Game #77 Keep the wins coming Sharks v.s Ducks 7pm

[rares]

can someone please explain this no call? I can't watch hockey due to being in Oklahoma

Net was empty. Getzlaf shot and missed the net. Perry got the puck off to the side and shot it towards the net again. Boyle skated by trying to block the shot and slid into the post and dislodged the net. Perry's shot missed the net to the side before it got dislodged but the scumbag referee called it a goal right away and it apparently couldn't be reviewed, etc.

 

[rares]

Looks like I'm the only one who thinks the Sharks played a pretty good game. They forechecked really well, forced a bunch of turnovers, after the 1st period they adjusted well to the Ducks neutral zone pressure, and controlled most of the play from that point on. They just failed to capitalize on their oppertunities. That's how it goes sometimes. Only player I thought had a poor game was Marleau.

Yup, for the first time in like 7 years, I can't agree with you.

They sucked out loud. A million shots from far out with no chance of going in. Yeah, one post early and another nice deflection by Pavs but that was about it. Two legit scoring chances.

 

[abaskin18]

Couture didn't quite look like himself to me. Laboring a bit maybe? Could have just been that I noticed it on the end of a few long shifts.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Yup, for the first time in like 7 years, I can't agree with you.

They sucked out loud. A million shots from far out with no chance of going in. Yeah, one post early and another nice deflection by Pavs but that was about it. Two legit scoring chances.

The Galiardi breakaway, Hiller had to make two tough saves on deflections by Moore in front, Havlat had a deflection late that was a tough save, Thornton's two cross crease passes on the PP, Wingels deflection. The Sharks had quite a few oppertunities and for most of the game outworked the Ducks.

 

[sjrules99]

Take a look at the sharks' losses over the last month plus...

going back in time, here is the +/- of the bottom 6 in every loss:
3/28 ANA: -2
3/20 LA: -1
3/19 ANA: -2
3/13 CGY: -2
3/10 PHO: -2
3/8 DAL: -1
3/6 EDM: -1
3/3 STL: +1 (WOW!!!!)
3/1 BUF : EV (though wingels was -1 playing with jumbo)
2/26 MIN: -1 (winchester-mcginn-ferriero was the line)
2/25 NAS: -3
2/21 CLB: -2
2/19 DET: -1
2/17 CAR: -1

Looking at those 14 losses, the bottom six was -18. (or -54 total for the whichever 6 players were on the bottom lines). That includes only even strength.

In those games, the sharks were outscored 48-25. Excluding special teams, it's 41-21. that means the sharks were -20 at even strength over those games. If the bottom 6 was -18, the top 6 was -2. That is what I am talking about . If the bottom six was "only" -10 over those games, the sharks would likely have 3 more wins rights now and be comfortably in the 3rd spot.

The statistics bare out exactly what I have said. If you factor in the wins since the tampa game, the sharks' top 6 is easily plus over the last 22 games.

Everything points in one simple direction. I apologize that I use objective statistics to back my opinion, but the numbers just don't lie.

 

[filosofy29]

Take a look at the sharks' losses over the last month plus...

going back in time, here is the +/- of the bottom 6 in every loss:
3/28 ANA: -2
3/20 LA: -1
3/19 ANA: -2
3/13 CGY: -2
3/10 PHO: -2
3/8 DAL: -1
3/6 EDM: -1
3/3 STL: +1 (WOW!!!!)
3/1 BUF : EV (though wingels was -1 playing with jumbo)
2/26 MIN: -1 (winchester-mcginn-ferriero was the line)
2/25 NAS: -3
2/21 CLB: -2
2/19 DET: -1
2/17 CAR: -1

Looking at those 14 losses, the bottom six was -18. (or -54 total for the whichever 6 players were on the bottom lines). That includes only even strength.

In those games, the sharks were outscored 48-25. Excluding special teams, it's 41-21. that means the sharks were -20 at even strength over those games. If the bottom 6 was -18, the top 6 was -2. That is what I am talking about . If the bottom six was "only" -10 over those games, the sharks would likely have 3 more wins rights now and be comfortably in the 3rd spot.

The statistics bare out exactly what I have said. If you factor in the wins since the tampa game, the sharks' top 6 is easily plus over the last 22 games.

Everything points in one simple direction. I apologize that I use objective statistics to back my opinion, but the numbers just don't lie.

Again. Who has called you a liar? Who has said that the bottom 6 are amazing and have played outstanding? Who are these mysterious posters? Am I one?

Go back and look at the Trade deadline thread. I can't edit my posts. When the Sharks traded for Moore I didn't post a single thing. I posted "I would have liked Vermette".

The only bottom 6 player I like is Wingels. I liked the Zus signing, but it hasn't worked out like I thought. I was excited about Galiardi, but it hasn't worked out like I thought. You happy?

