Giants looking to add a high-profile executive

[LHG]

I understand the frustration, but Posey doesn’t sound like he’s ready to give up the tools of ignorance just yet and Belt is probably about as low as he can go trade value-wise.

In my humble opinion:

Even though he’s the player I’d like to see go the least.....Bum makes the most sense. Get as much as you can this offseason. Tell him and his agent that we love him and we’ll do him a solid by trading him to a playoff contender.....just come back and give us a chance to match your best offer after the 2019 season.

Hope for a bounce-back season from Posey after his hip surgery.....hope that can spark LOLngoria for a decent middle of the order.

Trade Sammy and Melancon at the trade deadline for nothing after theor semi-respectable 2019 campaigns (low 4 era and health/velocity for Sam and good peripherals across the board for Melancon). Addition by abortion.

Do not sign Harper or Machado. If DJ Lemahieu can be had for a decent 3-5 year contract, go get it.

Sign a guy like Drew Pomeranz looking for a rebound year in a much better park to take over some of Bum’s innings.

Keep your strong BP in tact (unless somebody is willing to overpay for Strick or Watson).

Hire the right GM, let the kids play (Mac and Duggar) and Deal with the pain of the 2019 season.

Did you put in your resume yet?

 

[LHG]

Giants dismiss Bobby Evans, Baer focused on 'next-gen' GM

I have my doubts about this "new structure" the Giants will have in place. Sabean's role doesn't change and the article above acknowledges that this is a similar set up that was in place in 2015 when Evans was promoted to GM. However, he was moved under Sabean last year. I really think that Sabean, especially since he's in charge of hiring the new GM, is going to be hands on, which makes me doubt that there is going to be that big of changes that have been talked about. I reference the following paragraphs from the article:

"While Sabean does not plan to take a hands-on approach to baseball operations, his presence on the search committee gives him the authority to help select a candidate whose vision for the future of the Giants aligns with his own.

“We have had success through pitching, defense and timely hitting and quite frankly, the nature of the ballpark might be a tall order for any other way of doing business,” Sabean said. “I don’t see this organization, no matter who comes in and takes over and who manages in the future, turn ourselves into the Broad Street Bullies and become the Yankees.”"

 

[calsnowskier]

The new guy will report directly to Baer, so Sabes will not have the same relationship he had with Evens. Evens reported to Sabes.

I think Sabes is essentially hiring his replacement. Kinda like Pat Quinn with Sabes.

 

[SFGRTB]

Giants dismiss Bobby Evans, Baer focused on 'next-gen' GM

I have my doubts about this "new structure" the Giants will have in place. Sabean's role doesn't change and the article above acknowledges that this is a similar set up that was in place in 2015 when Evans was promoted to GM. However, he was moved under Sabean last year. I really think that Sabean, especially since he's in charge of hiring the new GM, is going to be hands on, which makes me doubt that there is going to be that big of changes that have been talked about. I reference the following paragraphs from the article:

"While Sabean does not plan to take a hands-on approach to baseball operations, his presence on the search committee gives him the authority to help select a candidate whose vision for the future of the Giants aligns with his own.

“We have had success through pitching, defense and timely hitting and quite frankly, the nature of the ballpark might be a tall order for any other way of doing business,” Sabean said. “I don’t see this organization, no matter who comes in and takes over and who manages in the future, turn ourselves into the Broad Street Bullies and become the Yankees.”"

While not encouraging, I agree with Cal here.... probably because that's just what I hope happens though. From what it sounds like, this new hire is going to have a lot of power, more than Evans did. They're going to serve in a presidential role along the likes of Theo Epstien, Andrew Firedman... and Brian Sabean. I think, like Boch, Sabes will be around next year out of respect, but will kindly be shown the door in 2020. 2019 is going to be weird, I think, but it will be a year of evaluation and behind the scenes stuff.

 

[LHG]

While not encouraging, I agree with Cal here.... probably because that's just what I hope happens though. From what it sounds like, this new hire is going to have a lot of power, more than Evans did. They're going to serve in a presidential role along the likes of Theo Epstien, Andrew Firedman... and Brian Sabean. I think, like Boch, Sabes will be around next year out of respect, but will kindly be shown the door in 2020. 2019 is going to be weird, I think, but it will be a year of evaluation and behind the scenes stuff.

Maybe the author of this article wrote it this way because he interviewed Sabean, but I get the impression that Sabean is going to have a lot of say in who gets hired and he is looking, based on the quote I gave, for someone to do what they did in 2010. Doesn't sound like there will be any shift in the power department. And maybe Sabean's importance is being blown out of proportion in my mind from this article but I don't hold the same optimistic views as you and cal.

