Eating Crow

[Heathbar012]

This isn't a play-off team. I apologize, EK. You were right at the beginning of the year. The front office should've started blowing up this roster last month.

 

[CameronFrye]

This isn't a play-off team. I apologize, EK. You were right at the beginning of the year. The front office should've started blowing up this roster last month.

The biggest problem with our hopes that the new owners will blow up the team is that they have already wasted the amnesty provision on Charlie Bell's expiring contract and they are so in love with the overrated _avi_ Lee that they won't even consider trading him.

Until we fans get owners and a front office system that will evaluate players solely on their ability on the court, we will continually be rooting for a losing team.

And NO PLAYER should be off limits - including Stephanie Curry and her tender ankle.

 

[tzill]

The biggest problem with our hopes that the new owners will blow up the team is that they have already wasted the amnesty provision on Charlie Bell's expiring contract and they are so in love with the overrated _avi_ Lee that they won't even consider trading him.

Until we fans get owners and a front office system that will evaluate players solely on their ability on the court, we will continually be rooting for a losing team.

And NO PLAYER should be off limits - including Stephanie Curry and her tender ankle.

I dunno about the lameness of the FO, Avi aside. We've got West, Myers, and Welts there. I believe Avi was acquired pre-logo.

OTOH, I agree 100% that we should be willing to move anyone and everyone to get rid of Avi and Beans' contracts.

 

[CameronFrye]

I dunno about the lameness of the FO, Avi aside. We've got West, Myers, and Welts there. I believe Avi was acquired pre-logo.

OTOH, I agree 100% that we should be willing to move anyone and everyone to get rid of Avi and Beans' contracts.

I guess I just don't see the impact from West that I expected. While his NBA credentials cannot be questioned, I expected a more cold-hearted approach that would allow the new owners to make the best basketball decisions possible.

So far, I don't think that the best basketball decisions have been made at all. Given the choice to amnesty Biedrins or Lee, they chose Charlie Bell and his $4 mil expiring. Given the opportunity to trade Biedrins to Houston for a couple of nobodys (Tha-bust and Jordan Hill), the Warriors exercised caution and declined the offer. Granted the Biedrins offer was about 3 weeks after West arrived, but the fact remains that the deal was not taken.

West was also very high on Klay Thompson. I know the kid is a rookie and needs time to get acclimated to the league, but his biggest selling point was his ability to shoot from anywhere. Right now, that's the least of his abilities. If he cannot shoot, he's useless.

To me, the only bright spot on the team at this point is Monta, and even he has his limitations. As a fan, I want the team to do SOMETHING to prove to us that they want to win. That something just isn't happening.

 

[EKmane]

This isn't a play-off team. I apologize, EK. You were right at the beginning of the year. The front office should've started blowing up this roster last month.

Yeah, if no Howard then I'm back on the blow up plan too (including Curry). I'll bump the thread to get some ideas from everyone.

 

[ChuckDurn]

I guess I just don't see the impact from West that I expected. While his NBA credentials cannot be questioned, I expected a more cold-hearted approach that would allow the new owners to make the best basketball decisions possible.

So far, I don't think that the best basketball decisions have been made at all. Given the choice to amnesty Biedrins or Lee, they chose Charlie Bell and his $4 mil expiring. Given the opportunity to trade Biedrins to Houston for a couple of nobodys (Tha-bust and Jordan Hill), the Warriors exercised caution and declined the offer. Granted the Biedrins offer was about 3 weeks after West arrived, but the fact remains that the deal was not taken.

West was also very high on Klay Thompson. I know the kid is a rookie and needs time to get acclimated to the league, but his biggest selling point was his ability to shoot from anywhere. Right now, that's the least of his abilities. If he cannot shoot, he's useless.

To me, the only bright spot on the team at this point is Monta, and even he has his limitations. As a fan, I want the team to do SOMETHING to prove to us that they want to win. That something just isn't happening.

