Game of Thrones

[ill]

I think, in general it's a couple of things (and this isn't limited to this forum). You have people who were into the books and liked that the show stayed close to the source material for 4-5 seasons. No source material now and they are heading to a conclusion so the pace and attention to detail changes and that can be difficult to accept.

Then you have the haters who will find anything to be pissed at. Annoying but it happens. The haters annoyed me the last couple of seasons on TWD, but they were kinda right. That one has really gone downhill. I disagree here because some of the complaints have always been a part of this series. For example, the time travel complaint. Yeah Euron was everywhere early in the season and Dani had to catch a warp speed raven to save everyone this week, but it's not unusual for the series. Tywin coming out of nowhere into Blackwater and hitting the throne room right as Cersi was going to kill herself and Tommen didn't catch a second of flack. Littlefinger going wherever it advanced the plot early on didn't raise an eyebrow. The previews next week show the Unsullied marched from Casterly Rock to Kings Landing without a fight. The Lannister crushed other southern armies and after seeing the dragons aren't doing shit right now, so it's plausible. But people will gripe because in previous seasons there would have been a scene where Varys and Tyrion met in a brothel and discussed their troop movements with a pretty sweet lesbian scene in the background.

As a guy who got into this fairly late I say let the haters hate.

I still love GoT and will watch it to the end, but I have always been that way where when the logic doesn't make sense, I start to get bothered by it. It is sloppy writing and that is all there is to it. They were given a high level overview of what the end game is and it is up to them to get them there in the 2 remaining seasons. At this point, they are scrambling to close holes in the plot and wrap up characters they have no need for.

I am well aware that the world GRRM built is immense and D&D might have gotten too involved with characters they thought were going somewhere only to blow them up in the Sept, but again, it is sloppy writing because they were told "hey, you have 2 seasons to get this shit under control and finish it."

 

[night]

Please tell me I didn't miss something.

Who did the bear kill? Who was the guy who fell off of the rock and was consumed by white walkers? Can the white walkers control animal white walkers? If not how did they become white walkers to begin with?

 

[ill]

Please tell me I didn't miss something.

Who did the bear kill? Who was the guy who fell off of the rock and was consumed by white walkers? Can the white walkers control animal white walkers? If not how did they become white walkers to begin with?

there were a couple no name wildlings who gave their lives to the cause beyond the wall. Jon doesn't mourn for them though. He mourns for the loss of a dragon. Those men who bravely gave their lives left families behind. They were also son's of someone. I hope they have the foresight to burn the bodies.

I don't know how animals become wights. I guess they have to be physically touched by the Night King, like the dragon? Are bears just naturally bigger beyond the wall?

I did jump when the bear attacked. That was pretty good.

 

[Sparhawk]

Please tell me I didn't miss something.

Who did the bear kill? Who was the guy who fell off of the rock and was consumed by white walkers? Can the white walkers control animal white walkers? If not how did they become white walkers to begin with?

Wildling red shirts.

It is now obvious that certain re-animated figures are 'tied'/'bound' to a white walker if they are under their control. Jon sliced through a white walker and lots of re-animated skellies (wights) dropped. So, white walkers can exert some kind of control over these things. However, I would not call all of the reanimated beings 'white walkers'.

The Night's King has reanimated humans, giants, a polar bear, horses, and now a dragon.
My guess is that anything dead can be brought back that has not been burned.
Maybe even decapitated.

White walkers are created when an existing white walker touches a finger to a newborn baby humans head. I guess it has to be male. Which begs the many questions that I now have..... do white walkers go through puberty? Can they get acne? Does it take years for them to grow to full height? Or days?

Is it me or does the new Night's King actor have a big nose and is starting to look a lot like Bran....hmmmmmm.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

yet they have time to tell Gentry to leave his war hammer. They made a big deal out of that...

However, that wasn't equipped with dragonglass, right?

I thought that was to avoid slowing him down

 

[Godstree]

here's an idea

get off your fucking high horse

I would get behind anything GoT throws at me before I would believe this would happen.

