Great Article From Baker

[cezero]

Baker doesn't just cover the team anymore. His job is broader now.

Well researched, lots of sources, and complete openness with Jack Z and Lincoln, including letting them see the comments made by Wedge et al, and asking them to comment, which they did with blanket statements.

If anything, this article shows the professionalism and restraint most people working under the dysfunctional front office have shown. It took this much for this long for them to finally speak up.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I dont want to pretend to be an expert in journalism or anything like that. However from what I have heard it was impressive that he was able to get that many people to speak on record about the situation. Pretty impressive which makes believable this for the most part, even though Baker has always been a huge cynic of the organization.

 

[johnfree63]

I was hoping to be shocked by the article but instead it was basically everything I thought it would be. A how to article on running a once great franchise into the ground.

I guess I did learn one thing and that was that Howard Lincoln gets mad a runs out of meetings every time he doesn't get his way.

 

[NWinAZ]

After posting this I expected some reaction, but it looks like this is the talk of the town and as Cezero said above, it is the talk of baseball. All major national baseball writers are buzzing about it. Maybe this article puts enough pressure on absent ownership to step up and flush the whole upper management team.

I always new the top 2 were idiots, but always thought there only job was to make money and not care about the baseball side. Now reading this, they were actually trying this whole time to make a winning team. That just blows my mind. I also read many times on how Jack ruined life long relationships with guys after taking this job and leaving them out to try for his mistakes. It was nice to finally hear from those people though.

May the baseball God's save us.

 

[seahawksfan234]

After posting this I expected some reaction, but it looks like this is the talk of the town and as Cezero said above, it is the talk of baseball. All major national baseball writers are buzzing about it. Maybe this article puts enough pressure on absent ownership to step up and flush the whole upper management team.

I always new the top 2 were idiots, but always thought there only job was to make money and not care about the baseball side. Now reading this, they were actually trying this whole time to make a winning team. That just blows my mind. I also read many times on how Jack ruined life long relationships with guys after taking this job and leaving them out to try for his mistakes. It was nice to finally hear from those people though.

May the baseball God's save us.

100% agree with this.

As I mentioned the few times I've met Z I thought he was a really nice guy. My perception was that Z was the smart one in the front office who was actually making an effort and Chuck and Howie were holding him back. As that article said Z now puts more of his value on players W/L record, ERA, HR, BA and RBI. There is a lot more to evaluating a player than that and it almost seems like he has the statistical knowledge of your average fan.

I always thought that Chuck and Howie were the problem. It looks like the entire front office is the problem. As it mentioned the only people remaining are Z's "Yes men" which I think is a huge problem. I say you clean the entire thing out. Everyone, I don't think there should be a single person remaining. Incompetent is an extreme understatement in regards to the running of this franchise.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I originally blasted Wedge for leaving. I got the impression he was ditching the Mariners before we had a chance to fire him, or that he believed he deserved a long term contract and did not get one. After reading the article I respect Wedge for leaving, he did the right thing. He was trying all along to win while these idiots are trying to tell him what to do.

I mean for Christ sake they wanted Felix to throw live batting practice?

 

[mcnabb7542]

After posting this I expected some reaction, but it looks like this is the talk of the town and as Cezero said above, it is the talk of baseball. All major national baseball writers are buzzing about it. Maybe this article puts enough pressure on absent ownership to step up and flush the whole upper management team.

They might start to question Howie, but they wont do a damn thing. It's time to face facts this ownership doesn't give a damn about wins and loses, there thing is profit...

 

[seahawksfan234]

They might start to question Howie, but they wont do a damn thing. It's time to face facts this ownership doesn't give a damn about wins and loses, there thing is profit...

Sadly I think you're right, I don't think they will do a damn thing.

Luckily for us Howard Lincoln is now 73 years old and could retire any year now. At least I hold out hope.

A good piece from LookoutLanding, accurately encapsulates how I feel about the article.

