Fantasy theory

[MilkSpiller22]

We all love fantasy football around here... But wouldn't it be nice if fantasy could express real football better??

Here are some ideas out of normal to represent players better

1. use first downs instead of PPR(only for WR/RB/TE)- by doing this you now don't penalize non receiving backs for not receiving.... you also can not get points for NEGATIVE yards. has all the same advantages of PPR as well... it measures volume, and efficiency... also, recognizes the difference between game calls, as there are plays that are meant to just get minimal yards...

2. QB is the most important position in real life, also the highest scoring position in fantasy, but yet there is generally not a big difference between QBs in fantasy... So QB scoring needs the most change IMO, and it would be great to find a way to penalize garbage time and reward game managers a little... here are the easiest ways to better change QB scoring IMO...

a. Reward for completion and penalize for Incompletions- the actual points is up to you, depending on what you think is right... but I think using a QB pass percentage stat would be great... I feel like this is the best way to show garbage time, as qbs that had trouble in the beginning of the game are likely going to have less efficient games
b. larger penalty for interceptions... -2 is just not enough IMO
c. use sacks, mobile QBs generally get sacked more than the elite pocket qbs, as they hold the ball longer... by using this stat you get an equalizer against the mobile qbs…

d. this one I think is the most controversial... but how about rewarding a QB for winning( or penalized for a loss- not both)... game managers get punished for not having the stats, but its not there fault that they don't NEED to get the stats... its not a QBs fault, that the team doesn't need to score 30 points to win... and can run out the clock...

3. this is not to represent players better, but to represent fantasy owners better- reward players for just playing the game...(this is not a millennial thing)… - what this does is it penalizes owners for starting players who are on bye weeks or injured, or just not playing... nothing worse than losing to a fantasy team who didn't fix their lineup, lets make it harder for them to win...

4. Defenses should get rewarded for win OR penalized for a loss... one or the other, not both... But a defense on a winning team did their job just well enough to win... right???



any of you have any ideas?? what works well in your league??


****note*** I did not insert how many points any reward or punishment should be... clearly you should find what works best for your league...

 

[SmokingMonkey]

I've had rushing/receiving 1st downs as part of scoring for at least 3 seasons in some of my redraft leagues, like it a lot. Rewards the players that keep drives alive.

The problem with incompletions is that there are too many times during a game of football where throwing an incompletion is the RIGHT play for a QB to make, so you'd be penalizing someone for making the correct play.

I like the Team Win pts for DST if you aren't doing IDP, over giving that to the QB. But I also believe that defenses impact the W/L column more than QB, even if QB is the most important position

 

[Robotech]

Maybe allow the option to sub out a player who gets injured during a game with one whose game hasn't started yet. The injury would need to happen in the first half. That way you're not stuck with a zero or some very low score if your player gets injured early, and you have a more real life use of a bench, but you don't get bailed out if an underperforming player that you started gets hurt in the second half.

 

[cwalke3408]

I think WRs should get rewarded for drawing DPI (1 or 2 pts per flag)
* this can't happen in fantasy until they log this as a stat for WRs IRL

 

[TKOSpikes]

Like the first down idea.
I've grown to PPR, but was never really a big fan. I'd prefer a bonus point at the 5th catch, then 10th catch, or something like that.

QB getting negative points for bonehead receivers dropping passes? No thanks.
QB interceptions need to be higher than -2, I agree. Though I think -3 is plenty... then add in another -3 if it's a pick-6.
I don't like wins in baseball, so I certainly wouldn't support QB wins. Makes no sense.

Cam got 2+ points on his last meaningless duck of a hail mary to the 10 yard line. But garbage time is a tricky obstacle to legislate. (a meaningless INT could happen just the same)


I like mixing up scoring, but find the terminology irrelevant. As in, no, I don't think fantasy football should better express real football. That would take offensive line scoring... which is impossible.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

I think WRs should get rewarded for drawing DPI (1 or 2 pts per flag)
* this can't happen in fantasy until they log this as a stat for WRs IRL

And negative for OPI!

