Goalies Debate

[mattola]

Honestly, as sucky as it sounds, I think if you guys had a different goalie, you may just have had 2 stanley cups in the past 4 years. That team is fucking solid form front to back side to side... Luongo just doesnt show up when it counts the most.

That said... I think you guys have a legitimate shot again this year.

I took this from the Coffee Thread that Jeff and I will were talking about. \

One of the things that struck me this year and of the last few years is the Goalie position. I dont actually agree 100% with the above assesment of the Canucks. Reason being is that to honestly win a Cup I have come to believe that you just have to have your team and goalie peeking at the right time. Its almost a crap shoot when the playoffs start. Without luck, health and a groove not one team is for sure a contender out of the 16. Look at Boston for last year. They barely got past Montreal and with the PP they had leading up to the Finals that team theortically should not have won the Cup playing like that. Did they deserve it. Yes 100% anytime a team wins it they deserve it. Espeically with the way Thomas found his game. Not sure you can argue that. I actually thought Tampa was the better team in the Conference Finals but Boston grunted it out stronger. The year Carolina won it it was all about Ward. Did that team really belong in the Finals? They were lucky to draw Edmonton for their run and to have Edmonton lose Roloson game 1. in other words LUCK.

I really used to believe that having a elite goalie on your team was an advantage. Does it help yes of course in the event that your team is lucky enough that he gets on the streak you need him to be on and he is mentally strong enough during that time to prolong it. in the last few years look at the goalies on some of the teams that won. Not really elite but playing right at the right time

Ward
Khabibulin
Giguere
Niemi

these 4 for example played amazing during their runs and aside from Giguere have not really accomplished much after with Niemi being an exception
since he only won recently and needs some more time to show if he can do it again.

maybe Im rambling but I know for sure my attitude has changed dramatically on that position after last year

 

[SLY]

There is no doubt luck is involved. The team clicking at the right time makes a big difference as well. Some poeple seem to fold under pressure... Unfortunately for you guys I think that is where Luongo falls. Thomas was literally the sole reason we won the Cup last year, look at the fucking PP we had. It was like 1/27 going into the damn ECF. You can have all the offense you want, if the goalie just isnt on his game you will still lose, the PHI/WIN game is proof of that.

 

[SLY]

And an elite goalie on your team is definitely an advantage, no doubt about that... but to be just a regular season goalie is no good.

 

[mattola]

And an elite goalie on your team is definitely an advantage, no doubt about that... but to be just a regular season goalie is no good.

to me its become not about the Elite Goalie but about your goalie making the Elite save at the appropriate time. Saturday showed that a little when Lou made that monster glove save at 6-4

i had full confidence in a win for that game. let that in Wash wins

 

[SLY]

An elite goalie isn't elite unless they make those saves though. No?

 

[mattola]

An elite goalie isn't elite unless they make those saves though. No?

Not necessicarily. Do you consider Khabibulin to be elite? I never have. But that save he made with 2.7 seconds left in game 7 to win the cup was one of the most elite saves you can highlite.

its about when you make them to me that I now look for

 

[mattola]

and one point Ill totally agree on Jeff is it matters more of course when its game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final rather than Game 11 of an 82 game season.

Luongo makes that wrap around 1-0 save in game 7 who knows... who knows....

 

[jstewismybastardson]

to me its become not about the Elite Goalie but about your goalie making the Elite save at the appropriate time. Saturday showed that a little when Lou made that monster glove save at 6-4

i had full confidence in a win for that game. let that in Wash wins

Grant Fuhr anyone? coincidently he was Bobby Lous hero growing up

While I accept that argument ... ie its about making the big save at the biggest moment ..., bobby Lou doesnt have vintage Gretz,Messier,Kurri,Coffey, and a dead beat dad covering his mistakes with instant offense

 

[jstewismybastardson]

canucks using baseball signs

this one means ... "ok bobby lou ... make a fucking big save dammit"

 

[IPostedWhat]

canucks using baseball signs

this one means ... "ok bobby lou ... make a fucking big save dammit"

I would of guessed it means "blow me for the money shot?"

 

[sherbert1421]

you don't need an elite goalie to win the cup if you have great defensive play in front of him. You just need a goalie that and can make the timely save and doesn't lose you the game. I think chicago and detroit have demonstrated that quite well in their most recent cups

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

As most on this board know I've never been sold on Luongo. That being said I think he got too much of the blame for the loss in the finals. The Bruins outscored the Canucks badly overall in the series. The Sedins didn't get it done.

I think it depends on how a team is constructed. If Lundqvist or Kiprusoff were on better teams they'd be cup contenders every year. Same can be said for Vokoun. The Canucks have a tough decision to make in a year or two. Schneider & Lack aren't going to be backups forever.

 

[elocomotive]

I think that on the whole, it's more important to have "hot" goalie than the best goalie. That said, the better the goalie, the more likely they are to be hot at the right time. You saw this last year with Thomas - elite + hot = unstoppable playoff force. And I think that is true of goalies making the save at the right moment as well. Since the better ones are more likely to make the save overall, they are more likely to make it in the big moment. Though some do handle that pressure moment better than others, I don't believe that goalies somehow makes themselves better in tough moments. I think the opposite is true, that when the pressure is on, the goalies that aren't as elite are more likely to let the pressure cause them to wither or make a mistake.

Goalie is a bizarre position in hockey. On the one hand, it's the most important b/c it's the last line of defense. On the other, the difference between the very best and the slightly below average is usually about a 2% difference in performance. Which is why many teams are devoting less money to it. On the other hand, the difference between a top scorer (35-40 goals) and an average scorer (15 goals) is often around 100-150%. This seems to cause two philosophies by general managers regarding goalies - (1) spend a ton b/c it's the most important position and they are always on the ice and (2) spend little b/c the difference in performance is negligible and you can't control a guy being hot or not, so improve the team in front of him. We've seen both strategies work to secure Cups in recent years.

 

[IPostedWhat]

A goalie in the NHL is a lot like a running back in the NFL. They can definitely have an influence on the outcome of a game, but it's not like you can't find a good one if you need to.

 

[mooger_35]

A goalie in the NHL is a lot like a running back in the NFL. They can definitely have an influence on the outcome of a game, but it's not like you can't find a good one if you need to.

Philly begs to differ

 

[beantownmaniac]

Grant Fuhr anyone? coincidently he was Bobby Lous hero growing up

While I accept that argument ... ie its about making the big save at the biggest moment ..., bobby Lou doesnt have vintage Gretz,Messier,Kurri,Coffey, and a dead beat dad covering his mistakes with instant offense

Bobby Lou does have some great players in front of him, and IMO, the league was a little watered down for most of the 80's. As for Fuhr, a little cocaine goes a long way in making those "flashing the glove" saves and such.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

As great as Hasek was he couldn't win a championship in Buffalo because the team just didn't score enough. It wasn't a bad team they worked hard but had very little offensive talent.

He goes to Detroit and win's one. It's a team sport and all of the pieces of the puzzle need to be in place along with some luck and lack of injuries. The stars need to align sometimes and an elite goalie doesn't hurt.

 

[Automattic]

Goalies are such old news. It's all about powerplay goals nowadays. (you guys must not of got the memo)

 

[IPostedWhat]

Goalies are such old news. It's all about Powerplay goals nowadays. (you guys must not of got the memo)

SHOOT!!!

SHOOT!!!​

SHOOT!!!!!​

 

[Automattic]

SHOOT!!!

SHOOT!!!​

SHOOT!!!!!​

You have to throw some <bangs on the glass> in there too.