Heat vs Pacers ECF

[shitsho]

i know WHAT you said. i'm saying imo your definition isn't broad enough. just saying FEAR isn't always a factor in a choke, that's all...

Fear is really the only factor in a choke. You can call it by any name you wish. The base factor is fear.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

It's just the way of the land. I've seen it too many times, Kobe has a super human effort but doesn't close it out and people remember the lasting image. It's like Paul George, he made all of the tremendous plays in game 1 but all anybody(including myself) remembered was how he blew that defensive assignment at the end.

I remember Lebron making a lay up in the closing seconds. Do you remember MJs shot, or his shove? I remember his shot.

 

[bksballer89]

Cole should not be getting 40 minutes....He's been pretty awful this series and Bird gets tired too much to play 40 minutes. I do agree that all of the big 3 should be playing 40 minutes.

 

[Black Adam]

Fear is really the only factor in a choke. You can call it by any name you wish. The base factor is fear.

k, well then we agree to disagree on that one. moving on...

 

[Kold]

I remember Lebron making a lay up in the closing seconds. Do you remember MJs shot, or his shove? I remember his shot.

Um yeah, that's the point I was making, or atleast tried to make

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Cole should not be getting 40 minutes....He's been pretty awful this series and Bird gets tired too much to play 40 minutes. I do agree that all of the big 3 should be playing 40 minutes.

Cole at the 1 is a formality, I wouldn't ask him to do anything but play D and spot up 3. Birdman does get tired because he goes so hard. I would then ask Anthony to come in and play tackle a Hibbert.

IMO the Heat gave too much freedom to their 3 point shooters. Too many times they are passing up 3 point looks to drive, we have LBJ, Wade, and Bosh to beat them up inside, stand by the bench and hit your fucking shot.

 

[shitsho]

I remember Lebron making a lay up in the closing seconds. Do you remember MJs shot, or his shove? I remember his shot.

Thats why MJ is the GOAT. He has responded successfully in more of those moments than anyone I can remember.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Um yeah, that's the point I was making, or atleast tried to make

and you were dead on with that lasting shot, nobody remembers the fails because they want to remember the perfection we wish to be true.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Thats why MJ is the GOAT. He has responded successfully in more of those moments than anyone I can remember.

recipe



but I remember what you said about MJ being the best in your life time etc, that has a lot of weight.

 

[bksballer89]

Cole at the 1 is a formality, I wouldn't ask him to do anything but play D and spot up 3. Birdman does get tired because he goes so hard. I would then ask Anthony to come in and play tackle a Hibbert.

IMO the Heat gave too much freedom to their 3 point shooters. Too many times they are passing up 3 point looks to drive, we have LBJ, Wade, and Bosh to beat them up inside, stand by the bench and hit your fucking shot.

Cole is not a good 3 point shooter. He is far from a 3 point specialist.

Anthony is too small for Hibbert. If you're going to put Joel on Hibbert, you should just put LBJ on Hibbert as LBJ is bigger in size and weight.

I don't mind when our 3 point shooters drive actually. If your shot is not falling you should drive instead of keep on settling for 3 all the time....It was nice to see Ray drive tonight and score a few buckets

 

[BOTSLAYER]

welp, with the help of a lot of booze I am going to go cry myself to sleep with the knowledge the heat are a bunch of underachieving douche bags that I hate.

I will love them again when they beat the Pacers.

 

[shitsho]

and you were dead on with that lasting shot, nobody remembers the fails because they want to remember the perfection we wish to be true.

Our brains are wired to remember success and avoid failure. We would be depressed all the time because most people fail way more than they succeed.

 

[bksballer89]

I'm pretty down but I will feel great about the Heat chances of winning in Indy tmr.

Like always after a Heat home L in the playoffs, I will avoid watching espn tomorrow and sunday. The only thing I'll watch on any of the espn networks will be the Memphis/San Antonio game

 

[trojanfan12]

So what you're saying is anytime in a close game your top player either misses a shot or turn the ball over it is a choke?

