Every position on the defense has improved

[deanpet21]

Now that the draft is over and I was looking at the defensive depth chart. Every position has improved over the 2016 defense. The dline is way more talented and has more depth. We finally have a ILb who has pro bowl potential. We are now deeper at OLB even with the TM suspension. Deeper at Cb with a 100% Fuller and the drafting of Moreau. Safety we now have Swearinger who is an upgrade over anybody we had on the team from last year.

IF KC is as good as advertised we should be competing for the division title this year. The team has replaced the offensive weapons we have lost. Plus we now have a RB who supposedly has talent. Even with a tough schedule this should be a successful season.

 

[Breed]

What constitutes a successful season for you??

 

[skinsdad62]

I am going to take a look at where we are at when I get home in a week but at this time. I would caution against extreme hopes . Injuries can hurt . Now some of those FA,s will fail . Perhaps half , rookies take time to develop aka Allen so use leonard williams rookie year as a gage . Anderson could be a smith or TM rookie year

It could take time for Pryor and MKD to jell with KC . Perine may not be ready to start right away

Way too early to predict things

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

DL always take longer than OL to develop. Just look at the rookie numbers of some of the greatest of all time for confirmation. I would manage expectations on our rookie With that said and the loss of our two best DL while being replaced with Just a Guy types I am not ready to say the DL is all that improved, for this year anyway. How a team can run a 3-4 for this many years and still not have a legit NT is beyond me.

 

[gkekoa]

DL always take longer than OL to develop. Just look at the rookie numbers of some of the greatest of all time for confirmation. I would manage expectations on our rookie With that said and the loss of our two best DL while being replaced with Just a Guy types I am not ready to say the DL is all that improved, for this year anyway. How a team can run a 3-4 for this many years and still not have a legit NT is beyond me.

You say we lost our 2 best DL and I agree with that statement; however, i disagree when you refer to McClain and McGee as just a guy types when they started on better DLs and defenses than we had.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

You say we lost our 2 best DL and I agree with that statement; however, i disagree when you refer to McClain and McGee as just a guy types when they started on better DLs and defenses than we had.

McLain is now on his 5th team in 7 years. His career year shows numbers far below Chris Baker's average over the last severral seasons. McGee is also coming off a career year where he recorded all of 17 tackles. I get the age and contract part but just from a performance perspective there is no way these two are an upgrade over the 2 we lost.

And again RJF was obviously cut after he spoke up against the organization. That still pisses me off and shows just how petty this organization continues to be. It also shows why players and coaches don't want to put their name to critical quotes. It should be obvious that when they do that they put their jobs at risk.

 

[deanpet21]

What constitutes a successful season for you??

a winning season or playoff win

 

[deanpet21]

McLain is now on his 5th team in 7 years. His career year shows numbers far below Chris Baker's average over the last severral seasons. McGee is also coming off a career year where he recorded all of 17 tackles. I get the age and contract part but just from a performance perspective there is no way these two are an upgrade over the 2 we lost.

And again RJF was obviously cut after he spoke up against the organization. That still pisses me off and shows just how petty this organization continues to be. It also shows why players and coaches don't want to put their name to critical quotes. It should be obvious that when they do that they put their jobs at risk.

Give me MCGee. MClain and Allen over Baker and RJF all day. Baker and RJf were just decent lineman. More like rotational guys. To say the dline is weaker now is crazy. Way more young talent on this dline than last year. Plus you have Lainer who the coaches like. The dline got upgraded , there is no question about it.

plus we have Tomsula who should make a big difference. The front seven is light years better than it was last year. Cmon DGfan are you drunk?

 

[deanpet21]

You say we lost our 2 best DL and I agree with that statement; however, i disagree when you refer to McClain and McGee as just a guy types when they started on better DLs and defenses than we had.

Sure there were are best 2 dlineman on a bad line. lol. So that doesn't mean anything. Are dline is younger and more talented. Plus you have to add Tomsula to the equation.

 

[deanpet21]

I am going to take a look at where we are at when I get home in a week but at this time. I would caution against extreme hopes . Injuries can hurt . Now some of those FA,s will fail . Perhaps half , rookies take time to develop aka Allen so use leonard williams rookie year as a gage . Anderson could be a smith or TM rookie year

It could take time for Pryor and MKD to jell with KC . Perine may not be ready to start right away

Way too early to predict things

Of course you cant predict an injury. talent wise we are way better than last year.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Give me MCGee. MClain and Allen over Baker and RJF all day. Baker and RJf were just decent lineman. More like rotational guys. To say the dline is weaker now is crazy. Way more young talent on this dline than last year. Plus you have Lainer who the coaches like. The dline got upgraded , there is no question about it.

plus we have Tomsula who should make a big difference. The front seven is light years better than it was last year. Cmon DGfan are you drunk?

I just went over McGee and McClain. How does a guy with 17 tackles as his high water mark give you any indication that he is an upgrade? Same thing with a guy who is on his 5th team in 7 years, that guy is the definition of "journeyman".

It makes zero sense to assume they are an upgrade. Now Allen, that's a different story. Cleary he could be better than both Baker and RJF. But again I caution you to not to expect too much given the history of so many good DEs in their rookie season.

 

[deanpet21]

I just went over McGee and McClain. How does a guy with 17 tackles as his high water mark give you any indication that he is an upgrade? Same thing with a guy who is on his 5th team in 7 years, that guy is the definition of "journeyman".