 

[SFGRTB]

Maybe the author of this article wrote it this way because he interviewed Sabean, but I get the impression that Sabean is going to have a lot of say in who gets hired and he is looking, based on the quote I gave, for someone to do what they did in 2010. Doesn't sound like there will be any shift in the power department. And maybe Sabean's importance is being blown out of proportion in my mind from this article but I don't hold the same optimistic views as you and cal.

The power structure the past 25-ish years has been more of a collaboration than a singular guy calling the shots (Sabean). There's been different people talking to the media or to other teams, but it seems like for years it's been a pretty consistent team effort. From what I understand Sabean took a step back in 2015 from the day-to-day, the phone calls, the media appearances and left that to Evans, but the decision making stayed rather the same between Sabes, Evans, Tidrow, Shelley, Goldfarb and Barr, and probably others. Sabean came back to the forefront last year, perhaps at the request of ownership, but the decision making remained the same. That's been stressed many times by Evans.

So what I'm seeing here, and guessing will happen as the Giants find a new face, is that guys like Barr, Goldfarb and Shelley, and perhaps even Tidrow, are going to be pushed out or reassigned, and the new person will bring in their own people. In that scenario, Sabean sticks around but is over-ruled.

Now it really depends on who gets hired. As you say if Sabean has a great influence on who's hired, then I frankly worry that it would be someone like Agent Ned. That would be awful because nothing would really change. It's a tough situation because you need someone like Sabean in the room to bounce ideas and ask the good questions (I don't trust Larry Baer to ask the hard-hitting baseball ops questions, just the financials), but is Sabes going to be professional enough to properly interview someone who could easily replace him in a year?

 

[LHG]

The power structure the past 25-ish years has been more of a collaboration than a singular guy calling the shots (Sabean). There's been different people talking to the media or to other teams, but it seems like for years it's been a pretty consistent team effort. From what I understand Sabean took a step back in 2015 from the day-to-day, the phone calls, the media appearances and left that to Evans, but the decision making stayed rather the same between Sabes, Evans, Tidrow, Shelley, Goldfarb and Barr, and probably others. Sabean came back to the forefront last year, perhaps at the request of ownership, but the decision making remained the same. That's been stressed many times by Evans.

So what I'm seeing here, and guessing will happen as the Giants find a new face, is that guys like Barr, Goldfarb and Shelley, and perhaps even Tidrow, are going to be pushed out or reassigned, and the new person will bring in their own people. In that scenario, Sabean sticks around but is over-ruled.

Now it really depends on who gets hired. As you say if Sabean has a great influence on who's hired, then I frankly worry that it would be someone like Agent Ned. That would be awful because nothing would really change. It's a tough situation because you need someone like Sabean in the room to bounce ideas and ask the good questions (I don't trust Larry Baer to ask the hard-hitting baseball ops questions, just the financials), but is Sabes going to be professional enough to properly interview someone who could easily replace him in a year?

And that is what concerns me. From what I read in Sabean's comments, he is looking for someone to, essentially, continue doing the same thing that won them 3 World Series championships. On the surface, that sounds great, until you realize that the same thing has also brought the past 3 seasons. I would guess that the amount of influence Sabean has in the hire will impact the amount of change that happens in the organization.
My hot take on this is that Evans was demoted (I've read somewhere that he'll be re-assigned elsewhere in the org) not because the team really wants to make radical changes but because Sabean didn't like how Evans executed the plan and someone needed to be the scapegoat for the last 2 and a half seasons. Because there is change, the hyperbolic "radical changes" has been used. I really hope I'm wrong but I think this is a good possibility. I think real change will occur only when Sabean is gone.

 

[SFGRTB]

And that is what concerns me. From what I read in Sabean's comments, he is looking for someone to, essentially, continue doing the same thing that won them 3 World Series championships. On the surface, that sounds great, until you realize that the same thing has also brought the past 3 seasons. I would guess that the amount of influence Sabean has in the hire will impact the amount of change that happens in the organization.
My hot take on this is that Evans was demoted (I've read somewhere that he'll be re-assigned elsewhere in the org) not because the team really wants to make radical changes but because Sabean didn't like how Evans executed the plan and someone needed to be the scapegoat for the last 2 and a half seasons. Because there is change, the hyperbolic "radical changes" has been used. I really hope I'm wrong but I think this is a good possibility. I think real change will occur only when Sabean is gone.

