Hanrahan To Boston

[pixburgher66]

Not "official" but it is reportedly done. 4 to Pit and 2 to Bos. The only names known are Hammer to Beantown and Jerry Sands and Stolmy to the Burgh.

 

[Burns80y]

I wasn't expecting much but so far we have a AAAA player in sands and guy that's been roughed up the last 2 years in double a. At 22 there's still hope for him but it seems like a bad deal 4 the bucks.

I guess it all depends who the other three in the trade are.

 

[Illinest]

Jerry Sands is not insignificant. He could be Jason Bay for a few years for all we know.

This is what we get for trading Hanrahan now. I believe I was pretty insistent last season that he needed to be gone at the deadline. The whole "15 games over .500" thing shut my mouth for a while but now we're reaping the bad luck.

Of course the other 3 players could turn this from a head-scratcher into a blowout. We could be trading Taillon for all we know.

 

[pixburgher66]

Jerry Sands is not insignificant. He could be Jason Bay for a few years for all we know.

This is what we get for trading Hanrahan now. I believe I was pretty insistent last season that he needed to be gone at the deadline. The whole "15 games over .500" thing shut my mouth for a while but now we're reaping the bad luck.

Of course the other 3 players could turn this from a head-scratcher into a blowout. We could be trading Taillon for all we know.

I know you're being dramatic, but I see the extra Pirate being one of Presley/Tabata. We just have too large of a logjam at the corner OF spots.

 

[magnumo]

I know you're being dramatic, but I see the extra Pirate being one of Presley/Tabata. We just have too large of a logjam at the corner OF spots.

Hope you're wrong about Tabata. If they trade him now, that would be a prototypical "sell-low" transaction..... and if Tabata rebounds at all, he could be the leadoff hitter the team desperately needs, and he's signed to a team-friently long-term deal. I have mixed feelings about Presley.

At any rate, I do not understand at all why the Pirates want Sands.

I will await with dread the announcement of the entire deal..... but I fear that Illinest's prediction that they will "trade Hanrahan for crap" may be on target.

 

[pixburgher66]

Hope you're wrong about Tabata. If they trade him now, that would be a prototypical "sell-low" transaction..... and if Tabata rebounds at all, he could be the leadoff hitter the team desperately needs, and he's signed to a team-friently long-term deal. I have mixed feelings about Presley.

At any rate, I do not understand at all why the Pirates want Sands.

I will await with dread the announcement of the entire deal..... but I fear that Illinest's prediction that they will "trade Hanrahan for crap" may be on target.

At this point, it's the move to make. If they wait and Hammer further falls into the abyss we're in major trouble and will get NO return. It stinks in retrospect, but for NOW it's the move that had to be made. I tend to think NH wouldn't make a move without something he really wanted. There is a big financial side to this move as well, especially after the Grilli deal. All in all, I can't really say one way or another how I feel about this because we only know half of it. I tend to think that a Jones deal is next. Sands seems to be in the Jones mold. Power, decent arm to be a RF or 1B, some average questions, etc.

 

[thecrow124]

Ok somewhat the heck is taking so long? Not for the trade to go through, but to Jake the other players involved. The only thing that makes sense is that the others have an injury history and the teams want them medically cleared before they announce their names. Still this is rediculess.

 

[thedddd]

There is a report that Mark Melancon is coming to Pittsburgh. Just more garbage who was horrible everywhere except in Houston (1 season).

 

[thecrow124]

There is also report that no major leaguers are coming back. One of the 2 is wrong.

 

[thedddd]

Yep the one I read is out of Boston so I believe that one is wishful thinking on their part. I would hope NH wouldn't want Melancon back in any deal.

 

[steelparrot]

I'll wait till its done.

Illinest is right though, us getting our wins early the last 2 seasons changed what we were going to get for Joel.

Players arent traded anymore, contracts are traded.

1 yr 7 mill contract is what we are trading here.. Joel doesnt have much surplus value over his contract, maybe like 3 mill or so.

 

[thedddd]

Well yeah it looks like they are still working it out.

And that is true about Hanrahan's value when and what is very huge that has never been an issue and the timing screams salary 100%.

There is too much diminished return on him to ever expect more out of a deal for him outside last trade deadline, and too much risk holding him this year.