 

[naes666]

Looks like I'm the only one who thinks the Sharks played a pretty good game. They forechecked really well, forced a bunch of turnovers, after the 1st period they adjusted well to the Ducks neutral zone pressure, and controlled most of the play from that point on. They just failed to capitalize on their oppertunities. That's how it goes sometimes. Only player I thought had a poor game was Marleau.

if they do make it into the playoffs, how can get they get it together to survive? not feeling very confident for their chances.

seems that too many games are "that's how it goes sometimes" or as Jim Thorton says "That's sports"...when does that no longer become an option or are they really just that unlucky this year?

have teams adjusted to them, improved and this Sharks team is just not as good as the rest of the competition (except of course on paper)?

my gut feeling is that i am not watching too many great games this year, a lot of pretty good or average games instead, seems like for them to find goals they are fighting an uphill battle. am i the only person that feels this way?

the last game against Colorado was the Sharks we know and love, not because they scored with ease but they seemed to have confidence and their mojo working, what can the coach or the team do to maintain that kind of spirit? i don't think brushing off losses as that's sports or whatever is working...i think they gotta get motivated, hungry and maybe even angry.

seems like they show up in Anaheim and they cannot handle the pressure, same with LA and Phx...why is that?

 

[sjrules99]

Looks like I'm the only one who thinks the Sharks played a pretty good game. They forechecked really well, forced a bunch of turnovers, after the 1st period they adjusted well to the Ducks neutral zone pressure, and controlled most of the play from that point on. They just failed to capitalize on their oppertunities. That's how it goes sometimes. Only player I thought had a poor game was Marleau.

I thought the sharks' top 6 had a very solid game. Getz/perry were scoreless. Jumbo was outstanding and if it weren't for highway robbery on pavs, the top 6 might have been +2. Unfortunately a couple breakdowns by the bottom 6 forwards cost the sharks the game. If they go even, the sharks win 1-0.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

if they do make it into the playoffs, how can get they get it together to survive? not feeling very confident for their chances.

seems that too many games are "that's how it goes sometimes" or as Jim Thorton says "That's sports"...when does that no longer become an option or are they really just that unlucky this year?

have teams adjusted to them, improved and this Sharks team is just not as good as the rest of the competition (except of course on paper)?

my gut feeling is that i am not watching too many great games this year, a lot of pretty good or average games instead, seems like for them to find goals they are fighting an uphill battle. am i the only person that feels this way?

the last game against Colorado was the Sharks we know and love, not because they scored with ease but they seemed to have confidence and their mojo working, what can the coach or the team do to maintain that kind of spirit? i don't think brushing off losses as that's sports or whatever is working...i think they gotta get motivated, hungry and maybe even angry.

seems like they show up in Anaheim and they cannot handle the pressure, same with LA and Phx...why is that?

I don't recall too many losses this year in which I felt the Sharks outplayed their opponent. Four, maybe five, all year. Joe may write off a most of the losses in that fassion but I don't. Most of the losses this year can be pinned on poor effort from the top guys as well as the bottom six not capitalizing as much as they should on their oppertunities. Other factors like poor PK and PP as well as quetionable coaching decissions factor in too. Yes, I'd prefer to see the Sharks win but I have no problem with a loss like this because a large majority of the team showed solid effort and effective play the entire game.

 

[sjrules99]

Again. Who has called you a liar? Who has said that the bottom 6 are amazing and have played outstanding? Who are these mysterious posters? Am I one?

Go back and look at the Trade deadline thread. I can't edit my posts. When the Sharks traded for Moore I didn't post a single thing. I posted "I would have liked Vermette".

Not directed at you. Directly at the following posters:

1. Anyone who thinks the whole team has sucked thoughout this stretch. The whole team has not sucked. Not at all. The top 6 have been plus. the bottom six have sucked, so its not fair to blame jumbo, pavs, or even patty (despite his struggles) for the sharks' failures over the past month and change.

2. Anyone who thinks the sharks third line is even reasonable. I know several people who posted that all they need is more time to bond. Bullshit. They suck and that's all there is to it. I would say 18 games is sufficient to pay a preliminary judgment on Moore. Galiardi is quickly joining him, though its harder to tell in just 9 games, epscailly with his limited ice and injuries. He's also only -2. Crappy, but nowhere near moore's numbers.

3. Anyone who blames nemo. nemo hasnt been all that good, no question. But he has also been quite respectable when forced to keep opponents to 1 or 0 to win. With the sharks, as a team, scoring just 4+ once over the last 2 months, it's impossible to look at nemo as a cause. he has held opponents to 2 or less 10 of those 22 games, and 3 or less in 16 of those 22 games. That's not very bad goaltending.

