Not a chance of them moving to Las Vegas. No rink. Not a big TV market. Hell, the local TV Stations don't even give the scores of the games.
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Goldwater offers up solutions
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Not a chance of them moving to Las Vegas. No rink. Not a big TV market. Hell, the local TV Stations don't even give the scores of the games.
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dash
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy bacon
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Yeah, well, that's step 1 (lol)
jstewismybastardson
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someone in KC can probably swoop in and buy either franchise for dirt cheap ... cheaper then the premium True North is going to be forced (willingly) to pay
BostonAJ
They fucking won?
Do you feel comfortable that it would work? I remember back in the Balsillie days you threw up a few posts saying it was questionable because of the city's size. It made me wonder. I'd love to see a team there again. And a team in Quebec and another team in Toronto. Six teams is bullshit.
/You Canadians just need to raise the population. So start humpin'.
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dash
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They're worked the numbers and they say it's doable, but I'm still concerned about how quickly the salary cap is rising. Check out the youtube below which goes into pretty good detail about the viability of the Jets in Winnipeg.
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BostonAJ
They fucking won?
Thanks for the video, dash. Very encouraging.
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AzDuckFan70
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I really hope they stay in Phx/Glendale. Without them there will be no teams here to root for. I hate the Suns and the wife of the Dbacks owner is on the Goldwater board hoping to boot the team out. Where was she when the Dbacks built their stadium with public bonds, oh wait they were part owners of the team from the beginning. Big double standard if you ask me. No rooting for the Dbacks for me if the Yotes leave.
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dash
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AJ, another good piece by Dave Naylor that looks at the viability of a NHL team in Winnipeg/Quebec City. We can't discount the importance of a strong Canadian dollar for smaller Canadian markets (the Leafs are exempt because they operate like a money printing press).
About a decade ago, an economics professor in Quebec predicted it was only be a matter of time before the Montreal Canadiens left La Belle Province for the United States.
It wasn't that Montrealers were losing their interest in hockey.
The professor simply argued that the slump of the Canadian dollar would force the Canadiens to relocate south of the border, just as it had done to teams in Quebec City and Winnipeg.
It sounds like an outlandish prediction.
But given that there had been just one bidder for the money-losing Canadiens when they went up for sale in 2000, it wasn't near as far-fetched as it seems today.
The discussion of NHL teams leaving Canada is no longer part of any conversation and has been replaced by the buzz of excitement over when and where a seventh team may arrive.
This week the Conference Board of Canada added its voice to those who believe that Canada is ready and able to support additional NHL teams, opining that teams in Winnipeg and Quebec City could be viable under current economic conditions.
The Conference Board was a key source of economic data and analysis last spring when TSN did its exploration of this issue in a six-part series called Why Not Canada? And not surprisingly, its conclusions reached this spring are almost identical to the ones TSN reached one year ago.
Essentially, the Conference Board said that while neither Winnipeg nor Quebec City represents a slam dunk for the NHL, there is no reason to dismiss either of them either.
From an economic point of view, Winnipeg and Quebec City are nearly twin cities, with almost identical populations, small corporate sectors, low unemployment and steady growth that have withstood the pressures of the recession.
Interestingly, one factor improving the attractiveness of Quebec City and Winnipeg as NHL cities is that both have experienced considerable economic growth since the mid-1990s, which flies in the face of those who predicted losing their NHL teams would spell doom.
Of course, any good economist could tell you that professional sports franchises do not create economic wealth, they merely redistribute disposable income, a lesson that would serve some of the city mothers and fathers in Glendale, Arizona, well about now.
The key thing to understand about Quebec City or Winnipeg is that the margin for error would be thin. Franchises in either city would require shrewd management and mid-range payrolls. And both would be vulnerable to any significant change in the current economic conditions, especially a drop in the Canadian dollar.
The rise in the dollar is far and away the biggest reason why the hopes of Winnipeg and Quebec City have sprung to life in recent years.
And it's not hard to see why. Consider that a team with a mid-range payroll in the NHL now spends about $50 million US per season on salary. With the current exchange of the Canadian dollar (1.05 per US $1.00), that would cost a team in Winnipeg or Quebec City $47.6 million Cdn.
Compare that to a $50 million payroll at the low-point of the Canadian dollars' slide (61.84 cents on Jan. 17, 2003) which would cost a team in Winnipeg or Quebec City $80.85 million.
That's a difference of $33,254,000 per season in costs expressed in Canadian dollars.
While the NHL's revenue sharing model would mitigate some of the currency depreciation, a large drop in the dollar would be difficult to overcome under any economic system.
No one is predicting the Canadian dollar is going to return to the 61-cent range. But then no one a decade ago was predicting it would fly above par with the U.S. greenback.
No matter how much analysis is performed on a specific market, there is no perfect science to determining whether it can support a given professional sports team. When it comes to predicting human behaviour, even the most exhaustive analysis can produce only educated guesses.
In addition, factors such as how successful a team will be in the standings, and how long a particular market would stand by a perennial loser, are impossible to measure.
But the one thing we do know about Quebec and Winnipeg, and which will not change under any circumstances, is that they enjoy a high concentration of hockey fans, a claim that cannot be made in many of the NHL's current markets.
The question is whether that concentration is enough to help either market weather the inevitable economics storm clouds that will emerge at some point in the future.
About a decade ago, an economics professor in Quebec predicted it was only be a matter of time before the Montreal Canadiens left La Belle Province for the United States.
It wasn't that Montrealers were losing their interest in hockey.
The professor simply argued that the slump of the Canadian dollar would force the Canadiens to relocate south of the border, just as it had done to teams in Quebec City and Winnipeg.
