Giants worth 2 Billion Dollars

[msgkings322]

That excuse is so tired. You always eventually fall back on that old nonsense.

And you always troll like you did as NolanNonsense. Don't worry, no one gives a shit.

 

[msgkings322]

Again, you seem fixated on cost. I don't accept the Giants "budget" excuse. It held a little water when they were trying to pay off the stadium but that bill is gone and the team is rife with cash.

Secondly, there may not be a guarantee that Shields or Lester would be more successful than Aoki and McGeHee but its a pretty good bet based on past peformance.

I think the problem is we look at the situation in two different ways. You certainly have the upper hand because of the team's recent success but it seems more like an abberation than a sustainable plan.

OK, here's your chance to show some self awareness. Why does cal have the 'upper hand'? We are all Giants fans we all have been getting EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT and you still find ways to bitch and troll and be negative. Not making bad long term decisions IS about having a SUSTAINABLE PLAN. Throwing money willy nilly around makes you this year's Yankees. We don't want to be this year's Yankees. Maybe you're not a Giants fan at all?

 

[calsnowskier]

OK, here's your chance to show some self awareness. Why does cal have the 'upper hand'? We are all Giants fans we all have been getting EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT and you still find ways to bitch and troll and be negative. Not making bad long term decisions IS about having a SUSTAINABLE PLAN. Throwing money willy nilly around makes you this year's Yankees. We don't want to be this year's Yankees. Maybe you're not a Giants fan at all?

Remember, he just moved to the BA from Buffalo, and is trying on the local flavor.

At least that is the back story for this sig...

 

[Band of Brothers]

A spirited discussion today on KNBR as Larry Krueger is thinking right along the lines of me. He is promoting going out and making a play for Cole Hammels to strengthen the rotation. Word is the Phillies are looking to move Hammels and Larry's argument is that the Giants value has gone up by 1 Billion and they are taking in almost 400 Mill a year in revenue. I agree with Larry that this is the time to strike while the Giants window is wide open having Sabean,Bochy, and this group of players together. The thing that scares me is that most people seem gun shy about spending some money to improve the team because the Giants have gone on this run without high priced signings except for Pence. I see nothing wrong with expanding the payroll to take a shot at greatness. People knock spending but the fact is that the more shots you take the more chances you will hit big with one of them.

Larry makes the point that if the Giants add Hammels it makes good sense to make the product stronger and in turn if the Giants make it back to the WS the value of the team will go up even more. Larry interviewed Rags yesterday and Rags said only Heston is ready to come up in a emergency situation and no one else is close to being a starter at the MLB level. Hammels is a great pitcher and is only 31 . He would strengthen the team especially with almost 30 mill coming off the books next year with Lincecum and others contracts coming off the books.

I agree with Larry that the time is now to make a move while the window is still open. They have the money and there is no reason why the Giants can't invest more into the team and take their shot at history. Adding Hammels makes sense and it would also send a cannonball shot across the bow of the Dodgers in the West. The fact is that the Dodgers are predicted to win 95-96 and the Giants are at 84-86. There is nothing wrong with taking a shot and challenging for the division instead of hoping for a wild card. Spending more money is not taboo especially when the cash is there to spend. Some fans in the Bay Area think spending more will jinx the Giants which is a joke. If you make good decisions which we have one of the smartest GM's going the money will be well spent and Hammels does make sense. Strike while the iron is hot and spending more to improve the team is not a sin.

Go Giants !!

 

[calsnowskier]

Not surprised Larry is making that point. He has always been a shock jock.

That said, I do see the argument. I just don't agree with it. 1) Buying the hot commodity rarely if ever pays off. The price simply becomes too high. 2) I am not convinced that the Giant s have enough in the system to be able to pull off a trade with Philly, anyway. They are going to want AT LEAST 1 TOP prospect, probably 2. And while I like the depth of our system, it is not top-heavy. I think the Phil's would want to deal with someone else.

 

[Band of Brothers]

I am surprised Cal that you don't see the big picture. I say go for it. For a chance at making history with the window open. Fuck it ...the time is now. Rock and Roll. Let it fly.

 

[Montalban]

OK, here's your chance to show some self awareness. Why does cal have the 'upper hand'? We are all Giants fans we all have been getting EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT and you still find ways to bitch and troll and be negative. Not making bad long term decisions IS about having a SUSTAINABLE PLAN. Throwing money willy nilly around makes you this year's Yankees. We don't want to be this year's Yankees. Maybe you're not a Giants fan at all?