I'm with you, cam. I have to admit that I don't see what West is bringing to the organization - aside from some public comments (that I agreed with) indicating he had concerns with the contract offer to Jordan, there's no indication to me at all that he's actively engaged with trying to make the team better. Of course, his title is "Consultant", so maybe he really isn't engaged. But there definitely haven't been any moves that have said "that's Jerry West's influence right there", and that's what I was looking for.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

I think the only thing West brought was love for Klay Thompson.

We looked like a playoff team for one night. Hell of a win.

 

[CameronFrye]

I think the only thing West brought was love for Klay Thompson.

We looked like a playoff team for one night. Hell of a win.

It's just too bad that they cannot look that good every night. The single most frustrating thing about the Warriors - and it's been the same thing for most of my life - is that they can look like world beaters one night and then shoot 35% from the field the next night.

 

[Heathbar012]

It's just too bad that they cannot look that good every night. The single most frustrating thing about the Warriors - and it's been the same thing for most of my life - is that they can look like world beaters one night and then shoot 35% from the field the next night.

They even shot 40% last night. They were awful in the first half (Heat were worse). Then, continued to play horribly in the third (LeBron wised up and stopped practicing his post moves since he could just drive straight to the rim anytime he wanted). That fourth quarter and OT were a thing of beauty. There was ball movement, and decent man-to-man defense.

The sad thing is that for three quarters the Warriors had no semblance of an offense. The defense was average, which is a vast improvement, and would have made them a playoff team last year. Now, however, (at least with Curry out) it's pass it around and settle for 30-foot shots by undersized 2-guards. Why can't Monta run the pick and roll with Avi?

Either way, this could be the type of win that turns around a season, and it's fun to see Nate the Great breath some life into a sputtering offense (who would've thought that would be the problem?). Unfortunately, with a short season, it might be too late. Oh, well. I can't root for them to lose, so here's to rooting for a worse pick for Utah (is that who has it now?). Ugh.

 

[tzill]

They even shot 40% last night. They were awful in the first half (Heat were worse). Then, continued to play horribly in the third (LeBron wised up and stopped practicing his post moves since he could just drive straight to the rim anytime he wanted). That fourth quarter and OT were a thing of beauty. There was ball movement, and decent man-to-man defense.

The sad thing is that for three quarters the Warriors had no semblance of an offense. The defense was average, which is a vast improvement, and would have made them a playoff team last year. Now, however, (at least with Curry out) it's pass it around and settle for 30-foot shots by undersized 2-guards. Why can't Monta run the pick and roll with Avi?

Either way, this could be the type of win that turns around a season, and it's fun to see Nate the Great breath some life into a sputtering offense (who would've thought that would be the problem?). Unfortunately, with a short season, it might be too late. Oh, well. I can't root for them to lose, so here's to rooting for a worse pick for Utah (is that who has it now?). Ugh.

They were awful on defense the second and third quarters. In fact, that second quarter was the WORST 12 minutes of the season. We just don't have guys who can/want to defend.

Again, trade Curry to get rid of Avi, and trade Monta to get rid of Beans. We'd then have about $14MM on the books (plus any low cost non-expiring contracts taken back) for next year. We'd have:

Wright
Udoh
Rush
Thompson
McGuire
Tyler
Jenkins

So, 8 slots and $44MM to play with. Add in 2 slots for draftees and 2 for players acquired in the purge and we'd have 4 slots and roughly $36MM. Top UFAs to be available:

PG: Felton, Terry
SG: Fields, Pietrus
SF: Budinger
PF: Garnett, Jamison
C: Duncan, O'Neal, Mohammed

I could see adding O'Neal and Fields, maybe Terry.

 

[EKmane]

They were awful on defense the second and third quarters. In fact, that second quarter was the WORST 12 minutes of the season. We just don't have guys who can/want to defend.