It makes zero sense to assume they are an upgrade. Now Allen, that's a different story. Cleary he could be better than both Baker and RJF. But again I caution you to not to expect too much given the history of so many good DEs in their rookie season.

The MC guys are upgrades b/c they played on better dlines and they offer more than RJF and Baker. McGee has been hurt but has more talent than both of our previous lineman. The whole depth chart is better than last year. I wouldn't worry about NT. Taylor or another fat boy should be able to handle the two down position.

Plus if you think baker was so great why couldn't he produce at NT last year? They had to move Hood which was out of position to NT. Baker stunk in the 2nd half of the season last year. Its not a loss that he has moved on.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

The MC guys are upgrades b/c they played on better dlines and they offer more than RJF and Baker. McGee has been hurt but has more talent than both of our previous lineman. The whole depth chart is better than last year. I wouldn't worry about NT. Taylor or another fat boy should be able to handle the two down position.

Plus if you think baker was so great why couldn't he produce at NT last year? They had to move Hood which was out of position to NT. Baker stunk in the 2nd half of the season last year. Its not a loss that he has moved on.

Baker while "not producing" still had better numbers than either of the new guys at their best. Last year he had 47 tackles, 3.5 sacks and 2 FF. Can't decide which one of McGee's season was his best between '16 when he had 17 tackles and 2.5 sacks in 9 games or '15 when he had 22 tackles and 0 sacks in 16 game. Again McLean is a journeyman, you have not address how he has been on 7 teams in 5 seasons. Probably because his career season consists of 40 tackles and 2.5 sacks. Prior to that his career high was 19 tackles and 1 sack. Nope, even in Baker's "bad" season his number are still better than his replacement's career years. There is no way to back up the position that this is an upgrade when the numbers just don't show it.

I don't understand the argument that they are good because they played on better DLs. Our OL is better than most, does that suddenly elevate S. Lavau so now he is a better player than he was when our line stunk? Does this mean Will Perdue was a good player because he played on Michael Jordan's Bulls?

 

[deanpet21]

Baker while "not producing" still had better numbers than either of the new guys at their best. Last year he had 47 tackles, 3.5 sacks and 2 FF. Can't decide which one of McGee's season was his best between '16 when he had 17 tackles and 2.5 sacks in 9 games or '15 when he had 22 tackles and 0 sacks in 16 game. Again McLean is a journeyman, you have not address how he has been on 7 teams in 5 seasons. Probably because his career season consists of 40 tackles and 2.5 sacks. Prior to that his career high was 19 tackles and 1 sack. Nope, even in Baker's "bad" season his number are still better than his replacement's career years. There is no way to back up the position that this is an upgrade when the numbers just don't show it.

I don't understand the argument that they are good because they played on better DLs. Our OL is better than most, does that suddenly elevate S. Lavau so now he is a better player than he was when our line stunk? Does this mean Will Perdue was a good player because he played on Michael Jordan's Bulls?

McGee was hurt last year so why are you comparing numbers? lol. McClain is a journeyman just like RJF. He has been productive for Dallas. They will be upgrades. Our line wont be as bad as last year. If I am wrong then I will admit it.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

As I said I picked his best season of his career. I couldn't decide if it was last year, with 9 games, or the year before when he played in 16 and STILL put up crappy numbers. Why don't you get this? There is no statistical proof what so ever that either of these guys are anything more than just more bodies? None what so ever.

 

[deanpet21]

As I said I picked his best season of his career. I couldn't decide if it was last year, with 9 games, or the year before when he played in 16 and STILL put up crappy numbers. Why don't you get this? There is no statistical proof what so ever that either of these guys are anything more than just more bodies? None what so ever.

But you are just looking a t the stats. Im sure these guys are better run defenders. Are you actually saying that the line is going to be worst this year than last year?

 

[gkekoa]

We had the worst line in football last season. We picked up 2 lineman in FA from better DLs, both were arguably the best on their respective lines, and some how we downgraded? I can't follow that line of thinking.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

These guys were arguably the best DL on their respective teams? You may want to Google the name Kahalil Mack for starters, I won't even look up the rest. It's just crazy to assume these guys are upgrades simply because they were playing with better players around them then what we had.

Do I think we will be worse than last year? Not really, just not a huge improvement. We still have a lot of warm bodies in the rotation. But certainly not a huge upgrade unless our rookie performs better than just about any rookie DL in history.

 

[Sharkinva]

These guys were arguably the best DL on their respective teams? You may want to Google the name Kahalil Mack for starters, I won't even look up the rest. It's just crazy to assume these guys are upgrades simply because they were playing with better players around them then what we had.

Do I think we will be worse than last year? Not really, just not a huge improvement. We still have a lot of warm bodies in the rotation. But certainly not a huge upgrade unless our rookie performs better than just about any rookie DL in history.

Might I remind you, you are arguing D-line talent with some one who on the one hand thought Ziggy Hood was an outstanding signing, but then bashes the GM as a complete and utter failure for us.

Just figured I would point that out.

Carry on.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm not going there, I can debate Dean on the subject without going that route and bring up earlier issues.

I think McGee has potential but at this point it is simply potential, he has proven nothing. McClean is the definition of a journeyman. 4 different teams in the last 6 years said they could do better and let him walk. Come on guys, let's be realistic.