4. Anyone who blames TMac. Now, one could argue, as I also have, that he is partially responsible for getting so little from his bottom 6. However, I think it's a matter of having very very little to work with. It's not like any of moore, winnik, mitchell, desi, wingels, ferriero, or the like have ever scored in the past really. Moore had 4 goals on the season when he came, winnik had 5, mitchell's career high is 10, ferriero is AHL fodder pretty much, wingels is a young rook, etc. None of the bottom six has proven they can score with any semblance of regularity, so it's not really his fault that they suck.

That's who I targeted these posts to.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I thought the sharks' top 6 had a very solid game. Getz/perry were scoreless. Jumbo was outstanding and if it weren't for highway robbery on pavs, the top 6 might have been +2. Unfortunately a couple breakdowns by the bottom 6 forwards cost the sharks the game. If they go even, the sharks win 1-0.

I thought Pavelski and Thornton both played a whale of a game. Clowe was really good as well. Couture and Havlat had an off game but I don't think they were that bad. Marleau was the only absent one tonight IMO. I really didn't have a problem with anyone in the bottom six. I thought they forechecked really well and brought a lot of energy to the game. Sucks that they gave up the two goals but I also thought they did a good job of recapturing the momentum with the pressure they were bringing.

The Ducks 1st goal was a missed assignment by Galiardi and I thought Desjardins should have tied up Selanne on the 2nd goal. But that 2nd goal was also a heck of a tip and sometimes you just have to say it was a great play.

 

[filosofy29]

Not directed at you. Directly at the following posters:

1. Anyone who thinks the whole team has sucked thoughout this stretch. The whole team has not sucked. Not at all. The top 6 have been plus. the bottom six have sucked, so its not fair to blame jumbo, pavs, or even patty (despite his struggles) for the sharks' failures over the past month and change.

All 4 Lines have been inconsistent throughout the suckage. Some lines worse than others. I think the inconsistency factor can be directly blamed on leadership (both on and off ice).

2. Anyone who thinks the sharks third line is even reasonable. I know several people who posted that all they need is more time to bond. Bullshit. They suck and that's all there is to it. I would say 18 games is sufficient to pay a preliminary judgment on Moore. Galiardi is quickly joining him, though its harder to tell in just 9 games, epscailly with his limited ice and injuries. He's also only -2. Crappy, but nowhere near moore's numbers.

Who is this?

3. Anyone who blames nemo. nemo hasnt been all that good, no question. But he has also been quite respectable when forced to keep opponents to 1 or 0 to win. With the sharks, as a team, scoring just 4+ once over the last 2 months, it's impossible to look at nemo as a cause. he has held opponents to 2 or less 10 of those 22 games, and 3 or less in 16 of those 22 games. That's not very bad goaltending.

Nemo has played well at times and horrible at times. Just like the rest of the Sharks team. His rebound control (while it has never been a strong point) has been beyond bad this entire year. He hasn't looked as calm and collected as he did last year. This could be a direct effect of the players in front of him having up and down years as well though.

4. Anyone who blames TMac. Now, one could argue, as I also have, that he is partially responsible for getting so little from his bottom 6. However, I think it's a matter of having very very little to work with. It's not like any of moore, winnik, mitchell, desi, wingels, ferriero, or the like have ever scored in the past really. Moore had 4 goals on the season when he came, winnik had 5, mitchell's career high is 10, ferriero is AHL fodder pretty much, wingels is a young rook, etc. None of the bottom six has proven they can score with any semblance of regularity, so it's not really his fault that they suck.

You have blamed TMac all the time over the past few years. You've been one of his main detractors.

That's who I targeted these posts to.

Why don't you try confronting the posters personally who you're mad at? If it's me, let me have it directly. If it's somebody else, call them out. That's part of what a message board is for. I used to enjoy talking hockey with you.....now I just know that every single post is going to be about the bottom 6 forwards.

 

[sjrules99]

I thought Pavelski and Thornton both played a whale of a game. Clowe was really good as well. Couture and Havlat had an off game but I don't think they were that bad. Marleau was the only absent one tonight IMO. I really didn't have a problem with anyone in the bottom six. I thought they forechecked really well and brought a lot of energy to the game. Sucks that they gave up the two goals but I also thought they did a good job of recapturing the momentum with the pressure they were bringing.

The Ducks 1st goal was a missed assignment by Galiardi and I thought Desjardins should have tied up Selanne on the 2nd goal. But that 2nd goal was also a heck of a tip and sometimes you just have to say it was a great play.

That's exactly the key. Missed assignments by bottom 6 forwards. Simply put, that cannot happen if the sharks want to win with any regularity. No doubt both were good plays, one by smith-pelly to get the pass right on the tape and selanne (shocker!) on the tip. However, if galiardi defends well or if desi is on his man, then neither goal happens. Neither was just bad luck, a bad bounce, or weak on nemo. Both were blown coverage by bottom 6 forwards.