Again, trade Curry to get rid of Avi, and trade Monta to get rid of Beans. We'd then have about $14MM on the books (plus any low cost non-expiring contracts taken back) for next year. We'd have:

Wright
Udoh
Rush
Thompson
McGuire
Tyler
Jenkins

So, 8 slots and $44MM to play with. Add in 2 slots for draftees and 2 for players acquired in the purge and we'd have 4 slots and roughly $36MM. Top UFAs to be available:

PG: Felton, Terry
SG: Fields, Pietrus
SF: Budinger
PF: Garnett, Jamison
C: Duncan, O'Neal, Mohammed

I could see adding O'Neal and Fields, maybe Terry.

that would defeat rebuilding. I'm with you on the trades, I even think a package wit Ellis will net us another lottery pick. If we go into rebuild mode we'll get to keep our lottery pick too. With this draft two lottery picks will help us come out better than we are now. Way better balance.

 

[tzill]

that would defeat rebuilding. I'm with you on the trades, I even think a package wit Ellis will net us another lottery pick. If we go into rebuild mode we'll get to keep our lottery pick too. With this draft two lottery picks will help us come out better than we are now. Way better balance.

It depends upon how many picks and players we take back with multiyear deals. If we hold to the idea of no multiyear deals coming back, AND we pick up another first round pick or two, then you've got 8 existing players plus four draft picks. That'd leave 3 open spots and $35MM to spend. You'd like to think we could get someone like Howard then.

 

[Heathbar012]

It depends upon how many picks and players we take back with multiyear deals. If we hold to the idea of no multiyear deals coming back, AND we pick up another first round pick or two, then you've got 8 existing players plus four draft picks. That'd leave 3 open spots and $35MM to spend. You'd like to think we could get someone like Howard then.

That's what scares me about "blowing it up." If Howard decides to sign elsewhere or Drummond/Barnes/Sullinger busts, the Warriors are right back where they started. The 10-seed I know is better than the 10-seed I don't know? I'm incapable of seeing the benefit of losing even when there is nothing of value to lose.

 

[tzill]

That's what scares me about "blowing it up." If Howard decides to sign elsewhere or Drummond/Barnes/Sullinger busts, the Warriors are right back where they started. The 10-seed I know is better than the 10-seed I don't know? I'm incapable of seeing the benefit of losing even when there is nothing of value to lose.

Those are always risks...you can always lose out on FAs and you can always draft busts. We don't know what will happen if we blow it up. We know FOR SURE what will happen if we don't blow it up...there is no downside risk here.

 

[Heathbar012]

Those are always risks...you can always lose out on FAs and you can always draft busts. We don't know what will happen if we blow it up. We know FOR SURE what will happen if we don't blow it up...there is no downside risk here.

The downside risk is having to watch a 10-seed team that is even less entertaining. True, the net effect is the same, but then I have to watch Monta and Steph torch the Warriors at least four times a year, in addition to watching this year's team suck it up even harder for a few more ping pong balls and cap flexibility that may or may not grab an impact player.

 

[tzill]

The downside risk is having to watch a 10-seed team that is even less entertaining. True, the net effect is the same, but then I have to watch Monta and Steph torch the Warriors at least four times a year, in addition to watching this year's team suck it up even harder for a few more ping pong balls and cap flexibility that may or may not grab an impact player.

But we're a 10 seed team now...how is this a downside?

 

[Heathbar012]

But we're a 10 seed team now...how is this a downside?

The downside is watching the same outcome from players with no Warriors' history, while those players that were traded away succeed elsewhere. Like I typed before, "the net effect is the same." The problem is the organization would be exactly where it is now, but with another two years in the tank, no impact player and waiting for rookie bust contracts to expire. Thus, putting them onto the same "re-build or patchwork treadmill" they've been on for the last two decades.

I favor trading anyone for Howard and picks because, at the beginning of the year, I felt if they didn't start 5-5, they wouldn't have a shot at the playoffs. However, in general, "blowing it up" for ping pong balls and crossing fingers that a FA wants to play with a bunch of rookies, doesn't appeal to me. Part of me would rather see the Warriors battle Houston for the 8-seed for the next three years, and hopefully, stumble on some more trade-worthy assets, no hand-cuffing deals or stupid trades of picks for below average PGs.