 

[ill]

I thought that was to avoid slowing him down

yes, that was the reason, but it was such a dramatic scene with Gentry wrestling with the idea. I guess they wanted to be able to explain later whatever happened to his warhammer? Weird since this show has been running on a lot of assumptions lately. Shit, did they ever show 2 dragons together after the Night King took one down? Which dragon got killed? Rhaegal or Viserion?

 

[Gman]

Why is that plan ridiculous? You can't leave a capable commander even with smaller numbers in your rear and march off to fight on another front. C'mon.

Why would Cersei be interested? Self interest. She can't win. Dany can march and burn King's Landing any time she wants to. She's offering a truce in the 'game, so they can agree to fight the grumpkins and snarks. Even if Cersei thinks they're full of shit, she STILL takes the meeting and the offer, because she stays at least for the time-being ON THE GAME BOARD. Which is EXACTLY what she said in the end scene with her and Jamie.

My point is that Cersei is totally untrustworthy and dishonorable.... and everyone knows it by this point. Her destruction of the High Church should have underscored this fact.

So even if Cersei were shown proof of the undead... why would any of her enemies trust her to lay the Game of Thrones aside and "team up" in any way, shape or form? She is still highly likely to backstab at the first opportunity.

So why concoct a plan to convince Cersei?... especially one that's so obviously dangerous and lacks any other benefit?

Makes no sense. Yet the plan was concocted and everyone immediately seemed to agree with it.

Why is the RANGER Benjen Stark riding in to save the day? Couldn't just be that he was just trailing the Night's King? Nah. Wouldn't be that simple, we've got to start at the conclusion that these show runners who've crafted one of the best shows on TV, have just suddenly lost their grip, and can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

IMO, the writers should then have taken a moment to show Benjen Stark trailing and stalking the undead army. Maybe as an opener to an earlier episode or something.

Instead... he just pops up out of the blue... because someone or something had to save the golden boy Jon...

... maybe next episode some Children of the Forest just rush in out of left field to do a similar deed. Why not?

So far, I've heard reasonable critiques that the timelines don't match up. Yep, guilty as sin on that one. <shrug> Gotta' move the story along.

Yep, timing issues have been atrocious lately. This show has a pretty knowledgeable fan base... they know the geography of Westeros doesn't really permit the license that the writers have taken on this front.

Btw, is that YOU G-man? How's the career and family going?

Yep, it's me.

Nice to see you around these parts, chf. I don't usually frequent this entertainment forum... so I've probably just missed you here. I hope all is well for you.

Job and family are great. Teaching at a great school... 3 kids are happy and healthy and pinching each other and pulling each others hair at every opportunity.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

yes, that was the reason, but it was such a dramatic scene with Gentry wrestling with the idea. I guess they wanted to be able to explain later whatever happened to his warhammer? Weird since this show has been running on a lot of assumptions lately. Shit, did they ever show 2 dragons together after the Night King took one down? Which dragon got killed? Rhaegal or Viserion?

It is amazing how fast it is all moving.....When Gentry was sent back to notify Danny, never in a million years did I think she would be coming to save them in THAT episode, that to me displayed just how fast things are moving.......On a sidenote, i hear their are feminist groups in an uproar over how Danny is looking so weak when in the presence of Jon cause she is obviously falling in love with him.....LOL...Women

 

[Payton]

IMO, the writers should then have taken a moment to show Benjen Stark trailing and stalking the undead army. Maybe as an opener to an earlier episode or something.

Instead... he just pops up out of the blue... because someone or something had to save the golden boy Jon...

This is it in a nutshell with most of the writing issues... A simple little tweak to just make it make some sense.

Like nobody thought, you know, instead of chains, maybe some form of levitation, or (as someone previously suggested) or the Night King dives into the water and after some bubbling he emerges and a few seconds later the dragon with blue eyes' head slowly emerges from the water.... I mean NOBODY among the writers thought, "Where did they get all those industrial strength chains?

