First evidence on SM

[deanpet21]

Dean...what happened to our OL when Scherff was inserted?

Did Zeke really improve Dallas' running game or was it the addition of a running QB?

Vic Beasley did what as a rookie? He had a great season last year; however, how much did he really improve ATL defense?

Are you serious dude? Moses was the one who locked down the RT position and stopped pass rushers from getting to KC. Scherff helped but did not have an impact like the others did. Let me get this straight you would rather have Scehrff right now than Zeke or Beasley? So if both those teams offered us straight up trade for Scherff you would say no. LMFAO!

You are off your rocker. First the MCcaffery statement not going first round and now this. Wow. just wow!!

Plus if Mixon didn't have the off field incident there could be an argument that he would of went top 10.

 

[Sharkinva]

I laughed at the Boys when they spent such a high pick on Zeke, always was in the camp that you can find a RB. But I don't believe for a second that a running QB, not the back, was the reason for their improved running game. No IMO it was the back, not a mobile QB, who made the big difference. It's not like they were running the read option and nobody had ever seen it before like with Morris and RGIII

I look at him, AP, Jamal Charles, Le’Veon Bell, Gurley etc and realize that yeah, taking a back high isn't such a bad idea after all.

Welcome to the dark side.

 

[deanpet21]

I laughed at the Boys when they spent such a high pick on Zeke, always was in the camp that you can find a RB. But I don't believe for a second that a running QB, not the back, was the reason for their improved running game. No IMO it was the back, not a mobile QB, who made the big difference. It's not like they were running the read option and nobody had ever seen it before like with Morris and RGIII

I look at him, AP, Jamal Charles, Le’Veon Bell, Gurley etc and realize that yeah, taking a back high isn't such a bad idea after all.

The reason why Zeke went so high is b/c he is a do it all type of back and can have an impact on the game. If the Cowboys passed on him he was going top 10. gk is just being nuts with these posts.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

If Foster is there, you run his name up to the podium. He is one of the few defensive players not named Myles that I would take over Cook. Thomas and Hooker would be the others... Jonathan Allen WOULD have been on this list.. but he got Dean Factored out a while back.

Agreed, someone is GOING to drop. As mentioned, I HOPE we don't draft a you know what with the prospects that will be available.

Hate to disagree with you because Fournette is one hellacious runner. Problem is he a horrifically poor blocker and his receiving game needs a lot of work, that to me doesn't spell once in a lifetime RB (generational). Don't get me wrong, I'd take him in a blink if I could but to me the most complete back in a draft that we've seen in quite a long time wore #25 in OU colors.

I personally consider him above average BUT the media has been using that term with both him and Mixon.
Fournette is being compared to, and even better than AP by Charley Casserly. He was compared to Bo, last night by NFL analyst due to his rare size, speed and power. AP no doubt was a generational back, and he couldn't catch, needed to improve his blocking and had a problem with fumbling. I'm going to make a bold statement and say they are equals since Perrine, Mixon's backfield mate seems to have equally impressive numbers

 

[ehb5]

Was adding 2 cents into this interesting argument specifically when it got to RB value at 17.
Ehb5, skimming thru some of the dialogue with Dean -- taking a RB at 17, in fact arguably the #1 until a poor combine(agility/accel is easy to improve upon) would hardly be a reach. It is completely different then a top 10 situation where you are hoping a pick turns around the franchise. He is likely going to be the 2nd RB drafted, look at the list of the RBs taken 2nd in the past few drafts - le'veon bell, jeremy hill, melvin gordon, derrick henry.


Shark that's where I agree with you about RB if at this point R.Foster is gone.

Sty -- According to analyst there are two generational RBs this year. Fournette and Mixon.

I'm not sure agility and acceleration is that easy to improve. That's a pretty physical trait. Maybe you can improve a little but it'll be limited. That said - on tape his agility is fine and his acceleration looks great. Definitely a weird situation.

That list of 2nd rbs really means nothing. 3 of the 4 were 2nd round picks not 1st rounders. And the only one worth the pick so far is Bell. I like Henry but he's not even a starter yet.