He has the upper hand in the argument because it is tough to argue with success and success is what all of us want. he points to that success as the reason the Giants should keep doing what they are doing.

Where we disagree is on the part about sneaking into the playoffs and hoping to get hot being a sustainable plan. You cannot plan for deadline pickups. That player has to be unwanted from this curent team and that does not happen often with good players. We also disagree on money being an object. He, for some reason, believes in a budget. I on the other hand see no need for one.

The argument about the Yankees is not a good one however. the Yankees are competitve every year and have been for 3 and a half decades because they constantly look to get the best players available. The Giants have only been successful for a short period of time. I hope they can sustain it but I don't believe they can by trying to piecemeal a team together each year.

Our team is clutch though, I'll give them that. I have no beef at all with the players, Bochy or sabean. It is the owners and the way they shackle Sabean and Bochy that bugs me.

 

[calsnowskier]

He has the upper hand in the argument because it is tough to argue with success and success is what all of us want. he points to that success as the reason the Giants should keep doing what they are doing.

Where we disagree is on the part about sneaking into the playoffs and hoping to get hot being a sustainable plan. You cannot plan for deadline pickups. That player has to be unwanted from this curent team and that does not happen often with good players. We also disagree on money being an object. He, for some reason, believes in a budget. I on the other hand see no need for one.

The argument about the Yankees is not a good one however. the Yankees are competitve every year and have been for 3 and a half decades because they constantly look to get the best players available. The Giants have only been successful for a short period of time. I hope they can sustain it but I don't believe they can by trying to piecemeal a team together each year.

Our team is clutch though, I'll give them that. I have no beef at all with the players, Bochy or sabean. It is the owners and the way they shackle Sabean and Bochy that bugs me.

EVERY team trys to get the best players available. Even the Diamondbacks "try to get the best players available".

However, to say the Yankees were good BECAUSE they were crazy on the FA front is misleading by a rather large margin. They were good for so long primarily because they had a core of amazing players come up together either through the draft, international amateur signings or prospect trades...

Jeter
Williams
Pettitte
Posada
Cano
Rivera

When you produce 6 HOF/near-HOF players in a 20-year span, success is bound to follow.

 

[Montalban]

EVERY team trys to get the best players available. Even the Diamondbacks "try to get the best players available".

However, to say the Yankees were good BECAUSE they were crazy on the FA front is misleading by a rather large margin. They were good for so long primarily because they had a core of amazing players come up together either through the draft, international amateur signings or prospect trades...

Jeter
Williams
Pettitte
Posada
Cano
Rivera

When you produce 6 HOF/near-HOF players in a 20-year span, success is bound to follow.

I never said that. Geez you even bolded what I said and still tried to misquote me. I said they constantly go after the best players available, which they do. To say the Giants do that is totally opposite of what you said a month or so ago. When I asked why major FAs don't wign with the Giants, you tried to tell me that many of the players that don't get signed here is because the Giants don't want them or didn't try to sign them. Can you possibly deny that you said that? My gosh!

 

[msgkings322]

I never said that. Geez you even bolded what I said and still tried to misquote me. I said they constantly go after the best players available, which they do. To say the Giants do that is totally opposite of what you said a month or so ago. When I asked why major FAs don't wign with the Giants, you tried to tell me that many of the players that don't get signed here is because the Giants don't want them or didn't try to sign them. Can you possibly deny that you said that? My gosh!

Listen Nolan: you are the worst kind of poster, the kind who thinks he knows a lot about baseball but doesn't know shit. The Giants know a SHIT TON more about running a team and winning rings than you do. As in, thousands of times more. This offseason they did exactly as a smart observer could have guessed: they took a run at Panda but didn't make the overkill offer that he would've had to take and then be fat and unhappy here. They took a shot at Lester, didn't get him, and then said let's not make a bunch of dumb Zito/Rowand moves just to force it. We win all the time now, let's play the SUSTAINABLE LONG GAME. Next year with Tim and Hudson off the books you watch, they will actually sign some major names. There's a lot of ptiching FAs next year better than Lester, like Price and Cueto.

