First evidence on SM

[Darrell Green Fan]

First, lets not mis interpret my position. I was against the pick when it happened. All I have said is he was a good pick Some on here have made it sound like he has been a bust. He has not. It is way too early to tell if he is worth the $15 analogy you use or not. If he is a perennial PB player and for a decade, then yes, he is. Williams is also a good player and would have been a good (maybe even safe) pick. The brain trust in Ashburn decided on Scherff. But that's not the point of this latest discussion. The point is who is the brain trust that made the decision? Was it SM or was the ultimate decisions with Allen, as he claims? We (you, I coach, dean, and others on this board) really have no idea. The whole point is that if we are going to lay the blame on a bad draft or FA signings, lets not loose sight that Allen has claimed, multiple times, that he has final decisions on all personnel. Probably even more so with FA than the draft. That was my whole point.

I must have missed Dean's posts that claimed Scherff was a bust. Or anyone elses for that matter.

 

[j_y19]

I must have missed Dean's posts that claimed Scherff was a bust.

You must have. Just like you missed mine stating that Scherff was the right pick?

 

[deanpet21]

Why?

b/c you are misinformed. Plus referring to your post #38 Why would SM take this job if he didn't have the final say on the #5 pick in the draft. That is such bullshit jy. This is what I mean when I say you can read between the lines.

Are you trying to tell me that SM wanted Williams and Allen overridden SM and took Scherff?? LMFAO!!!!

 

[deanpet21]

You must have. Just like you missed mine stating that Scherff was the right pick?

never said he was a bust.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

You must have. Just like you missed mine stating that Scherff was the right pick?

All I saw was you firing away at Dean, again, saying Scherff was a good pick, "get over it". That tells me and anyone else reading it that you were defending the pick. Personally I have never seen Dean ever say Brendan was a bust, I know I never did. If he did as you claim please show your work.

When your head coach says of his only two first round picks "one hasn't played a down and the other's a guard" that tells me he was never on board with the pick. So we are back to who made the final call and I was told at the time it was SM. All this talk from Allen about it being a group decision is bullshit IMO, another attempt to deflect away the value of SM and to take credit for the winning records.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

SM clearly missed and reached in each of his drafts. Scherff vs Williams will always be a tough debate.
The one thing that SM had going for him was that he was putting a winning product on the field and putting a winning mentality in the locker room thru FA, and hoping that would trickle down with his extra picks.

So yeah, he didn't start off the way a FAN would like in the draft BUT we nearly were in the playoffs consecutive seasons. How you fire a guy for that again shows we are DOOMED until our owner dies or sells

 

[deanpet21]

SM clearly missed and reached in each of his drafts. Scherff vs Williams will always be a tough debate.
The one thing that SM had going for him was that he was putting a winning product on the field and putting a winning mentality in the locker room thru FA, and hoping that would trickle down with his extra picks.

So yeah, he didn't start off the way a FAN would like in the draft BUT we nearly were in the playoffs consecutive seasons. How you fire a guy for that again shows we are DOOMED until our owner dies or sells

b/c Sm wasn't responsible for our team being in the playoffs.

 

[Stymietee]

I am one who has never taken a position on passing Williams in favor of Schreff and I won't here either. While some say BPA, others say Need and the rest like myself say consider both, there are other factors to be considered. Chief among them could have very well been the need to protect and stabilize the QB position. Who knows for certain how much this need took precedent over BPA. What we do know is that selecting Schreff served exactly that purpose. Would Williams have been the better selection based upon a strict BPA evaluation?.....Of course!! However, if the priority was in fact to shore up an extremely leaky offensive line, the BPA for that task was Schreff. In a perfect world, we do our homework an then select an overall BPA. However, in the world in which we are constructing a football team, BPA is always determined by need.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

um shrieff was suposed to be are RT but moved to og because of moses

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

we took a rt at 5 not a og shreiff was going to be are RT and that is why we drafted him at 5 but we got him in camp then moses played a little better at rt shreiff got moved to og

 

[Stymietee]

um shrieff was suposed to be are RT but moved to og because of moses

No argument from me, at all, my point was that the greater need if we are giving this any thought at all, was to solidify our offensive line. Could it have been that the decision makers flipped a coin and decided that they would build the offense first and try to get by....by allocating fewer funds and assets at the defense? That is after all what actually did happen....right?

 

[Skin'EmAll]

No argument from me, at all, my point was that the greater need if we are giving this any thought at all, was to solidify our offensive line. Could it have been that the decision makers flipped a coin and decided that they would build the offense first and try to get by....by allocating fewer funds and assets at the defense? That is after all what actually did happen....right?

The organization dodged a bullet with a "kick me" sign attached to it --because they had back to back winning seasons. If not, Scherff would not be able to walk outdoors without a groucho mask

 

[j_y19]

All I saw was you firing away at Dean, again, saying Scherff was a good pick, "get over it". That tells me and anyone else reading it that you were defending the pick. Personally I have never seen Dean ever say Brendan was a bust, I know I never did. If he did as you claim please show your work.

When your head coach says of his only two first round picks "one hasn't played a down and the other's a guard" that tells me he was never on board with the pick. So we are back to who made the final call and I was told at the time it was SM. All this talk from Allen about it being a group decision is bullshit IMO, another attempt to deflect away the value of SM and to take credit for the winning records.