It sounds like an outlandish prediction.
But given that there had been just one bidder for the money-losing Canadiens when they went up for sale in 2000, it wasn't near as far-fetched as it seems today.
The discussion of NHL teams leaving Canada is no longer part of any conversation and has been replaced by the buzz of excitement over when and where a seventh team may arrive.
This week the Conference Board of Canada added its voice to those who believe that Canada is ready and able to support additional NHL teams, opining that teams in Winnipeg and Quebec City could be viable under current economic conditions.
The Conference Board was a key source of economic data and analysis last spring when TSN did its exploration of this issue in a six-part series called Why Not Canada? And not surprisingly, its conclusions reached this spring are almost identical to the ones TSN reached one year ago.
Essentially, the Conference Board said that while neither Winnipeg nor Quebec City represents a slam dunk for the NHL, there is no reason to dismiss either of them either.
From an economic point of view, Winnipeg and Quebec City are nearly twin cities, with almost identical populations, small corporate sectors, low unemployment and steady growth that have withstood the pressures of the recession.
Interestingly, one factor improving the attractiveness of Quebec City and Winnipeg as NHL cities is that both have experienced considerable economic growth since the mid-1990s, which flies in the face of those who predicted losing their NHL teams would spell doom.
Of course, any good economist could tell you that professional sports franchises do not create economic wealth, they merely redistribute disposable income, a lesson that would serve some of the city mothers and fathers in Glendale, Arizona, well about now.
The key thing to understand about Quebec City or Winnipeg is that the margin for error would be thin. Franchises in either city would require shrewd management and mid-range payrolls. And both would be vulnerable to any significant change in the current economic conditions, especially a drop in the Canadian dollar.
The rise in the dollar is far and away the biggest reason why the hopes of Winnipeg and Quebec City have sprung to life in recent years.
And it's not hard to see why. Consider that a team with a mid-range payroll in the NHL now spends about $50 million US per season on salary. With the current exchange of the Canadian dollar (1.05 per US $1.00), that would cost a team in Winnipeg or Quebec City $47.6 million Cdn.
Compare that to a $50 million payroll at the low-point of the Canadian dollars' slide (61.84 cents on Jan. 17, 2003) which would cost a team in Winnipeg or Quebec City $80.85 million.
That's a difference of $33,254,000 per season in costs expressed in Canadian dollars.
While the NHL's revenue sharing model would mitigate some of the currency depreciation, a large drop in the dollar would be difficult to overcome under any economic system.
No one is predicting the Canadian dollar is going to return to the 61-cent range. But then no one a decade ago was predicting it would fly above par with the U.S. greenback.
No matter how much analysis is performed on a specific market, there is no perfect science to determining whether it can support a given professional sports team. When it comes to predicting human behaviour, even the most exhaustive analysis can produce only educated guesses.
In addition, factors such as how successful a team will be in the standings, and how long a particular market would stand by a perennial loser, are impossible to measure.
But the one thing we do know about Quebec and Winnipeg, and which will not change under any circumstances, is that they enjoy a high concentration of hockey fans, a claim that cannot be made in many of the NHL's current markets.
The question is whether that concentration is enough to help either market weather the inevitable economics storm clouds that will emerge at some point in the future.
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sabresfaninthesouth
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Good article Dash.
I'm generally not a big fan of giving teams back to cities that already had their chance in the past, with limited exceptions (I was/am OK with the "new" Sens and the Avs for instance), but I would be OK with a return to Winnipeg.
Not so sure about QC though. I think if we're going to have an 8th Canadian team I would prefer to see it as a second team in the Toronto area.
I'm generally not a big fan of giving teams back to cities that already had their chance in the past, with limited exceptions (I was/am OK with the "new" Sens and the Avs for instance), but I would be OK with a return to Winnipeg.
Not so sure about QC though. I think if we're going to have an 8th Canadian team I would prefer to see it as a second team in the Toronto area.
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Didnt read this whole thread, but this looks pretty promising for all that is good and decent about this world (and for Phoenix fans)
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Well Glendale will vote yes to extend keeping the Coyotes there another financially losing year on Tuesday. They don't deserve a team there but hell, they will keep them anyway in all likely hood.
True North should really just forget this mess in Arizona and get the Thrashers sale done.
True North should really just forget this mess in Arizona and get the Thrashers sale done.
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dash
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Glendale looking to renew contract to keep Coyotes
Lieberman did not sound optimistic that a deal with Hulsizer can be worked out.
"I don't think we can finance Hulsizer. We voted on this on Dec. 14th, this is five months later," said Lieberman. "I don't think the bonding companies want this deal. I have not been able to dig up financial records on Hulsizer, try to find them."
However, he did bring up a familair name when it comes to prospective buyers for NHL franchises.
"I would be personally interested in seeing if we could do a deal with (Research in Motion president Jim) Balsillie," added Lieberman. "I think the best thing we could do is to get him to buy it and keep it here for 10 years and then I don't give a damn what he does with it."
Yup, those are some dedicated hockey fans in Glendale...
Lieberman did not sound optimistic that a deal with Hulsizer can be worked out.
"I don't think we can finance Hulsizer. We voted on this on Dec. 14th, this is five months later," said Lieberman. "I don't think the bonding companies want this deal. I have not been able to dig up financial records on Hulsizer, try to find them."
However, he did bring up a familair name when it comes to prospective buyers for NHL franchises.
"I would be personally interested in seeing if we could do a deal with (Research in Motion president Jim) Balsillie," added Lieberman. "I think the best thing we could do is to get him to buy it and keep it here for 10 years and then I don't give a damn what he does with it."
Yup, those are some dedicated hockey fans in Glendale...
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