Listen to me, don't listen to me, I'm out of fucks to give. The Giants are amazing at running a team and you are, uh, not.

 

[Montalban]

Listen Nolan: you are the worst kind of poster, the kind who thinks he knows a lot about baseball but doesn't know shit. The Giants know a SHIT TON more about running a team and winning rings than you do. As in, thousands of times more. This offseason they did exactly as a smart observer could have guessed: they took a run at Panda but didn't make the overkill offer that he would've had to take and then be fat and unhappy here. They took a shot at Lester, didn't get him, and then said let's not make a bunch of dumb Zito/Rowand moves just to force it. We win all the time now, let's play the SUSTAINABLE LONG GAME. Next year with Tim and Hudson off the books you watch, they will actually sign some major names. There's a lot of ptiching FAs next year better than Lester, like Price and Cueto.

Listen to me, don't listen to me, I'm out of fucks to give. The Giants are amazing at running a team and you are, uh, not.

Your opinion is noted, skewed though it may by the Orange and Black lenses you view the baseball world through. But I think history has shown, and will continue to show, that teams that are willing to spend will usually out-perform in the long run the ones who won't.

 

[msgkings322]

Your opinion is noted, skewed though it may by the Orange and Black lenses you view the baseball world through. But I think history has shown, and will continue to show, that teams that are willing to spend will usually out-perform in the long run the ones who won't.

Sure, that's why the Giants with their 4th highest payroll in the game should continue to outperform.

And how any fan of this team can somehow NOT have orange and black glasses on after the last 5 years is honestly impossible to fathom.

 

[calsnowskier]

Sure, that's why the Giants with their 4th highest payroll in the game should continue to outperform.

And how any fan of this team can somehow NOT have orange and black glasses on after the last 5 years is honestly impossible to fathom.

Don't you know that the 4th highest payroll just proves that the team is cheep and only interested in profits, and the fact that there were 2 years in the last 5 that they didn't win the World Series shows that they have zero commitment to anything but their pocketbook?

Come on, dude, take off your orange glasses...

 

[SF11704]

Come on, dude, take off your orange glasses...

Not really sure any of us other than BoB really wear orange glasses. BoB is our resident cheerleader. He always sees everything in a positive light. Doesn't make him correct. Just makes him appear 'positive'.

SF has the 4th largest payroll in baseball and the 3 WS titles mean nothing as we enter 2015. It's a clean slate. There is no edge given to last years WS title holder just because we have the title. I actually think it makes it a little more difficult. Almost like being a target. As much as I hate to admit it I do see Nolans' side of the argument. I just don't think it's 100% accurate. There are some major distortions to the 'cheap' position.
IMHO money fixes issues but usually doesn't quite have the same effect when dealing with questions. Quests are what usually proceeds an issue. In 2015 I think we have MANY questions and spending millions of dollars on questions isn't what any good management system would support. Our SP is MAYBE very good. But there are BIG QUESTIONS. How will Cain respond after the surgery? Will Tim be serviceable? Huddy is not a kid. What will 2015 bring from our rotation. I personally believe that Bum is the only non-question. But, do we spend millions on Hamels to fill the gap or do we wait and see what develops. Some real good SP are in next year's FA market.
Pagan is a question. Injury prone and coming off of back surgery. Pence is hurt. Not long term but he will be out for a while. Who's in left. A million candidates. All questions. In Panik for real or was least year just a blip. What about Duffy? You just don't spend millions and millions of dollars of trying to resolve questions.

This is how I read Nolan's responses. He doesn't see these as questions. I think he sees them as problems and wants the Giants to spend what is necessary to fix them. I just don't believe that management will respond to these questions with a financial investment .... just yet ..... maybe in July .... depending on where we are and what questions have been identified as true issues .... they may ...

 

[Mays-Fan]

Not really sure any of us other than BoB really wear orange glasses. BoB is our resident cheerleader. He always sees everything in a positive light. Doesn't make him correct. Just makes him appear 'positive'.