I am defending the pick a as a good pick. You even said so yourself. I have never said anything more. And as far as defending dean, while quite honorable, its so late in the history of this thing that I won't even try and address it. Dean has been anti Scherff since day 1. Why don't you do your own homework and show where he was in fact not? Because I certainly don't feel compelled to do it for you.

BTW, as I have already stated, I was not happy with the pick at the time and would have preferred Williams. But again, that's not the point. As for whether Gruden is happy or not, I have no idea and have never commented one way or another. I have also never said it was a group decision. Why don't you read what I actually said and you might understand my argument. You may not agree, which is fine, but at least you won't apply positions to me I have never taken.

 

[j_y19]

b/c you are misinformed. Plus referring to your post #38 Why would SM take this job if he didn't have the final say on the #5 pick in the draft. That is such bullshit jy. This is what I mean when I say you can read between the lines.

Are you trying to tell me that SM wanted Williams and Allen overridden SM and took Scherff?? LMFAO!!!!

What I am telling you is that neither you, nor I, have any idea what really happened. So to state opinions (which by themselves is fine) as facts is something that you do in almost every thread. You should not have to read between the lines as to what I am saying as i have said it directly a couple of times in this thread.

 

[Sharkinva]

The organization dodged a bullet with a "kick me" sign attached to it --because they had back to back winning seasons. If not, Scherff would not be able to walk outdoors without a groucho mask

So had we taken Williams, and had both a shitty offense and Defense, it would have been some how preferable because we took Williams?? Because lets be clear here, Starting Moses and Long likely leads to who ever played QB being killed by week 4 of the 2015 season.

Scherff was not the sexy pick alot of the fan base wanted, but he was the better pick from both a football and a needs standpoint.

 

[Sportster 72]

From Keim yesterday:
But McCloughan was the general manager and, therefore, the architect. And his 2015 free agent defensive class did not help -- Terrance Knighton, Jeron Johnson, Chris Culliver, Ricky Jean Francois and Stephen Paea. Only Jean Francois lasted a second season. They didn’t get much help last offseason, either, until Josh Norman became available. Let’s be honest: McCloughan’s record here would be viewed differently had Kirk Cousins not played well (the offense largely was built before he arrived, save for receiver Jamison Crowder and guard Brandon Scherff. Both good players). And I respect the heck out of McCloughan’s knowledge (and, setting other issues aside, two years is not enough time to adequately judge what he did. Last year’s draft class, for example, could look a lot different this year and in two years than it did in 2016)."

and:

"I do think they have a stronger defensive staff -- and I always emphasize the word "staff." Just having a big-name coordinator won’t get it done. Gregg Williams worked here because he had a terrific staff. His defenses have not been at that same level in the ensuing years, I think, in part because his staff wasn’t as strong. When Greg Manusky was hired, I always felt it wouldn’t make a big difference unless he hired a strong staff.

So it’s not just spending money on players, it’s about being able to then maximize their ability. The two biggest additions could be line coach Jim Tomsula and secondary coach Torrian Gray. It was not a good mix for the secondary and Perry Fewell last year. For whatever the reason, his style did not mesh with the defensive backs I’ve checked in with this offseason."
"

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

so we can not praise him or bash him ??

 

[skinsdad62]

ok lets be clear here
most of the anti scherf draft crowd wanted williams , they used every debate tool in the book to convince 2 old school posters that they were shitheads and pundits and draft gurus were gods and thinking for oneself was taboo . when the old schoolers were proven right one particular became buut hurt and couldnt accept he was wrong . the same butt hurt poster bashed TM for years even thought the guy HE advocated got picked by us a round later

sherf is a legit PB player as opposed to the pro bowl alternate williams , since now being a PB alternate is legit when it serves the purpose of those who want it that way but used the pro bowl alternate to besmerch RAK when it suited there own purpose

we would be crap on offense without sherf

and for the worn out 2-17 BS being run , first off sherf starts and is a pro bowler , second crowder starts , and thirdly smith starts . and 17 picks in which well over half are mid to late rounders isnt very realistic whne looking for starters , kelly starts and dunbar plays big minutes davis was a great find blackman has started and playe signiificant time josh normab is huge . sullivan stepped in and played well for us kojo played well for us in a couple of wins . the guy fought for KC and we have a record setting qb

he was entering year 3 of a 5 year rebuild after being handed a shit roster and has built 2 super bowl teams in his previous stops

we have 10 picks because of him in this draft and the fa's we signed this season are off HIS board

no he isnt god but our "winning ways " coinside with his arrival

 

[Sharkinva]

IM just curious how long people are going to continue to dry bitch over the fact that we took Scherff over Williams. I for one get tired of the veiled sentiment that while Scherff has turned out to be a very good player, we would have been better off taking Williams.

I would love some of these whiners to say they honestly think Williams was the key to taking us from a yearly bottom 5 defense over the last five years before the draft, to a top 5 defense single handedly. Scherff was a key part of our offense improving and continuing to improve. Williams would have been the top five pick on a bottom five defense.

 

[Sleepy T]

we would be crap on offense without sherf

Just stop. While Scherff is a very very good player, let's not act like he is as important to the OL as Trent, or probably Moses for that matter. Kirk Vousins didn't magically start throwing for thousands of yards when Scherff arrived.

Last I checked our running game was not great, some of that can be attributed to the lack of talent/injuries at the RB position, some of that falls on the OL, particularly the interior.

The argument for Williams over Scherff is largely because while our OL has been OK, our DL has been a steaming pile of shit. Williams would have made as much of an impact on our porous DL as Scherff has made. It's a valid argument.