Zduriencik, Armstrong, Lincoln destroyed in Geoff Baker piece on front office dysfunction - Lookout Landing

 

[seahawksfan234]

I am surprised this is not on ESPN's MLB homepage. The Mariners don't get much love from ESPN but this is a great piece of journalism, a great read and I think pretty big news.

 

[unlvmariners]

Does anyone think this article or knowledge about the front office would influence a player on wanting to play in Seattle or not?

 

[YourFriendGannon]

Does anyone think this article or knowledge about the front office would influence a player on wanting to play in Seattle or not?

Probably not. Though if I were someone thinking of playing there this could make me have a private chat with someone I knew who actually plays/recently played for Seattle. The front office situation, even assuming it is pretty bad now, could be altered considerably within a few years. It's not like the situation with Al Davis who could only be stopped from meddling by kicking the bucket.

 

[cezero]

Evidently, MLB Network contacted Blengino, and he said what Baker's article covered was just "the tip of the iceberg."

Tony Blengino says recent report on Seattle front office is ?just the tip of the iceberg? | HardballTalk

 

[wazzu31]

After posting this I expected some reaction, but it looks like this is the talk of the town and as Cezero said above, it is the talk of baseball. All major national baseball writers are buzzing about it. Maybe this article puts enough pressure on absent ownership to step up and flush the whole upper management team.

I always new the top 2 were idiots, but always thought there only job was to make money and not care about the baseball side. Now reading this, they were actually trying this whole time to make a winning team. That just blows my mind. I also read many times on how Jack ruined life long relationships with guys after taking this job and leaving them out to try for his mistakes. It was nice to finally hear from those people though.

May the baseball God's save us.

Totally agree with everything you said just not a real shocker but he has been factually in accurate with plenty of stories. The gist of the article shouldnt come as a surprise as Z have done the exact opposite of how "sabermetrics" are and the opposite of a real rebuild.

Chuck Armstrong did make the statement after they failed to make the playoffs in 02 that the season a success with his joke they found the recipe for success with his 90/90/3 comment. I always thought they were bright guys who bought into the Connie Mack philosophy but 2 non baseball guys should not be blowing up on staffers over baseball decisions that don't have to do with business

 

[seahawksfan234]

Evidently, MLB Network contacted Blengino, and he said what Baker's article covered was just "the tip of the iceberg."

Tony Blengino says recent report on Seattle front office is ?just the tip of the iceberg? | HardballTalk

Would make an interesting book. I know I was hooked into that article the second I started reading it. The book Scoreboard Baby about the UW football program during the early 2000s under slick Rick was based on a lot of the investigative reporting done by the Seattle Times and other local newspapers.

I would be really intrigued to hear more stories about what is going on within the Mariners FO.

 

[YourFriendGannon]

Many pro sports front offices are dysfunctional to at least a certain extent. Sometimes it's just kept under wraps more. The truth maybe isn't as riveting as Baker's article. And there are some stories that would make for thrilling book adaptations that never get out there.

 

[dude82]

Does anyone think this article or knowledge about the front office would influence a player on wanting to play in Seattle or not?

I asked the same question in another thread. It very well could. Another thing I was thinking about... McClendon is in an interesting spot right now. Do you think he's is re-thinking his decision to accept this job when it was offered now that he knows how much the front office guys like to meddle in the on-field side of things? Or do you think he'll just humor them when they try to meddle and do what he wants to do anyway? It's gotta be one of those "You hired me to do a job, so let me do it" kinds of things for McClendon, doesn't it? He may take the attitude of "Well Zduriencik is on a short-term deal and there's no guarantee I'll be retained if he's fired, so I'm just gonna manage the way I want to manage and if my bosses want to fire me because I'm not doing it how they want me to, then at least I'm gonna go out doing it my way".

 

[johnfree63]

I asked the same question in another thread. It very well could. Another thing I was thinking about... McClendon is in an interesting spot right now. Do you think he's is re-thinking his decision to accept this job when it was offered now that he knows how much the front office guys like to meddle in the on-field side of things? Or do you think he'll just humor them when they try to meddle and do what he wants to do anyway? It's gotta be one of those "You hired me to do a job, so let me do it" kinds of things for McClendon, doesn't it? He may take the attitude of "Well Zduriencik is on a short-term deal and there's no guarantee I'll be retained if he's fired, so I'm just gonna manage the way I want to manage and if my bosses want to fire me because I'm not doing it how they want me to, then at least I'm gonna go out doing it my way".