 

[ehb5]

I laughed at the Boys when they spent such a high pick on Zeke, always was in the camp that you can find a RB. But I don't believe for a second that a running QB, not the back, was the reason for their improved running game. No IMO it was the back, not a mobile QB, who made the big difference. It's not like they were running the read option and nobody had ever seen it before like with Morris and RGIII

I look at him, AP, Jamal Charles, Le’Veon Bell, Gurley etc and realize that yeah, taking a back high isn't such a bad idea after all.

It was a combo of a goof qb teams had to respect and zeke being very good. But I'm still confident they would've been better off with Ramsey or Bosa.

As for the 4 guys you named...AP is the best example but that was 10 years ago now. And what are the odds we find the next AP. Bell and Charles were both 2nd rounders (I know you didn't specifically say 1st rounders) showing elite talent can be had a little later. And then Gurley we don't even know much about yet. He's in a shit situation but in 2 years in the league has just 5 good games. So far he isn't close to being worth that pick for them.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'm not sure agility and acceleration is that easy to improve. That's a pretty physical trait. Maybe you can improve a little but it'll be limited. That said - on tape his agility is fine and his acceleration looks great. Definitely a weird situation.
.

The combine numbers do make one think. Who knows maybe he had a twisted ankle, or a late night doing "alternative" workout and just had an off day. He did improve his 40 time at his pro day, but he didnt do the 3 cone. And while a 4.43 still aint going to blow any one away. He is faster on the field than his 40 time would indicate.

 

[ehb5]

Welcome to the dark side.

Hey I wana be the dark side

 

[Skin'EmAll]

I'm not sure agility and acceleration is that easy to improve. That's a pretty physical trait. Maybe you can improve a little but it'll be limited. That said - on tape his agility is fine and his acceleration looks great. Definitely a weird situation.

That list of 2nd rbs really means nothing. 3 of the 4 were 2nd round picks not 1st rounders. And the only one worth the pick so far is Bell. I like Henry but he's not even a starter yet.

That's exactly my point, all of sudden arguably the most talented back goes from top 10 to late 1st because of poor performance on drills. His tape is excellent, but if he had managed to improve his acceleration and top speed, vertical, etc...he would be mocked 4th overall to JAX and Fournette would be mocked to the Panthers.
Still a good pick that side of the draft. Also, Bell was clearly undervalued, Henry appears to be too.
Gordon looked good his 2nd year, the Chargers simply suck. Hill seemed to be drafted where his true value was.

Personally I think being able to get the #2 overall RB outside of the top 15 picks in the draft would be a steal.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm just not feeling McCaffery. If you do take a back at 17 he needs to be special. Maybe it's the "white back" prejudice but he just looks like an all around back that can be found in rounds 2-3.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'm just not feeling McCaffery. If you do take a back at 17 he needs to be special. Maybe it's the "white back" prejudice but he just looks like an all around back that can be found in rounds 2-3.

Agreed, not on the white back part, but I think McCaffery is option number 3 and there might be better choices if Cook is off the board.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Ok, this close to the draft, time to put entertainment aside -- if Fournette and Cook are gone at 17.
The 'skins will pass on McCaffery and Mixon in the 1st. I like McCaffery a bunch -- good kid, mismatch, NFL bloodlines but it would be equivilant to drafting Evan Engram or OJ Howard at 17.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Agreed, not on the white back part, but I think McCaffery is option number 3 and there might be better choices if Cook is off the board.

I want no part of white corners and white running backs.

I just don't see him as a 25 carrier prime back. What he does well we already have in Chris Thompson.

 

[ehb5]

The combine numbers do make one think. Who knows maybe he had a twisted ankle, or a late night doing "alternative" workout and just had an off day. He did improve his 40 time at his pro day, but he didnt do the 3 cone. And while a 4.43 still aint going to blow any one away. He is faster on the field than his 40 time would indicate.

All true, but...40 times are historically about .05 faster at combines most likely due to funky timing. As for the 3 cone...I think it only makes it more concerning he didn't do it at his pro day.

