Four Seasons Loco Coffee and Total Landscaping Talk

[jstewismybastardson]

The grift will live on

 

[puckhead]

The grift will live on

Hopefully a different government department will oversee his security.
With far fewer travel opportunities.

Like maybe 2 hours per day in the yard. Rest of the time he can be kept nice and safe in a cell

 

[thedddd]

F**K RIP ALex Trebeck

 

[dare2be]

Hopefully a different government department will oversee his security.
With far fewer travel opportunities.

Like maybe 2 hours per day in the yard. Rest of the time he can be kept nice and safe in a cell

I consider that well-spent taxpayer money.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Hopefully a different government department will oversee his security.
With far fewer travel opportunities.

Like maybe 2 hours per day in the yard. Rest of the time he can be kept nice and safe in a cell

Since this goose is cooked, I think it’s a good time to talk about the possibility of trying Donald Trump.

Say prosecutors do eventually find something they can actually get him in a defendants box on. The media circus will be outrageous for any former US President, let alone this one.

Then the task of finding 12 imperial jurors come up. Say it’s in Manhattan, can you find 18 people who 1) aren’t Trump supporters and 2) aren’t rabidly anti-Trump?

Then even with an impartial jury there’s the risk that he beats the case. Imagine the GLOATING. Imagine how reinvigorated he might feel. Imagine how emboldened he might be to run again in 2024 if he’s got a nice court “TOTAL VINDICATION” in his pocket to sell his supporters to combine with the “I only lost because Covid & corrupt Dems” line he’ll be selling to explain this loss. He’ll only be one year older in 2024 than Biden is right now.

To me, if you want to be rid of this forever, let him go into the sunset and be done with it. Let the media attention be focused on the new administration. Don’t fall into a trap.

 

[Darkstone42]

Since this goose is cooked, I think it’s a good time to talk about the possibility of trying Donald Trump.

Say prosecutors do eventually find something they can actually get him in a defendants box on. The media circus will be outrageous for any former US President, let alone this one.

Then the task of finding 12 imperial jurors come up. Say it’s in Manhattan, can you find 18 people who 1) aren’t Trump supporters and 2) aren’t rabidly anti-Trump?

Then even with an impartial jury there’s the risk that he beats the case. Imagine the GLOATING. Imagine how reinvigorated he might feel. Imagine how emboldened he might be to run again in 2024 if he’s got a nice court “TOTAL VINDICATION” in his pocket to sell his supporters to combine with the “I only lost because Covid & corrupt Dems” line he’ll be selling to explain this loss. He’ll only be one year older in 2024 than Biden is right now.

To me, if you want to be rid of this forever, let him go into the sunset and be done with it. Let the media attention be focused on the new administration. Don’t fall into a trap.

Disagree. You take your time and do it right, but you absolutely have to prosecute his crimes. Failing to do so signals to every other rich, powerful person that, if they run for president and win it, no matter what cheating they do to get there, and no matter what atrocities they commit in office, they will only reap the benefits of their term without facing any tangible consequence.

Trump doesn't deserve to ride into the sunset. He's a criminal who extorted the American people for his own profit, at their direct expense, and used war crimes and human rights violations as core and intentional policy foci during his term. Failing to prosecute Trump demonstrates that we accept corruption as politics as usual, and makes it impossible to hold accountable future presidents who are also guilty of war crimes and human rights violations, but are less broad, open, and obvious about it.

And elected officials are our servants besides. They must, by mandate, act in our best interest, not their own. It would be corruption on Biden's part to prioritize convenient politics over prosecuting the widespread, open, and obvious corruption of Trump. It muddies the political waters moving forward, and makes it impossible for the American people to trust any candidate for public office, on grounds that clearly those in power see no problem with wanton cruelty and open corruption. If it's a political hit to Biden to go after Trump, it's one he's obligated to take. It's his job.

 

[Comeds]

I hope Biden can deliver on his promise of 3-4 more NCIS series.

 

[puckhead]

Since this goose is cooked, I think it’s a good time to talk about the possibility of trying Donald Trump.