NH was in a bad spot last trade deadline because if he would have traded him then folks would have said they aren't trying to win now. Then this offseason we are all going to complain about what they will get, really not a good situation.

I guess you can compare this to the Bailey deal last offseason. Unless Sands turns into Josh Reddick (who would have thought?) this deal is all contract.

About the only trade I remember off the top of my head this offseason that hasn't been contract is the M's/Angels swap of Moralas and Vargas.

 

[element1286]

IMO, Melancon would be a positive. He had a 6+ ERA, but it was completely fueled by homeruns. Which would be extremely likely to change moving from Fenway to PNC.

 

[element1286]

Can't really judge till we hear all the names. But I find Jerry Sands to be interesting.

 

[Etrius24]

well I saw Stolmy pitch in Greenville back in 09... He has a good arm... Low to mid 90's fastball.. He was awful skinny when I saw him pitch and I thought then he needed to grow some more... He was what 19 or 20 back then.. He was tall and lanky.. At the time I thought maybe he would add a tick to the fastball...

I just read John Sickels scouting report on him and he said he was throwing 97 in winterball...!!!!

The other thing that stood out in my mind watching this kid pitch was that he was using a cutter changing speed and he had a decent curveball.... How many 19 year olds that can throw 94 work on their cutter and change up instead of trying to blow everyone away... I guess I am saying I like the way the kid thinks on the mound..

Sure he hit the wall a year ago and was terrible.. but that is why they call them growing pains... His arm is legit.. He throws 4 pitches.. He is still maturing..

If picking up a couple ticks on the fastball is for real and it is sustainable I think the Pirates might have themselves a jem.

Sands is a power bat that does not hit for a ton of average and strikes out too much... But hey his power is real maybe he could platoon and give them some pop in the lineup... he has been at AAA for a while now so he is ready to give it a go in the major leagues.... I fear he might be a AAAA player... But he has enough pure power that even if he is a AAAA type of player he can be useful in a limited role.

Third player coming to the bucs is reported to be Jose Iglesias.. Who according to sickels is a superb defensive shortstop with no power... Because he was really young for playing in AAA... Maybe he will develop into someone that hits for average...

Well at worst he can be the utility infielder ... but if there is any average in his bat... I could live with him playing shortstop if his glove is truly "Superb"

Point is they were not going to keep Hammer much longer... Sure they might get more in terms of namebrand major league players at the trade deadline... but I think bare minimum They get a utility infielder, a platoon bat for first base.. and a pitcher who has Tony Armas JR makeup... Before Armas had his arm fall off.....

We need to wait for the official release to hear all the names.. but I think so far NH got more than I was expecting..

 

[Illinest]

I think Jerry Sands is pretty interesting. He really hasn't had a chance in the bigs yet. I mean last year he had - what - 30 at bats? I can certainly see a case for him in the mix for 1B. He must have some power to be hitting all of those homeruns. The AAA stats are PCL but he also hit lots of homers in AA and A ball.

We don't really have a cleanup hitter or a first-baseman. I mean there is Jones but I like him better when he's playing a platoon role and I think we need his production in the corner outfield as much as we need it at first base. Granted that he's not a great fielder but I'm not too worried about that.

Unfortunately I think that the Red Sox probably had a jonesin' for Jones out of anyone on our roster. They wanted some lefty power. I would be a little surprised if he's not the other player going to Boston.

The good news is that Sands doesn't appear to have too much of a split. Maybe Sands can play 1st and bat cleanup? That would be load off of my mind.

Melancon - if he's one of our three - seems like an astute choice actually. He reminds me of the Hanrahan that we acquired however many years ago from the Nats. His peripherals are actually really good and most of the damage to his stats was HR-related. That's a Fenway effect imho. I hope he is coming to us.

Stolmy seems like a classic Neil kind of guy and I have low hopes.



I would say that this has the potential to work out okay. I'll assume Jones is gone and I'll assume that the fourth player is not significant to our big league roster.

I'm going to call Starling Marte our CF (politics of seniority aside) and expect good things from him. He was a 2 WAR player last year and I think that his contributions will be more valuable than his OPS necessarily shows. He looks like a good fielder and the metrics seem to agree, plus he has speed enough to be a threat on the bases. He will have to maintain a batting average north of .250 at a minimum but I think he's athletic enough to do that. He'll be a poor OBP leadoff guy but I'll chalk that up to growing pains and hope that he eventually becomes a .300 hitter.

