Flyers eyeing Arnott

[mall3013]

Latest from the Buzz. Flyers are eyeing Arnott. It is also interesting that the Flyers are following closely on the Stamkos situation. Wow! If Homer can only make a miracle work.

 

[flyersfan4706]

A friend has been telling me the same thing.

About Arnott and us following Stamkos.

 

[mall3013]

It's true. I'm wondering what Homer has up his sleeve?

 

[flyersfan4706]

****I DONT KNOW WHERE THIS CAME FROM******

Rumors of Bob, Mez, and Simmonds for Stamkos' rights. Yes please.

 

[mall3013]

I get so nervous with the word rights. It's a huge risk giving up these guys just for the rights. Do the Flyers get to talk to Stamkos prior to losing these players to see if he wants to sign with Philly?

 

[wbon22]

OOOH, that is a scary one, and not Arnott. Him I would take a flyer on..no pun. He still has something left in the tank and can be a useful player if not exposed or over worked.

Trading Bob, Mezaros and Simmonds rights for the rights to Stamkos. Intersting....I think there would have to be more in the package, but It is very very interesting.

 

[awaz]

i would love it if they could get arnott.. he was HUGE for the caps last season.. when they needed something done, he did, on a night in and night out basis.. not a big time producer, but he produced when it mattered

i still dont like the idea of trading for stamkos' rights.. you give up bob (1.5), mesz (4), and simmonds (RFA).. the flyers have about 3 mil in space to work with.. if you trade them, you have to replace a top 4 d-man and a back up goalie, which will take 2 mil at a minimum.. 8.5 - 2 = 6.5 mil.. no way stamkos signs for 6.5 mil, you'd have to clear probably another 3 mil in space, because you'd want some wiggle room if he signed for 8-9 mil..

who do you move then? carle? and go with a defense that has lilja in the top 4? i dont think so.. schenn playing in the minors i suppose would be an option, but is that what you really want to do?.. giroux and jvr obviously aren't going anywhere.. just signed jagr and talbot.. cant move timonen or pronger.. maybe you move hartnell? then you have another top-6 forward down..

its just too complex.. i dont see it happening

 

[mall3013]

Did you take off Lappys, Leighton, Shelley, and Zherdevs numbers? Should have more space.

 

[awaz]

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Steven Stamkos ($8.500m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.250m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.800m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Scott Hartnell ($4.200m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.845m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Ty Conklin ($0.900m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,155,595; BONUSES: $3,090,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,144,405

that's actually not bad at all.. that team looks pretty damn good

gotta check where i had my numbers off.. to the cap central thread!

 

[awaz]

Did you take off Lappys, Leighton, Shelley, and Zherdevs numbers? Should have more space.

never calculated it with zherdev.. he's UFA, not sure why his name keeps popping up.. he's no longer a flyer

but ya i took lappy and leighton off.. shelley i had kept on.. problem was walker on the the cap central thread, and that was the number i was thinking about

walker was on that list because all one-way contracts count as of now.. i wanted to make sure we kept an eye on the 10% over the cap situation (allowed in the offseason) in case we went for something big

fixed it now though

 

[banditshcky11]

****I DONT KNOW WHERE THIS CAME FROM******

Rumors of Bob, Mez, and Simmonds for Stamkos' rights. Yes please.

Can we take Mez off add Carle instead he may have slightly higher trade value anyway. Then if we got stamkos try to sign him to an 18 year $135 million contract that's semi-front loaded. That's a cap hit of $7.5 mill a year. He gets paid and we get a decent cap hit, factor in the yearly cap raise and it's pretty win win for everyone.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Can we take Mez off add Carle instead he may have slightly higher trade value anyway. Then if we got stamkos try to sign him to an 18 year $135 million contract that's semi-front loaded. That's a cap hit of $7.5 mill a year. He gets paid and we get a decent cap hit, factor in the yearly cap raise and it's pretty win win for everyone.

You do know the league would never allow that contract right? The Devils tried that crap. They got fined & lost draft picks. I'm not buying the Stamkos stuff until it happens.

Would Arnott have a problem playing on the 3rd or 4th line?

 

[soulxflare]

Can we take Mez off add Carle instead he may have slightly higher trade value anyway. Then if we got stamkos try to sign him to an 18 year $135 million contract that's semi-front loaded. That's a cap hit of $7.5 mill a year. He gets paid and we get a decent cap hit, factor in the yearly cap raise and it's pretty win win for everyone.

Not to be an ass -- but, on what planet, does Carle have more trade value than Meszaros?

Trust me, I'd love to get rid of Matt "Rally Killer" Carle, but I think we'd have to arrest Homer for grand larceny if he pulled that deal off with us keeping Mez.

 

[banditshcky11]

You do know the league would never allow that contract right? The Devils tried that crap. They got fined & lost draft picks. I'm not buying the Stamkos stuff until it happens.

Would Arnott have a problem playing on the 3rd or 4th line?

The legue had a problem with the salary of the last few years violating the cba, not the length or amount of the contract. The devils were penalized for doing some crazy shit where the last few years of his contract were equal to something like 4% of the total value. If the contract is constructed in a way where they follow the guidelines for any year not going under the mandated % the league can not do anything because there has been no violation.