As for what caused it I have a hard time buying he was hurt as he would've either dropped out or we would've heard about it. I HAVE heard (and mind you this is complete rumor or conjecture) that he could have tanked his combine because he's trying to fall to Tampa Bay at 19 or that his bad combine just shows bad work ethic because he just didn't care enough to prepare for it. OR he could just be a much worse athlete than we all thought. On the other hand I've also seen recently that sports science tested him (or whatever it is they do) and found that his on tape athleticism is both legit and damn impressive. But that's the extent of what I heard so idk what's true and what any of those numbers or tests were.

 

[ehb5]

That's exactly my point, all of sudden arguably the most talented back goes from top 10 to late 1st because of poor performance on drills. His tape is excellent, but if he had managed to improve his acceleration and top speed, vertical, etc...he would be mocked 4th overall to JAX and Fournette would be mocked to the Panthers.
Still a good pick that side of the draft. Also, Bell was clearly undervalued, Henry appears to be too.
Gordon looked good his 2nd year, the Chargers simply suck. Hill seemed to be drafted where his true value was.

Personally I think being able to get the #2 overall RB outside of the top 15 picks in the draft would be a steal.

That is a large part of why, but it's not unjustified. You can't expect him to have the same status after turning in a god awful combine. And I doubt he'd go before Fournette anyways. And possibly not McAffrey either.

I mean I guess Bell was undervalued but doesn't that just show you can get a stud later. Henry has like 100 career carries. No way would Henry be worth #17 based on what we know now. Gordon wouldn't be either (who btw is surrounded by a lot offensive talent in SD and still hasn't touched 4 ypc). Hill has 1 1000 yard season. He's not good. He would've been worth I don't know maybe a 5th rounder?

I don't get what the significance of the #2 rb in a draft is anyways. You could be #2 at a position and still be a bad prospect. And in this draft Cook might be as low as the 4th best rb.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Are you serious dude? Moses was the one who locked down the RT position and stopped pass rushers from getting to KC. Scherff helped but did not have an impact like the others did. Let me get this straight you would rather have Scehrff right now than Zeke or Beasley? So if both those teams offered us straight up trade for Scherff you would say no. LMFAO!

You are off your rocker. First the MCcaffery statement not going first round and now this. Wow. just wow!!

Plus if Mixon didn't have the off field incident there could be an argument that he would of went top 10.

I'd trade Scherff for Beasley and Williams, not for Zeke. Again you can find a running back, and a guard, easier than a pass rusher or a potentially dominant DL

 

[deanpet21]

I'd trade Scherff for Beasley and Williams, not for Zeke. Again you can find a running back, and a guard, easier than a pass rusher or a potentially dominant DL

I agree with you.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

we are going to draft cook , mccaffery or tj.watt book it this is not my top 3 choices at all but ist true

 

[skinsdad62]

Are you serious dude? Moses was the one who locked down the RT position and stopped pass rushers from getting to KC. Scherff helped but did not have an impact like the others did. Let me get this straight you would rather have Scehrff right now than Zeke or Beasley? So if both those teams offered us straight up trade for Scherff you would say no. LMFAO!

You are off your rocker. First the MCcaffery statement not going first round and now this. Wow. just wow!!

Plus if Mixon didn't have the off field incident there could be an argument that he would of went top 10.

Sherf makes Moses and long , without him they are Steiger and polumbus or a turnstyle

 

[gkekoa]

I laughed at the Boys when they spent such a high pick on Zeke, always was in the camp that you can find a RB. But I don't believe for a second that a running QB, not the back, was the reason for their improved running game. No IMO it was the back, not a mobile QB, who made the big difference. It's not like they were running the read option and nobody had ever seen it before like with Morris and RGIII

I look at him, AP, Jamal Charles, Le’Veon Bell, Gurley etc and realize that yeah, taking a back high isn't such a bad idea after all.

Take another look though. Their running game didn't improve too much. They went up by .2 yards per carry and 500 yards total on the year. Their QB improved their rush by more than 200 yards there...the RB position improved by under 300.

Gurley didn't get to 900 yards.

D'Angelo Williams was great when Bell was out.