And that's the really annoying part about this situation as a whole the last few years. Yes, one method worked to bring three rings in five seasons. But to live-and-die by that method for the rest of your tenure? It's about adapting instead of forcing one way. The Rays, for example, used the bullpenning method because they lost three starters they were going to rely on (Brett Honeywell, Jose De Leon and Nathan Eovaldi [for a short time]) all within Spring Training. Instead of looking outside to acquire a SP, they came up with this bullpenning method and it worked out really well for them. It wouldn't have worked for every team, and they planned for at least one game a week to be a bullpen day even before the injuries, but they were creative and adapted.

My hope is the Giants have a front office that will do the same. Not necessarily bullpen three out of the five days, but use the roster in creative ways that isn't locked into one certain method. If the new group comes in here and determines that the way the team has been operating the last decade is the best way, great. But having them FORCED (or I guess hiring someone who will do Sabean's bidding) to operate the team the same way as the last decade will be greatly disappointing.

 

[LHG]

And this from MLB Trade Rumors:
"The process could take several weeks as Giants leadership interviews a wide range of candidates with varying backgrounds. Notably, Schulman adds that the Giants aren’t set on hiring any one specific type of executive (e.g. analytically inclined, traditional scouting background, etc.) and seem to be embarking on this process with an open-minded approach."

 

[stanford the manford]

And this from MLB Trade Rumors:
"The process could take several weeks as Giants leadership interviews a wide range of candidates with varying backgrounds. Notably, Schulman adds that the Giants aren’t set on hiring any one specific type of executive (e.g. analytically inclined, traditional scouting background, etc.) and seem to be embarking on this process with an open-minded approach."

does anyone think replacing evans will make any difference as long a sabean and bochy are in place? doesn't sound like they even know what they are looking for in a gm, that's similar to the 49er's management approach

 

[LHG]

After reading Bagg's article after today's debacle in the Athletic, I am not so sure.

Care to summarize, for those of us who are cheap (or semi-cheap)?

 

[calsnowskier]

Care to summarize, for those of us who are cheap (or semi-cheap)?

I believe the term you are looking for is “cheap as fuck”...

 

[SFGRTB]

Care to summarize, for those of us who are cheap (or semi-cheap)?

I'll post some tidbits:

"Baer provided a few additional notes on how that hiring process — ownership’s most significant decision since making Sabean the baseball operations chief in 1996 — will play out:

— It will be private. The Giants do not plan to make a show of announcing candidates as they cycle through interviews.

— It probably won’t involve an external recruitment firm, although Baer did not rule out utilizing one if only to assist with logistics. Baer signaled that Sabean and Bochy would have the strongest voices as ownership compiles a list of candidates.

— The process of identifying those candidates, at least on an informal level, already has begun.

“We have a pretty good take through our networks (for) some of the good candidates,” Baer said. “Brian and I have talked a lot. Talked to Boch. He knows a lot of people in the game. It’s just the preparation to kind of put together a grid and then go from there.”

----------

"After so many years operating with Sabean’s group, Baer is said to be eager to bring in a wide number of candidates that represent a range of backgrounds and perspectives. Yet industry sources also cautioned that the Giants might be better served to concentrate their efforts on a very short list of preferred candidates, since several of the hottest upwardly mobile executives in the game — Milwaukee’s David Stearns, for example — might be reticent to go through a process that would be akin to throwing their hat in the ring.

Another industry source suggested that Baer has viewed the game through Sabean’s scouting-tinged prism for so many years, it’s possible that the candidates who resonate most strongly with him might value what the current department already values.

Baer, asked to expand on what he meant by identifying a “next-gen” GM, said the most important criteria is “a great baseball mind.”

And Sabean, asked how he would define a “great baseball mind,” sketched out a front office not altogether different from the longstanding group that put together three World Series winners from 2010 to 2014.

“Well, I don’t know if Larry can find it in one person,” Sabean said. “If you’re asking me personally, it would be the combination of my skill set and maybe (former GM) Bobby Evans’ skill set. So it’s somebody who’s strong on both sides of the house and has been able to matriculate while learning from both sides."

---------

"Would the approach to Madison Bumgarner — trade him, hold him or extend him? — be a key question to ask in any interview?

Baer said no. Sabean said yes.

“It would certainly be heavy in the equation, and I’m sure that will come up in the interview process,” Sabean said.

“But I don’t think it’s a criteria, if a guy or gal says one thing or another on Bumgarner,” Baer hastily added. “You know, I’m sure there will be concepts and themes and approaches to take and that would be factored into the whole short, mid and long term.”

---------

(okay this is me now)

Basically my fear that Baer needs someone LIKE Sabean in the room rings true, but as is the fear that Sabean is going to influence Baer in a specific direction. Sounds like at this points there's a lot of confusion and miscommunication

 

[Stokes1931]

I'll post some tidbits:

"Baer provided a few additional notes on how that hiring process — ownership’s most significant decision since making Sabean the baseball operations chief in 1996 — will play out:

— It will be private. The Giants do not plan to make a show of announcing candidates as they cycle through interviews.