Also I'm not saying Carle is more valuable then Mez I'm merely stating that for a while before the draft and FA that analyst were saying that many teams were looking at Carle and he may be part of any move the flyers made. I also see the lightning possibly being the market for a more openly viewed offensive forward.

 

[banditshcky11]

The flowing is from an article on TSN explaining the kovalchuk contract.

Kovalchuk became an unrestricted free agent on July 1 and has been called the best player to hit the market in the post-work stoppage era. He's reportedly set to earn $95 million over the first 10 years of the contract and only $7 million over the final seven, including a salary of $550,000 per season over the final five years of the deal.
*
The same reports say Kovalchuk will earn $11.5 million per season from 2012-17, but because of the final seven years of the deal the annual cap hit is $6 million. The 17-year deal is the longest contract in NHL history.

The low salary the last few years of the deal were cap circumvention, ANSI he would have been 44 the last year of his contract. My idea was to give stamkos a big salary this year the goto a system of say 9 during his prime trailing down to 3-4 in his later years. This would not violate the cba. Whether or not it gets done or he would be receptive is another matter.

 

[awaz]

The flowing is from an article on TSN explaining the kovalchuk contract.

Kovalchuk became an unrestricted free agent on July 1 and has been called the best player to hit the market in the post-work stoppage era. He's reportedly set to earn $95 million over the first 10 years of the contract and only $7 million over the final seven, including a salary of $550,000 per season over the final five years of the deal.
*
The same reports say Kovalchuk will earn $11.5 million per season from 2012-17, but because of the final seven years of the deal the annual cap hit is $6 million. The 17-year deal is the longest contract in NHL history.

The low salary the last few years of the deal were cap circumvention, ANSI he would have been 44 the last year of his contract. My idea was to give stamkos a big salary this year the goto a system of say 9 during his prime trailing down to 3-4 in his later years. This would not violate the cba. Whether or not it gets done or he would be receptive is another matter.

i thought it was a combination of the salary change and the length.. didn't they come out and say they wouldn't allow contracts that went well past a players expected retirement age?

granted 18 years from now stamkos will 'only' be 39... i'd have a hard time thinking they'd say that's well past any expected retirement age..

 

[Maverick426h]

Look at the Brad Richards deal that was just signed. He makes $12 million for the first two seasons of his deal and only $1 million for the last three seasons. That is still a legal contract and he'll be 40 by the end of the deal, so there's nothing wrong with a Stamkos deal that ultimately lowers his cap hit with cheaper seasons at the end. Richards' salary drops $6 million from the sixth to the seventh year of his deal. The cap hit works out to $6.67 million. If that is legit, then a longer term deal for a much younger player with the same drop off has to be as well.

 

[banditshcky11]

I think with Kovalchuk the length the league had a problem with the fact that his contract went till he was 44 and the last 5 seasons he made a combined for $7 million. Which meant I found an article explaining the alleged violation of the CBA.

TSN’s Gord Murphy points out that Talbot’s relatively modest five-year, $9 million deal could violate the NHL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement. Here’s a quick summary of the structure of Talbot’s new deal in salary form (it would be a $1.8 million cap hit) with the offending span in bold.

2011-12 salary: $2.5 million
2012-13 salary: $2.25 million
2013-14 salary: $2.25 million
2014-15 salary: $1 million
2015-16 salary: $1 million

SBN Philly’s Geoff Detweiler explains why the 2014-15 salary drop could violate the CBA and why it shouldn’t be a big issue if the NHL decides to void the deal.

Briefly, according to Article 50.7 of the CBA, a player cannot have their salary decrease from year to year by more than half the amount of their first two year’s salaries. In the reported Talbot contract, he has a salary of $2.25 million in the second year, but sees his salary decrease from $2.25 million in the third year to $1 million in the fourth year. That $1.25 million decrease is more than half the amount of the lowest salary during the first two years.

While this is clearly a problem, it is relatively easy to fix. If true, the NHL will void Talbot’s contract and make him a free agent again. At which point, the Flyers can simply offer him another five-year, $9 million contract, but this time have him make $2.5 million each of the first two years, and $2 million the third (rather than $2.5 million the first, $2.25 million each of the next two.) Same cap hit, same length, same dollar amount, same two-year bookend.


The way I read this makes me think it really just comes down to monitoring the slary decrease. The Flyers do seem to be pretty good when it comes to long term deals with salary break downs. His 12 year contract had a cap hit of 5.75 mill and the years broke down to the following... 5.4, 5.6, 6.4, 6.6,8.4, 7.6, 7, 6, 5.5, 4.5, 3, 3. This sort of tiered system works extremely well at reducing the cap for a big money contract.

If the league started turning down long term deals just because of the years I would imagine that they would somehow be violating the teams & players rights somehow. By basic math Stamkos is 21 now an 18 year contract would make him 39, which is subsequentially the same age as a certain recently signed russian on our team. A long term deal would definitely be looked at if there are no violations in it I highly doubt there is anything the league can legally do to void it.

 

[wbon22]

don't everyone forget that both Carle and Mezaros played in Tampa....and not too well.