Say prosecutors do eventually find something they can actually get him in a defendants box on. The media circus will be outrageous for any former US President, let alone this one.

Then the task of finding 12 imperial jurors come up. Say it’s in Manhattan, can you find 18 people who 1) aren’t Trump supporters and 2) aren’t rabidly anti-Trump?

Then even with an impartial jury there’s the risk that he beats the case. Imagine the GLOATING. Imagine how reinvigorated he might feel. Imagine how emboldened he might be to run again in 2024 if he’s got a nice court “TOTAL VINDICATION” in his pocket to sell his supporters to combine with the “I only lost because Covid & corrupt Dems” line he’ll be selling to explain this loss. He’ll only be one year older in 2024 than Biden is right now.

To me, if you want to be rid of this forever, let him go into the sunset and be done with it. Let the media attention be focused on the new administration. Don’t fall into a trap.

You put him on the stand for 10 minutes, talking about anything at all, you can get enough perjury to put him away for several lifetimes.

But seriously, the bank fraud items should be enough.

 

[dare2be]

You put him on the stand for 10 minutes, talking about anything at all, you can get enough perjury to put him away for several lifetimes.

But seriously, the bank fraud items should be enough.

That's how they got Clinton. They badgered him enough with questions that he ended up purjoring himself over an irrelevant affair.

With Trump, it wouldn't take many questions, if any.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

That's how they got Clinton. They badgered him enough with questions that he ended up purjoring himself over an irrelevant affair.

With Trump, it wouldn't take many questions, if any.

I get that the guy can’t keep his mouth shut but if his lawyers tell him “take the fifth or go to jail” my guess is he’s taking the fifth.

And at no point will the conservative media (and likely sections of the MSM) not paint this as a political lynching.

I just see so much to lose and so little to gain. I understand all the points here but why risk it. You already know at some point there’s going to be “Trump wasn’t all bad” nostalgia in the way there is for W, why potentially accelerate that sentiment while it’s still possible for him to get back in the game?

 

[Darkstone42]

Addendum to my past post: The trend in recent years of avoiding accountability in the apparent name of "civility" is among the most dangerous there is. Civility does not mean excusing bad behavior. It just means not being petty and mean-spirited. When someone does wrong, you call them on it. That's not uncivil, it's a moral imperative. This misplaced "civility" focus allows the rise of demagogues, authoritarians, fascists. It recasts racism and misogyny and all other forms of bigotry as "differences of opinion," which minimizes their destructive consequences for real people. It excuses corruption and faithless governance. It opened the door for Trump--taking the apparent high road at the expense of exposing his lies and meaningfully countering his hateful rhetoric, giving him a credibility he didn't deserve; and it will open the door for another, more competent Trump to cause even more harm.

We've got to make the call to stop excusing this sort of stuff at some point, and the sooner the better.

 

[Darkstone42]

I get that the guy can’t keep his mouth shut but if his lawyers tell him “take the fifth or go to jail” my guess is he’s taking the fifth.

And at no point will the conservative media (and likely sections of the MSM) not paint this as a political lynching.

I just see so much to lose and so little to gain. I understand all the points here but why risk it. You already know at some point there’s going to be “Trump wasn’t all bad” nostalgia in the way there is for W, why potentially accelerate that sentiment while it’s still possible for him to get back in the game?

You do this to prevent the unjustified rehabilitation of his character. You do this to avoid what happened with W and prevent another, worse president in the future. Letting W get away with what he got away with laid the groundwork for Trump. And Reagan and Bush Sr. and the pardoning of Nixon before him. We keep making this mistake, we keep being shown, unequivocally, that it's a mistake. Let's not make it again.

 

[puckhead]

I get that the guy can’t keep his mouth shut but if his lawyers tell him “take the fifth or go to jail” my guess is he’s taking the fifth.

Can't possibly see him taking advice of lawyers on this.
No way he'd ever take the fifth, that's a sign of weakness.