 

[ill]

It is amazing how fast it is all moving.....When Gentry was sent back to notify Danny, never in a million years did I think she would be coming to save them in THAT episode, that to me displayed just how fast things are moving.......On a sidenote, i hear their are feminist groups in an uproar over how Danny is looking so weak when in the presence of Jon cause she is obviously falling in love with him.....LOL...Women

do they drop the bomb on Jon who his parents are in the next episode? So far I don't think they have fully put the puzzle together. Gilly has part and Sam decided to ignore it when she talked about it. Bran has another part. They were talking about how Jon doesn't look like Ned in the last episode. It has to be soon, right?

 

[ill]

This is it in a nutshell with most of the writing issues... A simple little tweak to just make it make some sense.

Like nobody thought, you know, instead of chains, maybe some form of levitation, or (as someone previously suggested) or the Night King dives into the water and after some bubbling he emerges and a few seconds later the dragon with blue eyes' head slowly emerges from the water.... I mean NOBODY among the writers thought, "Where did they get all those industrial strength chains?

I also have to question if you can organize wights like that to pull a chain. I kind of imagine they can walk and fight...that's about it.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

do they drop the bomb on Jon who his parents are in the next episode? So far I don't think they have fully put the puzzle together. Gilly has part and Sam decided to ignore it when she talked about it. Bran has another part. They were talking about how Jon doesn't look like Ned in the last episode. It has to be soon, right?

Its coming, I dont know how it will fit into the final episode.....So many different ways it could go in the Finale.....It appears most of the focus will be on the big meeting at Kings Landing, so do we have to wait till next season for the Arya and Sansa feud to continue? Does Bran play any role next week? Hard to determine how much they could fit into an hour next week

 

[ill]

Its coming, I dont know how it will fit into the final episode.....So many different ways it could go in the Finale.....It appears most of the focus will be on the big meeting at Kings Landing, so do we have to wait till next season for the Arya and Sansa feud to continue? Does Bran play any role next week? Hard to determine how much they could fit into an hour next week

since my concept of time on this show is all fucked up, I can't help but think "what has Bran been doing for the weeks or days or however long it has been since they checked in on him? What ever happened to Euron and Yara? Is the Dorne chick dead yet? I would imagine she is by now...

 

[chf]

Hes got a co-exec producer credit, hes done little more than outiline where the story goes. Its not a job he goes to. He takes calls from other exec producers. Writing dialog is not the same.

Heh. Yeah, in these digital days, reading a few pages of script, via email is like training to be a faceless man.

 

[chf]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.avclub.com/amp/217269

Heh.

Yep, George follows his own word on concentrating on the books!

From your damn article:

When I say, “my plate is full,” I don’t just mean with Winds. I am still editing the latest Wild Cards volume, High Stakes. I have an overall deal with HBO, and three new television concepts in various stages of development, with a variety of collaborators and partners. I am consulting on a couple of videogames. There’s the Wild Cards movie at Universal, where I’m a producer. And I’ve recently formed a new production company to make low budget short films based on a trio of classic short stories by... well, no, not yet, that would be telling. Premature telling.

So let's review, he's not writing an ENTIRE script this year (never said he was), I said he has oversight of the scripts. Thus my sentence, 'do it again.'

And AGAIN, the writers are working from notes of what's going to happen penned by? Oh yeah, that GRRM guy.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

since my concept of time on this show is all fucked up, I can't help but think "what has Bran been doing for the weeks or days or however long it has been since they checked in on him? What ever happened to Euron and Yara? Is the Dorne chick dead yet? I would imagine she is by now...

100%, said to the wife last night (just watched it last night), "i cant believe they never re-visited the Dorne chick and her daughter" leaving us to just assume they are dead.....Very sloppy IMO to let that just go away......Same thing on Euron, he was gaining momentum as a key character, and than Boom, just gone, and not sure how he will fit into the Finale, unless he crashes the party at the meeting, which could add a funny dimension

 

[chf]

he doesn't fucking have his hands in the pot as much as you think he does. He "supervises" like the president of my company does with any work I do. That is to say, not at all. He is there for reference, but for the most part, David and Dan are off their leashes at this point.

George R. R. Martin on the One 'Game of Thrones' Change He 'Argued Against'

Heh, did you think I wouldn't read it?