 

[Barilko]

and even though sacks can at times be for holding the ball to long i still think just as many times or more its not the Qbs fault

also if he throws it away to avoid the sack he then gets penalized for the imcompletion kinda a "Catch 22" is it not....

not to mention we reward the D for the sack so now we punish the Qb as well i do not agree......

for me a "sack" is a defensive bonus stat...

1st down rewards now that has some serious potential....

also just to mention TKO.s thought on points for every 5 catches instead of every one that works as well but pretty tough on free sites

i think as ppr became common place and used all over the rise of ".5" PPR should/will take over


i think ( rewarding 1st downs for rbs and removing the ppr from rbs would work very well along with

and using .5 ppr for TE and Wrs alone and no 1st down bonus for them could be a solid combo)


However

with all the above taken into consideration i still think that it is a mistake to compare scoring for one position up against another position as that is what makes the challenge of building via the draft and deciding when to pull the trigger on certain players in certain positions....

 

[Barilko]

@MilkSpiller22 and PS...Great Thread

 

[MilkSpiller22]

@MilkSpiller22 and PS...Great Thread

i do see there is no perfect way... but hopefully we can find better ways...

i listen to the fantasy sports radio, one of the shows was talking about how this new generation of runningQBs have broken the system some... and i agree... Real life mediocrity should not equal fantasy eliteness... their point wasn't really about that, it was more about how the fantasy world judges QBs season to season... but still...


also, having a thread like this will prevent me from asking for any MBBRL leagues to change rules... hopefully....

 

[Bandit]

i do see there is no perfect way... but hopefully we can find better ways...

i listen to the fantasy sports radio, one of the shows was talking about how this new generation of runningQBs have broken the system some... and i agree... Real life mediocrity should not equal fantasy eliteness... their point wasn't really about that, it was more about how the fantasy world judges QBs season to season... but still...


also, having a thread like this will prevent me from asking for any MBBRL leagues to change rules... hopefully....

What if all quarterback touchdowns were worth 4 points instead of just passing touchdowns. Rushing touchdowns could be included in that as well. Also, you could just make quarterback rushing only .1 points for every 2 yards instead of every yard. That would mean if Kyler Murray rushes for 60 yards and two touchdowns it would be worth 11 points instead of 18 points. Just an idea if you really wanted equalize the scoring between running quarterbacks and passing quarterbacks. I think it would tough to convince an entire league to go along with it though.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

What if all quarterback touchdowns were worth 4 points instead of just passing touchdowns. Rushing touchdowns could be included in that as well. Also, you could just make quarterback rushing only .1 points for every 2 yards instead of every yard. That would mean if Kyler Murray rushes for 60 yards and two touchdowns it would be worth 11 points instead of 18 points. Just an idea if you really wanted equalize the scoring between running quarterbacks and passing quarterbacks. I think it would tough to convince an entire league to go along with it though.

actually, I like some of those ideas...

But I am not looking to ONLY equalize between the mobile QB vs the not...

QBs are so tough, because there is so much going on... and fantasy QBs don't have to have good games to put up good numbers... and game script is just too big of a factor...

Using some kind of efficiency stat, whether it is a flat out QB pass % or to use completions and incompletions, or whatever, I really think is the way of the future for fantasy football...

 

[TKOSpikes]

actually, I like some of those ideas...

But I am not looking to ONLY equalize between the mobile QB vs the not...

QBs are so tough, because there is so much going on... and fantasy QBs don't have to have good games to put up good numbers... and game script is just too big of a factor...

Using some kind of efficiency stat, whether it is a flat out QB pass % or to use completions and incompletions, or whatever, I really think is the way of the future for fantasy football...

comp % is the worst stat in sports
it's useless... and deserves no attention.