Teams normally go with a manager that was opposite of the manager they just fired. Just based off of that and no other knowledge, I'm going to say McClendon is probably a yes man.

 

[johnfree63]

Mariners Statement from GM Jack Zduriencik:
Over the years, we have chosen to take the high road in talking about former Mariners personnel. It hasn’t always been easy but we always felt it was important to do so, not just for the club but also for the individual. And in every case, it proved to be the right way to handle things. However, we believe the comments made by former members of our organization that appeared in the Sunday Seattle Times require a brief response.
Eric Wedge, our former manager, criticized our organization, accusing Howard Lincoln, chuck Armstrong and me of meddling.
Everyone in our organization, including Howard and Chuck, is focused on putting a championship team on the field. We all care very deeply about this team, just like the fans do. We all see when the team is playing well, and when it isn’t.
I’ve worked for several Major League organizations. Our upper management has suggestions and asks questions, just like CEOs and presidents in other organization do, all to be helpful and contribute to the goal of winning. We all want to win as soon as possible.
When there are areas that need improvement, it’s my job to ask questions, suggest ideas and give direction to the field staff. When our upper management has questions or suggestions, it’s my job to respond to them. I don’t believe meddling is a fair portrayal.
One good example is the issue of the Mariners doing extra work last September. That suggestion was mine. Everyone in the baseball department thought this would be a good teaching time to help us improve our fundamentals with a young team, and help set the tone for spring training.
Howard, Chuck, Eric and I met every five to six weeks the past couple of seasons to make sure we were all on the same page. Never once did Eric complain about our communications during those meetings. In fact, we all agreed that this was a good time to offer and share ideas.
Eric approached me numerous times throughout the year expressing his desire for a long-term contract. Even the day before he quit, Eric called a meeting with me and demanded a contract extension.
I can also say that our current statistical analysis group is doing excellent work. Our dedicated staff and the tools they are using are a key component in our decision making process, and are light years ahead of where we have been. I am engaged with their work on a daily basis and very excited in the improvements made.
We have never deviated from our rebuilding plan. We have stayed the course, and we now have a talented group of young players. We are hard at work looking into every option to add to this core group, as we said we would, and we are looking forward to 2014 and beyond.

Here's Jack Z's statement.

 

[Cloud]

Anyone remember why Lou Piniella and Pat Gillick left? Remember the harsh words they had for this front office after their departure?

It's hard for me to say I'm shocked by this. This has been a freaking mess for the pass decade plus. May this be the beginning of the end for this current front office.

We need someone that cares.

 

[octagondd]

I will admit I was a big Z supporter, but I knew nothing of all the people below him. I did know he brought one of his main guys from Milwaukee. I assume thats Blengino. Looks like he is the Paul Depodesta of the situation except that in this case the Billy Beane character (Z) did not buy in to the advanced stats.

It all makes sense now though. The organization did get some undervalued guys early on and then it went down hill after Z started removing the guys that got him the job in the first place. I was always of the mindset that Howie and Chuck were convinced by Z's plan and he was basically running the show, but it appears they all are idiots and Z was just being a yes man to them and getting rid of long time friends and co-workers in the process. Now, all the good guys in scouting and coaching are gone. This franchise is doomed. It feels like the movie Major League.

I know Baker has been critical of M's management, but maybe he has been for good reason. Maybe he heard stuff he could not report or repeat until now, when he found a bunch of others who experienced the same thing.

I thought the Cano thing was the beginning of an increase in payroll and getting some parts that are desperately needed, but now I can only think they are going to screw it all up.

I wonder if Blengino had anything to do with Figgins or Fister, or any of the other horrible decisions. it would be interesting to find out more specific info.