C'mon dude.

I’m a co-executive producer on the show; David and Dan are the showrunners. Right from the first, we knew that they were going to do the lion’s share of the work, but I did wanted to be involved. Initially, I was involved in all the casting — I wasn’t physically present — I was here in Santa Fe. But through the wonders of the internet, I was able to look at all of the actors reading and to write them long letters and to have phone calls where I discussed which actors I like and which actors I didn’t like. And in the early seasons, I wrote one script per season. I would have gladly done more, but there just wasn’t time. I’m still trying to do these books. It takes me about a month to write a script and I didn’t have a month to spare, so I said, I think I’ll sit out season 5. I’ve sat out seasons 6 and 7 too, just trying to concentrate on this book, which as you know is massively late . So in that sense, my involvement in the show has diminished over time, though, I’m still here whenever they want to talk to me, and I’m always glad to weigh in. David and Dan have come to Santa Fe and we’ve discussed many of the ultimate developments, those landmarks that I spoke to at the end of the road that we’re both driving for. So I don’t need to be quite as involved as I was at the beginning.

There's plenty of other parts of that article that totally back up my points in these threads too. How he specifically wrote stuff that in his words 'couldn't be filmed.' How tight he and B+W have been from the start. How comfortable he's been with their steerage to step back.

C'mon.

 

[Superbelt]

Heh.

Yep, George follows his own word on concentrating on the books!

From your damn article:



So let's review, he's not writing an ENTIRE script this year (never said he was), I said he has oversight of the scripts. Thus my sentence, 'do it again.'

And AGAIN, the writers are working from notes of what's going to happen penned by? Oh yeah, that GRRM guy.

He's like my dad and uncle.

They start projects on a whim, and then never finish any of them, with 15 active and partially started/completed projects hanging over their head.

And it becomes utterly overwhelming to work on any projects at all.

He voluntarily put too much on his plate, and he keeps adding more. I know he doesn't OWE us anything. But he should want to see his own opus completed. It looks like the GOT series will be over before he even gets WOW published.

 

[chf]

My point is that Cersei is totally untrustworthy and dishonorable.... and everyone knows it by this point. Her destruction of the High Church should have underscored this fact.

So even if Cersei were shown proof of the undead... why would any of her enemies trust her to lay the Game of Thrones aside and "team up" in any way, shape or form? She is still highly likely to backstab at the first opportunity.

So why concoct a plan to convince Cersei?... especially one that's so obviously dangerous and lacks any other benefit?

Makes no sense. Yet the plan was concocted and everyone immediately seemed to agree with it.

Because the existential threat IS beyond the wall. They know this, and are willing to take desperate measures.

IMO, the writers should then have taken a moment to show Benjen Stark trailing and stalking the undead army. Maybe as an opener to an earlier episode or something.

Instead... he just pops up out of the blue... because someone or something had to save the golden boy Jon...

And AGAIN, it's a TV show, of COURSE someone has to save the golden boy. GRRM can't kill off ALL the protagonists! What point would showing Benjen early make other than to downplay the drama of his rescue?

... maybe next episode some Children of the Forest just rush in out of left field to do a similar deed. Why not?

I get that GRRM now has this antithetical reputation now (red wedding, Ned beheaded etc), but he IS still a storyteller telling a story. What was the difference with Benjen Stark riding out of the forest to save Sansa? It's EXACTLY the same device.

Yep, timing issues have been atrocious lately. This show has a pretty knowledgeable fan base... they know the geography of Westeros doesn't really permit the license that the writers have taken on this front.

How are they going to fix ALL of those issues and still make a watchable TV show?

Yep, it's me.

Nice to see you around these parts, chf. I don't usually frequent this entertainment forum... so I've probably just missed you here. I hope all is well for you.

Job and family are great. Teaching at a great school... 3 kids are happy and healthy and pinching each other and pulling each others hair at every opportunity.

Three! Kudos. Mine just graduated HS. Getting damned old. Yeah, it's here, and Seahawks board, and a few times in General NFL for me. I avoid the cesspool that is the Hoop's NST.