I'm not sure where you're going with this one.
The 1st down thing, yes. Makes a ton of sense.
A screen pass for negative yards not being scored because PPR, yes. Makes a ton of sense.

This QB completion stuff though, is not in the same ballpark. Taysom Hill hit the bullseye to Michael Thomas last week, and it went right through his hands almost hit his face. Happens all the time, in every game... even the ball in the face part.

Maybe can you give an example of a specific? I'm having trouble seeing your QB scoring dilemma.
As it pertains to garbage time, maybe the future holds a weighted quarters/16.5+ score gap formula.

 

[TKOSpikes]

In my main money league, we still use non decimal scoring.

Gotta get that 60th rush/rec yard to get to six. 59 and 51 are the same five.
Gotta get that 200th pass yard to get to eight. 199 and 176 are the same seven.
Total yards do not count. 65 rush + 35 rec = nine, not 10.

Thresholds matter... but I see the counter argument and have probably supported the counter argument.

Nevertheless, I think QB getting a point at 25 yards is silly when you really think about it. How about only starting pass yards points AFTER 100, or 150? That takes away 4-6 points every week, making them "earn it".
I guess this isn't where you were going though, considering your game manager factor. But if the same QB getting garbage time, instead has a great first quarter, with the rest of the game being a dud, how is that different if they still lose?
I say, that's why most leagues are only one QB. Take your chances with Cousins watching Cook score four times, or watch Goff light up the Bucs on your bench.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

comp % is the worst stat in sports
it's useless... and deserves no attention.

I'm not sure where you're going with this one.
The 1st down thing, yes. Makes a ton of sense.
A screen pass for negative yards not being scored because PPR, yes. Makes a ton of sense.

This QB completion stuff though, is not in the same ballpark. Taysom Hill hit the bullseye to Michael Thomas last week, and it went right through his hands almost hit his face. Happens all the time, in every game... even the ball in the face part.

Maybe can you give an example of a specific? I'm having trouble seeing your QB scoring dilemma.
As it pertains to garbage time, maybe the future holds a weighted quarters/16.5+ score gap formula.

Really just trying to start a discussion... I really have no clue... But we do see it every week where a QB has a BAD game IRL but fantasy his numbers look good... if not elite...


and I agree that Completion percent isn't great... but i do think using some sort of it and increasing the penalty for an interception, would help express a bad QB game better...

QBs are just so weird, because it is Mobile QB vs non mobile QB, and then QBs are the most game script dependent...


I do understand, that with lots of this logic, it also implies that a running back should also be judged by there YPC... but i am not going to go that far to go there.... as i dont think it is the same...

 

[TKOSpikes]

Really just trying to start a discussion... I really have no clue... But we do see it every week where a QB has a BAD game IRL but fantasy his numbers look good... if not elite...


and I agree that Completion percent isn't great... but i do think using some sort of it and increasing the penalty for an interception, would help express a bad QB game better...

QBs are just so weird, because it is Mobile QB vs non mobile QB, and then QBs are the most game script dependent...


I do understand, that with lots of this logic, it also implies that a running back should also be judged by there YPC... but i am not going to go that far to go there.... as i dont think it is the same...

Hard to discuss a claim without an example though.

O-line is the most important part of an offense... and they get no fantasy love.
Does an RB who "gains" ten yards on one carry thanks to great blocking deserve a point, if the RB is tackled on first contact?
Does a "goal line RB" deserve a one yard TD after his teammate just took them down the field for 75 yards?

I think you're overthinking QB. Maybe you're not, but I would need an example.

 

[PhilSimms11]

I've done this in my league for several years now. I use FleaFlicker and I love it. You can customize very specifically unlike Yahoo, ESPN, and other websites.

All TD = 6.
Every 50 yards passing = 1
Every 25 scrimmage yards (rushing, receiving)= 2
PPR (WR-TE only)
Every 1st down = 1 (RB only)
FG
39 or less = 3
40-49 = 4
50-59 = 5
60-64 = 6
65+ = 10