Also, I didnt think much of them offensively. Moore had a couple chances, but after 18 games and at this point in the season, chances just dont cut it. They have to win. They have to score. They cannot get scored on. Period.

 

[abaskin18]

Other fun facts about the last 14 losses:

- 6-35 on the PP
- 3.57 GAA (Does not include the two SOL additions)

 

[Cmon_WTF]

That's exactly the key. Missed assignments by bottom 6 forwards. Simply put, that cannot happen if the sharks want to win with any regularity. No doubt both were good plays, one by smith-pelly to get the pass right on the tape and selanne (shocker!) on the tip. However, if galiardi defends well or if desi is on his man, then neither goal happens. Neither was just bad luck, a bad bounce, or weak on nemo. Both were blown coverage by bottom 6 forwards.

Also, I didnt think much of them offensively. Moore had a couple chances, but after 18 games and at this point in the season, chances just dont cut it. They have to win. They have to score. They cannot get scored on. Period.

There is no guarantee of that though. Both were strong plays by the Ducks and even though the Sharks could have defended it better doesn't mean they wouldn't have happened.

 

[filosofy29]

There is no guarantee of that though. Both were strong plays by the Ducks and even though the Sharks could have defended it better doesn't mean they wouldn't have happened.

Galiardi and Boyle (if memory serves me correctly) were pretty weak on the Ryan goal. That one for sure should have been stopped in my humble opinion.....even though it was a nice pass by Smith-Pelly.

I do 100% agree with you on the 2nd one by Selanne. I was a little dumbfounded about how far away Desi was from Teemu, but even if he was closer, Teemu still easily could have gotten a stick on the puck. It just would have been nicer if Desi gave him something to think/worry about. Sometimes you just have to tip your hat on deflections. Other than that, I thought Line 4 had a decent (not good, but decent) game.

 

[sjrules99]

Why don't you try confronting the posters personally who you're mad at? If it's me, let me have it directly. If it's somebody else, call them out. That's part of what a message board is for. I used to enjoy talking hockey with you.....now I just know that every single post is going to be about the bottom 6 forwards.

fine, I will do so in the future. The problem is that the reason I think other posters are mistaken most of time for any of the above 4 explanations of failure is for the same reason, the bottom 6. As such, I know it's repetitive and I know it's kinda annoying, but it's just true, game after game after game after game. The one game the 3rd line played well, vs. colorado, I said so. I also pointed it out with winnik's super key contributions to the boston and phoenix wins. Without his goals, the sharks likely grab 1, not 4 points. The bottom six has been the deciding factor in nearly every game because the top six has consistently played pretty solid games.

In fact, the bottom six has been just standard even, leaving it only to the top 6 to decide the game, in probably only 7 or 8 games over the last 2 months. When they are plus, the sharks basically win. When they are minus, the sharks basically lose, with very few exceptions.

in fact, I just calculated and the sharks are 7-1 in the last 22 games, when the bottom 6 is Even.

To summarize:

0-12 when minus
8-2 when even or plus.

 

[Mr. Teal]

Marleau: 2 points in the last 5 games.
Thornton: 4 points in 5 games. 0 goals.

You'd think these guys would step it up when something was on the line but they're continuously not having the impact superstar players should.

Their non-leadership is unacceptable.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Marleau: 2 points in the last 5 games.
Thornton: 4 points in 5 games. 0 goals.

You'd think these guys would step it up when something was on the line but they're continuously not having the impact superstar players should.

Their non-leadership is unacceptable.

Do you really expect Thornton to step up?

25 goals for the Finnish Flash. He continues to AMAZE.

 

[sjrules99]

Other fun facts about the last 14 losses:

- 6-35 on the PP
- 3.57 GAA (Does not include the two SOL additions)

6-35 on the PP is 17%. That's about the league average and really one goal from being 20%, which would be really strong, especially in losses. As such, that is a statistically insignificant number.

3.57 GAA may be incorrect, where did you find it. 48 goals against in 14 games would be 3.42 GAA, but that does not include all the OT time, 14:20 to be exact, thoguh I suppose there was some pulled goalie time too, so since I dont feel like calculating, Ill call it a wash. However, there was one ENG, so that's actually 47 goals in roughly 14 games or 3.35 GAA. Clearly, 3.35 GAA is not very good, but it's also not THAT bad in all loses. If a goalie had a 3.35 GAA, you would figure they would still win 20-30% of their games, not zero. if they go 3-9 instead of 0-12, the sharks are easily in 3rd right now, and nearly clinched in the PO's.