— It probably won’t involve an external recruitment firm, although Baer did not rule out utilizing one if only to assist with logistics. Baer signaled that Sabean and Bochy would have the strongest voices as ownership compiles a list of candidates.

— The process of identifying those candidates, at least on an informal level, already has begun.

“We have a pretty good take through our networks (for) some of the good candidates,” Baer said. “Brian and I have talked a lot. Talked to Boch. He knows a lot of people in the game. It’s just the preparation to kind of put together a grid and then go from there.”

----------

"After so many years operating with Sabean’s group, Baer is said to be eager to bring in a wide number of candidates that represent a range of backgrounds and perspectives. Yet industry sources also cautioned that the Giants might be better served to concentrate their efforts on a very short list of preferred candidates, since several of the hottest upwardly mobile executives in the game — Milwaukee’s David Stearns, for example — might be reticent to go through a process that would be akin to throwing their hat in the ring.

Another industry source suggested that Baer has viewed the game through Sabean’s scouting-tinged prism for so many years, it’s possible that the candidates who resonate most strongly with him might value what the current department already values.

Baer, asked to expand on what he meant by identifying a “next-gen” GM, said the most important criteria is “a great baseball mind.”

And Sabean, asked how he would define a “great baseball mind,” sketched out a front office not altogether different from the longstanding group that put together three World Series winners from 2010 to 2014.

“Well, I don’t know if Larry can find it in one person,” Sabean said. “If you’re asking me personally, it would be the combination of my skill set and maybe (former GM) Bobby Evans’ skill set. So it’s somebody who’s strong on both sides of the house and has been able to matriculate while learning from both sides."

---------

"Would the approach to Madison Bumgarner — trade him, hold him or extend him? — be a key question to ask in any interview?

Baer said no. Sabean said yes.

“It would certainly be heavy in the equation, and I’m sure that will come up in the interview process,” Sabean said.

“But I don’t think it’s a criteria, if a guy or gal says one thing or another on Bumgarner,” Baer hastily added. “You know, I’m sure there will be concepts and themes and approaches to take and that would be factored into the whole short, mid and long term.”

---------

(okay this is me now)

Basically my fear that Baer needs someone LIKE Sabean in the room rings true, but as is the fear that Sabean is going to influence Baer in a specific direction. Sounds like at this points there's a lot of confusion and miscommunication

Thanks! I was going to post some of this later today, but you beat me to it.

 

[LHG]

I'll post some tidbits:

"Baer provided a few additional notes on how that hiring process — ownership’s most significant decision since making Sabean the baseball operations chief in 1996 — will play out:

— It will be private. The Giants do not plan to make a show of announcing candidates as they cycle through interviews.

— It probably won’t involve an external recruitment firm, although Baer did not rule out utilizing one if only to assist with logistics. Baer signaled that Sabean and Bochy would have the strongest voices as ownership compiles a list of candidates.

— The process of identifying those candidates, at least on an informal level, already has begun.

“We have a pretty good take through our networks (for) some of the good candidates,” Baer said. “Brian and I have talked a lot. Talked to Boch. He knows a lot of people in the game. It’s just the preparation to kind of put together a grid and then go from there.”

----------

"After so many years operating with Sabean’s group, Baer is said to be eager to bring in a wide number of candidates that represent a range of backgrounds and perspectives. Yet industry sources also cautioned that the Giants might be better served to concentrate their efforts on a very short list of preferred candidates, since several of the hottest upwardly mobile executives in the game — Milwaukee’s David Stearns, for example — might be reticent to go through a process that would be akin to throwing their hat in the ring.

Another industry source suggested that Baer has viewed the game through Sabean’s scouting-tinged prism for so many years, it’s possible that the candidates who resonate most strongly with him might value what the current department already values.

Baer, asked to expand on what he meant by identifying a “next-gen” GM, said the most important criteria is “a great baseball mind.”

And Sabean, asked how he would define a “great baseball mind,” sketched out a front office not altogether different from the longstanding group that put together three World Series winners from 2010 to 2014.

“Well, I don’t know if Larry can find it in one person,” Sabean said. “If you’re asking me personally, it would be the combination of my skill set and maybe (former GM) Bobby Evans’ skill set. So it’s somebody who’s strong on both sides of the house and has been able to matriculate while learning from both sides."

---------

"Would the approach to Madison Bumgarner — trade him, hold him or extend him? — be a key question to ask in any interview?