SF has the 4th largest payroll in baseball and the 3 WS titles mean nothing as we enter 2015. It's a clean slate. There is no edge given to last years WS title holder just because we have the title. I actually think it makes it a little more difficult. Almost like being a target. As much as I hate to admit it I do see Nolans' side of the argument. I just don't think it's 100% accurate. There are some major distortions to the 'cheap' position.
IMHO money fixes issues but usually doesn't quite have the same effect when dealing with questions. Quests are what usually proceeds an issue. In 2015 I think we have MANY questions and spending millions of dollars on questions isn't what any good management system would support. Our SP is MAYBE very good. But there are BIG QUESTIONS. How will Cain respond after the surgery? Will Tim be serviceable? Huddy is not a kid. What will 2015 bring from our rotation. I personally believe that Bum is the only non-question. But, do we spend millions on Hamels to fill the gap or do we wait and see what develops. Some real good SP are in next year's FA market.
Pagan is a question. Injury prone and coming off of back surgery. Pence is hurt. Not long term but he will be out for a while. Who's in left. A million candidates. All questions. In Panik for real or was least year just a blip. What about Duffy? You just don't spend millions and millions of dollars of trying to resolve questions.

This is how I read Nolan's responses. He doesn't see these as questions. I think he sees them as problems and wants the Giants to spend what is necessary to fix them. I just don't believe that management will respond to these questions with a financial investment .... just yet ..... maybe in July .... depending on where we are and what questions have been identified as true issues .... they may ...

Ben Zobrist would have looked REAL good in a Giants uni just about now. But if I recall correctly, he was not an FA, but we would have had to trade for him, and we really didn't have the pieces.

For the budget-busting wannabes, the Giants have raised payroll 7% a year or so as far back as the eye can see, and will likely continue to do so. It has culminated in three WSC's in five years. They have a system in place, it has been extremely successful, and I wouldn't expect or want them to deviate from that.

This is a business, not a weekend in Vegas where you take your winnings and just let them ride. The FO is building their bankroll just fine, thank you. Better players keep the pots small, chip up, and wait for the best situations. They have three bracelets now, and looking for more.

 

[SF11704]

This is a business, not a weekend in Vegas where you take your winnings and just let them ride. The FO is building their bankroll just fine, thank you. Better players keep the pots small, chip up, and wait for the best situations. They have three bracelets now, and looking for more.

Said it MUCH better than I did!!!!!!!!

 

[Band of Brothers]

I keep hearing how I am the cheerleader of this board which is not totally correct. I have been around..I have lived through the tough times and I was real tough on the Giants in the past. I wanted to win and the Giants responded with 3 WS Titles. I believe in giving people credit when they give it all they have and bring it home. They have earned so much respect and I reward that with my belief in them. They have raised their game to the highest level and for that I am so grateful to have seen all their dreams come true. Call me a cheerleader ...you bet your ass ..they stood tall and for that they have my utmost respect. Give credit when credit is due. The Giants live on the mountain top and earned every bit of it.

Go Giants !!

 

[SF11704]

I keep hearing how I am the cheerleader of this board which is not totally correct. I have been around..I have lived through the tough times and I was real tough on the Giants in the past. I wanted to win and the Giants responded with 3 WS Titles. I believe in giving people credit when they give it all they have and bring it home. They have earned so much respect and I reward that with my belief in them. They have raised their game to the highest level and for that I am so grateful to have seen all their dreams come true. Call me a cheerleader ...you bet your ass ..they stood tall and for that they have my utmost respect. Give credit when credit is due. The Giants live on the mountain top and earned every bit of it.

Go Giants !!

Nothing wrong with being a 'cheerleader'. Every board needs to have a few. You are a balance that is needed to offset the eternal pessimist. In general you tend to not be confrontational and always see the good side of almost any situation. When push comes to shove ..... much better to be the eternal optimist rather than the eternal pessimist. Very difficult to enjoy the moment when one spends all their time searching for the miserable seconds .....

 

[Band of Brothers]

Nothing wrong with being a 'cheerleader'. Every board needs to have a few. You are a balance that is needed to offset the eternal pessimist. In general you tend to not be confrontational and always see the good side of almost any situation. When push comes to shove ..... much better to be the eternal optimist rather than the eternal pessimist. Very difficult to enjoy the moment when one spends all their time searching for the miserable seconds .....

"No pessimist ever discovered the secret of the stars,or sailed to an uncharted land,or opened a new doorway for the human spirit "

Helen Keller

 

[calsnowskier]

BoB, you may not be my favorite poster, but you are genuine in your feelings, and I respect you for that. You are always welcome here, IMHO.

No matter how many times we butt heads, please always remember that.