 

[CameronFrye]

The downside is watching the same outcome from players with no Warriors' history, while those players that were traded away succeed elsewhere. Like I typed before, "the net effect is the same." The problem is the organization would be exactly where it is now, but with another two years in the tank, no impact player and waiting for rookie bust contracts to expire. Thus, putting them onto the same "re-build or patchwork treadmill" they've been on for the last two decades.

I favor trading anyone for Howard and picks because, at the beginning of the year, I felt if they didn't start 5-5, they wouldn't have a shot at the playoffs. However, in general, "blowing it up" for ping pong balls and crossing fingers that a FA wants to play with a bunch of rookies, doesn't appeal to me. Part of me would rather see the Warriors battle Houston for the 8-seed for the next three years, and hopefully, stumble on some more trade-worthy assets, no hand-cuffing deals or stupid trades of picks for below average PGs.

Heath - I totally understand what you're saying here. I just don't happen to agree. I would rather see teh Warriors TRY to do something and fail instead of continuing along the same path.

My first option would be to trade either Monta or Curry (If Monta is dealt, Curry stays and vice versa) plus ANY other players on the roster to get Dwight Howard or another available superstar - although I don't think another is on the block right now. If that happens and Dwight walks, oh well. At least they tried.

My second option would be to blow up the team and trade good contracts to get rid of the bad contracts. Target expiring deals and then try to rebuild with the draft and free agent signings. The biggest reason I do not like this idea is because the Warriors have NEVER shown an ability to land a top-tier free agent and they have consistently shown the inability to hold onto money when they have it. $84 mil for _avi_ Lee when he was worth half that; $7 mil for Kwame Brown just because they failed to land Howard or Jordan; etc etc etc. But even rebuilding through the draft and a few trades would be more acceptable than watching this team fail at something we already know is not going to work. And obviously Monta and Curry would have to be traded to the East to minimize the pain.

My last option is to try to make a series of trades to rebuild the team on the fly. This is the least palatable because the Warriors just don't have enough good tradeable assets to get back the players they would need.

Keeping the team as it exists now just cannot be an option if the Warriors want to seriously contend in the West.

 

[Heathbar012]

Heath - I totally understand what you're saying here. I just don't happen to agree. I would rather see teh Warriors TRY to do something and fail instead of continuing along the same path.

My first option would be to trade either Monta or Curry (If Monta is dealt, Curry stays and vice versa) plus ANY other players on the roster to get Dwight Howard or another available superstar - although I don't think another is on the block right now. If that happens and Dwight walks, oh well. At least they tried.

My second option would be to blow up the team and trade good contracts to get rid of the bad contracts. Target expiring deals and then try to rebuild with the draft and free agent signings. The biggest reason I do not like this idea is because the Warriors have NEVER shown an ability to land a top-tier free agent and they have consistently shown the inability to hold onto money when they have it. $84 mil for _avi_ Lee when he was worth half that; $7 mil for Kwame Brown just because they failed to land Howard or Jordan; etc etc etc. But even rebuilding through the draft and a few trades would be more acceptable than watching this team fail at something we already know is not going to work. And obviously Monta and Curry would have to be traded to the East to minimize the pain.

My last option is to try to make a series of trades to rebuild the team on the fly. This is the least palatable because the Warriors just don't have enough good tradeable assets to get back the players they would need.

Keeping the team as it exists now just cannot be an option if the Warriors want to seriously contend in the West.

That's fine with me. I don't disagree with making a bold move because the net is the same even if it blows up in their faces (pun intended). If they make the Howard trade and he walks, they're looking at another five years of mediocrity. Of course, there will be another two to three years of mediocrity if they don't make any move at all, but like I questioned above, is the 10-seed I know better than the 10-seed I don't know? For you, yes. For me, indifference with a slight sting, watching Monta, Steph or both fill it up, elsewhere.

 

[CameronFrye]

Well, it sounds like the Hack-a-Dwight strategy might not have been such a good idea.

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