He thinks he is smarter than any lawyer
He thinks he is smarter than any court
And he would only retain lawyers that tell him what he wants to hear anyway


Give him any rope at all, and he Epstiens himself. He just can't help it.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

You do this to prevent the unjustified rehabilitation of his character. You do this to avoid what happened with W and prevent another, worse president in the future. Letting W get away with what he got away with laid the groundwork for Trump. And Reagan and Bush Sr. and the pardoning of Nixon before him. We keep making this mistake, we keep being shown, unequivocally, that it's a mistake. Let's not make it again.

And if he’s found not guilty?

Tell me you honestly believe there’s any financial case where a jury would vote to convict a former US President.

 

[Darkstone42]

Can't possibly see him taking advice of lawyers on this.
No way he'd ever take the fifth, that's a sign of weakness.

He thinks he is smarter than any lawyer
He thinks he is smarter than any court
And he would only retain lawyers that tell him what he wants to hear anyway


Give him any rope at all, and he Epstiens himself. He just can't help it.

Also, look at the lawyers he's stuck with, how ineffectually they've argued on his behalf. Rudy, obviously, but that weirdo from the impeachment hearings, and whoever the hell he's got running the legal challenges against the election results (straight into the ground, from what I've read, thankfully).

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Can't possibly see him taking advice of lawyers on this.
No way he'd ever take the fifth, that's a sign of weakness.

He thinks he is smarter than any lawyer
He thinks he is smarter than any court
And he would only retain lawyers that tell him what he wants to hear anyway


Give him any rope at all, and he Epstiens himself. He just can't help it.

Maybe. But he wouldn’t have to testify in his defence if he doesn’t wish to, correct? He can just say his lawyers presented so good of a defence that he didn’t have to take the stand.

 

[Darkstone42]

And if he’s found not guilty?

Tell me you honestly believe there’s any financial case where a jury would vote to convict a former US President.

He's done so much so transparently, I'm pretty sure at least one charge they'd manage to. But the challenge of making it stick does not exempt the responsibility to at least attempt accountability. You're making your decision on the risk of failure, but the mandate is the question of what is right, and what is right only.

Holding a deeply corrupt, harmful president accountable for his corruption and harm is a moral mandate. It must be attempted. Failure to try is dereliction of duty. Failure to try for fear of political fallout is selfishness and corruption in its own right.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

He's done so much so transparently, I'm pretty sure at least one charge they'd manage to. But the challenge of making it stick does not exempt the responsibility to at least attempt accountability. You're making your decision on the risk of failure, but the mandate is the question of what is right, and what is right only.

Holding a deeply corrupt, harmful president accountable for his corruption and harm is a moral mandate. It must be attempted. Failure to try is dereliction of duty. Failure to try for fear of political fallout is selfishness and corruption in its own right.

Okay but that risk isn’t just that he walks free, it’s that he walks free and becomes a realistic presidential candidate again.

You’re willing to accept that risk and that’s admirable. I personally think it would be best if we never have to hear about him again.

 

[Darkstone42]

Okay but that risk isn’t just that he walks free, it’s that he walks free and becomes a realistic presidential candidate again.

You’re willing to accept that risk and that’s admirable. I personally think it would be best if we never have to hear about him again.

No, we need to remember him, in detail, and be on the guard for the rise of another like him. We need to send a message that we're not going to roll over for his types. We need to try his case, publicly, and expose everything. People need to be bombarded with who and what we elected and let occupy the highest office in the country for four years. We can't just forget him and move on and let him off the hook. We're not going to heal as a nation if we let a man who embodied the movement which hurt so many just get to live his life unperturbed.

Especially since he's likely to continue to use the power of having held the office to continue to extort the American people and enrich himself in one way or another.

And failing to even attempt to prosecute him, by the way, will signal to his base that everything he was accused of were just empty political hits. Failing to prosecute him guarantees the resurgence of his viability as a candidate you fear if we prosecute him and he doesn't get convicted. Prosecuting him when there's no obvious political upside gives the charges credibility, and refusing to for political convenience undermines that.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Shes already got a gig lined up at Trump/OAN