I'm going to hit Neil Walker second. He's a good OBP guy with some pop, a switch hitter and a fair glove-man at the keystone. I think he'll repeat last year's performance. I just hope he doesn't develop injury problems.

McC in LF batting third. He'll be an all-star in every sense. I do expect that he'll regress somewhat - but he should still be our best player.

Pedro Alvarez - hitting cleanup and playing 3B. I think Pedro is starting to get it. I expect that he'll always be slightly adventurous in the field but I think that he'll also be a respectable power hitter.

Russell Martin - Not to say that I think he is a five type of hitter but his homerun totals and veteranosity is certain to appeal to Hurdle. I think he'll be an upgrade defensively and could very easily have a rebound year at the plate as well. I can't imagine that he'll keep trending downward. I don't think he's old enough for that yet. Not even as a catcher.

Jerry Sands - batting sixth and playing 1B. If Jerry Sands is capable of playing here and performing well then we are looking at a fairly solid lineup.

RF - I don't even know. We have Tabata, Presley and Snider. I think that all three have some potential. Presley - I've noticed - seems to be able to attribute some of his problems to bad luck. I can't remember the source of that, unfortunately. This is a disaster waiting to happen and with no clear answer. I would be absolutely comfortable with a Jones/RH platoon partner sort of situation if for some reason Jones isn't already traded.

Then Barmes.

McKenry is a decent backup C, Gaby Sanchez is a backup 1B. I don't know who backs up 3B, 2B and SS. Jordy Mercer perhaps?
Other bench spots.


Now here's the part that I actually like - I think that Hanrahan for Melancon is a good swap. Hanrahan's walk rates were pretty bad last year and his FIP was much higher than his ERA. I know there's something to be said for 'save situations' and whatnot but I think that Hanrahan could've easily had an ERA in the 5s last year.
I don't expect Grilli to do nearly as well this year as he did last year but I think that Bryan Morris and Melancon can come in here and give our bullpen a boost. We may also have Justin Wilson and possibly Locke or McPherson could be converted into a long relief role such as Dan McCutcheon and Karstens and Correia have been used in. The bullpen is not necessarily in trouble. There is some risk involved but I think it's the kind of risk that every GM has to navigate almost every year. Basically I think that all of these mediocre starters that I've been talking down are excellent candidates for bullpen help if that's what we need.

Which leads us to the rotation. I've discussed that elsewhere. Liriano is such a wildcard. I think that Burnett and Wandy are capable of handling their roles again, Morton and Cole are possibilities late. McDonald's contributions - if they're positive - will be a bonus.
It's basically all on Liriano in my opinion. He pitches well - we win some games. He craps his pants, we crap our pants.


But as always - a lot can change between now and opening day.

 

[element1286]

I can't imagine if Jones was in this deal his name would've been kept quiet for so long. At first I thought Jones was going to be in the deal, but now I think they'll exchange prospects for the last two, or maybe Gaby Sanchez will go to Boston, and the Pirates will get another C+ guy.

 

[element1286]

I've been thinking of Sands as an outfielder and Jones as a firstbasmen. From what I read, Sands is like a good athlete, and isn't clumsy like Jones.

 

[Etrius24]

Element

I agree that sands is a better athlete.. but Jones is a much better hitter as an outfielder... So offensively it makes more sense to leave him in the outfield if the bucs can find a way to get some sort of decent production at first base... Gabby Sanchez is nothing more than a platoon player at this point... Which is why I mentioned Hafner...

I guess we would have to know how much better defensively sands would be over jones defensively in the outfield and then look at that improvement in defense and compare it to the value of the extra production from Jones' bat as an outfielder... and make sure the defense was not so bad it negated the extra 60+ points of OPS in offense...

Which is a good exercise I would like to take on if I had any defensive numbers to go on for Sands as an outfielder in the big leagues.

 

[thecrow124]

From what I have read, Sands has a very long swing that he uses to generate his power. That works in the minors but not at the major league level. He was however the top rated first baseman in the PCL the year before last defensively.

Sands will probably go the way of Jeff Clement, with better defense at whatever position he plays.

Lets be real guys we are getting hopes and dreams as a return for Hammer which is precisely why we should have kept him, the check with his salary. When you trade 1 guy for a group of guys, the team that gets the one guy usually wins the trade.