Baer said no. Sabean said yes.

“It would certainly be heavy in the equation, and I’m sure that will come up in the interview process,” Sabean said.

“But I don’t think it’s a criteria, if a guy or gal says one thing or another on Bumgarner,” Baer hastily added. “You know, I’m sure there will be concepts and themes and approaches to take and that would be factored into the whole short, mid and long term.”

---------

(okay this is me now)

Basically my fear that Baer needs someone LIKE Sabean in the room rings true, but as is the fear that Sabean is going to influence Baer in a specific direction. Sounds like at this points there's a lot of confusion and miscommunication

Sounds more like what I was concerned about and less like what was conveyed in that interview that cal heard. Seems like a lot of double talk. I'm thinking that there won't be much changes, at least ones that are positive, but I'll keep an open mind through the process. Maybe they surprise in a good way.

 

[SFGRTB]

Sounds more like what I was concerned about and less like what was conveyed in that interview that cal heard. Seems like a lot of double talk. I'm thinking that there won't be much changes, at least ones that are positive, but I'll keep an open mind through the process. Maybe they surprise in a good way.

FWIW, Kiley McDaniel on Fangraphs, who is a former executive, is well plugged in and has been reliable in the past, said that Matt Arnold of Milwaukee and Mike Elias of Houston are names he's seen pop up. Both guys are, in his eyes, near the top of his list for available GM candidates

 

[calsnowskier]

Sounds more like what I was concerned about and less like what was conveyed in that interview that cal heard. Seems like a lot of double talk. I'm thinking that there won't be much changes, at least ones that are positive, but I'll keep an open mind through the process. Maybe they surprise in a good way.

Has anyone else heard the interview? It was an eye opening interview, but I don’t want to be the only one who vouches for the tenor of it...

It seemed news-worthy when I heard it, but the fact that there haven’t even been any tweets about it almost makes me wonder if I dreamt the whole thing...

 

[LHG]

Has anyone else heard the interview? It was an eye opening interview, but I don’t want to be the only one who vouches for the tenor of it...

It seemed news-worthy when I heard it, but the fact that there haven’t even been any tweets about it almost makes me wonder if I dreamt the whole thing...

Here's a link to what I think is the interview you are referring to - Tolbert & Lund
A few notes from listening:
Just listened to it, interesting to hear him say that his choice was going forward with Evans.
Some of what he said was echoed by Baer in the recent article.
Sabean also seemed to think that the organization is in better shape than what outsiders see. Isn't that the thought process they had after 2017?
He did show a disdain for all the outfield prospects from AAA around the 9 minute mark.

I'm not sure I'd interpret the interview quite like you did. I think Sabean didn't want to speak for management and was just trying to hold his cards close to his vest regarding information.

 

[SF11704]

IMHO there is a very big difference between a team's 'philosophy' and a management 'culture. I actually think it is the same components that you see in the business world. The 'philosophy' is what they sell to the employees, clients, and in our case .... the fans. They tell you what they think you most likely want to hear. On the other side of the coin is the actual 'culture' that is used to implement the philosophy. This only works if both the philosophy and the culture are actually in agreement. Because management 'tells' you something doesn't really mean they intend to do that. It's very easy to sell the idea that we will develop our youth and build for tomorrow ... but ... when in fact you continue to play the vets and keep the youth on the bench ... because you think your overall objective is to 'win games' ... the culture doesn't support the philosophy. Last year we were told that they were going to take a much more analytical approach with our pitching. They were going to use the numbers to make decisions. I don't believe that Bochy ever looked at any analytical data when making pitching changes. He typically goes with his gut feeling. Again ... a mismatch. As a fan this has been a very tough 2 1/2 years of baseball. I feel that management's culture has been centered around trying to patch the team together and hope to get lightening in a bottle. Most of the FAs that we signed were 3 years or more past their prime. Once great players, they were now on the other side of the curve. For me personally, it's a little sad when most of my baseball energy is now channeled into the Doyers, hoping for an epic fail!
Not sure what our plans for 2019 are .... but deep down inside I just don't want another repeat of 2018. I don't want to see another 'patch' job. I could tolerate a 90 loss season if I truly believed that they were restructuring, rebuilding, evaluating youth etc. Something that was preparing us for a better tomorrow.

 

[stanford the manford]

..... I could tolerate a 90 loss season if I truly believed that they were restructuring, rebuilding, evaluating youth etc. Something that was preparing us for a better tomorrow.

yep... been saying the same thing for 2yrs now. i'd prefer it to happen from the top down- new fo, new coaching, etc. so we'll go in a constant direction and not re-direct with the inevitable bochy, sabean retirements