If this is the case Every great player in the NBA has choked many many times.

That's right, they have!! It's the fact that they are unafraid to have the ball in their hands when the game is on the line that seperates them from the average player!!

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Cole is not a good 3 point shooter. He is far from a 3 point specialist.

sadly, he is their best this season

Anthony is too small for Hibbert. If you're going to put Joel on Hibbert, you should just put LBJ on Hibbert as LBJ is bigger in size and weight.

great point, but LBJ should not be playing 48

I don't mind when our 3 point shooters drive actually. If your shot is not falling you should drive instead of keep on settling for 3 all the time....It was nice to see Ray drive tonight and score a few buckets

It is not that I mind when they drive, I mind when they miss the shot they have a roster spot for. The driving takes away from them focusing on the 3 which is why we really need them. And I recycle, we need LBJ Wade and Bosh to beat the paint up to get the other team in foul trouble and have the D collapse on the paint at which time we kick out to capable 3 point shooters. Our entire O relies on that series of events happening. If a link in the chain breaks, our offence is shit.

Maybe we should move LBJ to the 5 and bosh to the 4.

 

[bksballer89]

That's right, they have!! It's the fact that they are unafraid to have the ball in their hands when the game is on the line that seperates them from the average player!!

Well as long as you guys are willing to admit that anytime a great player misses a shot or turn the ball over in the final minute of a close game that it is considered a choke I won't argue with you guys....However it does seem on here that it is only a choke when LBJ does it. Nobody said KD choked in the Memphis series after failing his team consistently in the final minutes of that series.

 

[trojanfan12]

Well as long as you guys are willing to admit that anytime a great player misses a shot or turn the ball over in the final minute of a close game that it is considered a choke I won't argue with you guys....However it does seem on here that it is only a choke when LBJ does it. Nobody said KD choked in the Memphis series after failing his team consistently in the final minutes of that series.

Actually, several have said that he choked. I think KD was given a little leeway this time because of Westbrook being out and KD was basically out of gas because he was having to do literally everything for OKC!!

Also, as great a player as KD is, he is not quite at the Lebron, Kobe, etc. level, so he doesn't get the criticism that they do.

Lebron has his team intact, is the reigning MVP and the Heat are the reigning champs!!

Kobe gets the same treatment from others when he chokes in those moments as well, for the same reasons.

 

[shitsho]

Actually, several have said that he choked. I think KD was given a little leeway this time because of Westbrook being out and KD was basically out of gas because he was having to do literally everything for OKC!!

Also, as great a player as KD is, he is not quite at the Lebron, Kobe, etc. level, so he doesn't get the criticism that they do.

Lebron has his team intact, is the reigning MVP and the Heat are the reigning champs!!

Kobe gets the same treatment from others when he chokes in those moments as well, for the same reasons.

I may dislike Kobe as a player but one thing that dude does not do is choke. If anything he is over confident.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Well as long as you guys are willing to admit that anytime a great player misses a shot or turn the ball over in the final minute of a close game that it is considered a choke I won't argue with you guys....However it does seem on here that it is only a choke when LBJ does it. Nobody said KD choked in the Memphis series after failing his team consistently in the final minutes of that series.

I feel this is how the media portrays it, Kobe always got a pass because he never passes. His team destructing chucking was always overlooked. A lot like the public looks at Melo. They love a guy who can score because there isn't enough stats for D.

Opponent FG% would be the stat most responsible for bar fly education.

 

[trojanfan12]

I may dislike Kobe as a player but one thing that dude does not do is choke. If anything he is over confident.

Based on the criteria that was stated in the thread, Kobe has choked in his fair share of clutch moments, just as MJ and every other great player has. I have no problem admitting that because it happens to all of them.

However, even though they are sometimes going to fail in those moments, they are still the ones that fans want to see with the ball in their hands in those moments (and that non-fans don't want to see with the ball).

It's why, even though I don't like Lebron, I don't call him a choker and don't really make a big deal when he comes up short in those moments. It happens to all of them.