they value. Then it also depends on how inflated players perceive their value. There is no doubt the Bengals are cheap, and they hold on to their bucks like Scrooge McDuck. However, they have paid for talent, but at the positions they see value in this league. This is a scoring league, and it is driven by the pass now a days. They have one of the best QB's in the NFL throwing the ball, and they have easily the best 1-2 punch at WR. They are catering to the league and how it is played. They need to get their crap together on defense, and going after opposing QB's like Hendrickson is a major value in this league, if they are consistent, and Hendrickson is. They need to see his value. But if he is asking for $40 a year like Garrett, it will never come from Cincinnati. We can let him play out this year and franchise him two more times for less than $40 million in any of those single years.

Hendrickson holds little to no cards at 31 years old. Yes, he can cause a stink, but in this league he is a single disgruntled player on a single team. Will that look bad on the front office, sure. But it isn't going to keep guys from signing quality contracts on a team led by Burrow and Chase.

He himself has said he isn't asking for top of the position money. I think he has every right though to expect say $35 million per year at the position. And the age thing I'm not sure that is a great argument. Garrett is 30 years old and Hunter is 31 both getting huge deals for the edge position. So NFL teams are willing to hand it out knowing edge rusher is one of those positions that actually holds their value sometimes even clear to age 35 now adays.

And yes the Bengals paid those guys but it took them an extra year with Chase and about 2 extra years with Higgins. The waiting until the last possible moment thing doesn't sit well with a lot of agents and players. It is why the Bengals didn't get any kind of discount from them to stay in Cincy. So let's say they do decide to hold out another year on Hendrickson and make him play on the last year of his deal...I don't see how that sits well in the locker room at all for your defensive leader and only bright spot on that side of the ball. I think such a move would be destructive to the locker room and become a huge distraction as other players then will start getting asked about why Hendrickson hasn't gotten paid.

 

[cincygrad]

He himself has said he isn't asking for top of the position money. I think he has every right though to expect say $35 million per year at the position. And the age thing I'm not sure that is a great argument. Garrett is 30 years old and Hunter is 31 both getting huge deals for the edge position. So NFL teams are willing to hand it out knowing edge rusher is one of those positions that actually holds their value sometimes even clear to age 35 now adays.

And yes the Bengals paid those guys but it took them an extra year with Chase and about 2 extra years with Higgins. The waiting until the last possible moment thing doesn't sit well with a lot of agents and players. It is why the Bengals didn't get any kind of discount from them to stay in Cincy. So let's say they do decide to hold out another year on Hendrickson and make him play on the last year of his deal...I don't see how that sits well in the locker room at all for your defensive leader and only bright spot on that side of the ball. I think such a move would be destructive to the locker room and become a huge distraction as other players then will start getting asked about why Hendrickson hasn't gotten paid.

I agree with this. The Bengals age argument isn't a good one given that other teams have been willing to re-sign their guys to market deals.

Though they paid Tee, I'm not sure they ever get there if there isn't a threat that Chase would stall negotiations until Tee had a deal.

 

[DanBengalfan]

You will see a steady uptick in age from 24-29 years old. The key point for Dynasty managers to want to know is after a defensive lineman's seventh year in the NFL, usually the 30 year season is where yo start to notice where and tear with hints of a decline coming soon.