Dodgers' Clayton Kershaw

[evolver115]

It may or may not hinder the Yankees, and it certainly won't hinder the Dodgers for quite a while, but it is the very definition of accountability. You spend this, you pay that.As for the young FA's bolting for other teams, that's out of date as well. The current trend is teams locking their young stars up with team friendly extentions early in their careers.

Big deal. So they jack up your price for the watered down cup of beer and your game day ticket and they pay the luxury tax and get on with it.

That 'penalty' isn't going to stop a team who has the assets from spending what their heart desires.

As for teams locking up their young talent...

That is only really true for the large market clubs. Small market teams still can't hold onto their studs when FA approaches and arb years expire. Do you really think McCutchen will sign another deal to stay in Pittsburgh when his current deal is up in a couple seasons?

He'd be a fool not to break the bank when that day arrives, and I can't blame him.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

It's great to be a Dodgers fan right now! and Kershaw doesn't have much history with injury so I am not too worried.

 

[steveringo]

Dodgers have a lot of players making over $20+ mil a year.


Clayton Kershaw-$30 mil per year
Zach Grienke-$26 mil per year
Matt Kemp $21 mil per year
Adrien Gonzalez-$21 mil per year
Carl Crawford-$20 mil per year
Hanley Ramirez-$16 mil next season FA after that
Josh Beckett-$15 mil next season, FA after that

Feel like I am forgetting some names???


What is the team payroll for the Dodgers currently, with the Kershaw deal?

With Kershaw, they are at $236 (assuming $30m/yr) guaranteed thus far. They still have numerous minor contracts to work out (including a couple arbitration deals)... This is not their AAV - which is used for lux tax:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tBbMgiEHXYczpjt0I7dajQQ&output=html

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

What irritates me is that the top market teams aren't really ever held accountable for their overspending ways. They don't have a cap to contend with, so every FA that comes along from one of the small market clubs is almost guaranteed to bolt for the payday that awaits them that the large spending teams can provide.

Then, when things get too out of control, they can purge their egregious errors to other teams by a trade (Boston to LA in the mini-abortion of two seasons ago), or paying another team to take their mistake (Burnett to PIT).

The big market teams suffer very little for their poor spending habits, and IMO, it really is the only professional sport in N. America where that is true. The playing field is the most uneven in MLB than any other prof. sport.

Tell that to the Mets.

I think the lack of a salary cap is what makes MLB the best sports league in the country. MLB teams have real identities that reflect (well enough) the areas they're located. There's typically a big difference between the way AL East and NL West teams are put together and I think that makes baseball fun.

 

[evolver115]

Tell that to the Mets.

I think the lack of a salary cap is what makes MLB the best sports league in the country. MLB teams have real identities that reflect (well enough) the areas they're located. There's typically a big difference between the way AL East and NL West teams are put together and I think that makes baseball fun.

My gripe with the lack of a cap is basically this; a small market team can do everything right, build a competitive 25 man roster through the draft and trades, add players via rule 5 and foreign FA signings, develop all of that talent through the minor leagues, making sure you aren't rushing your prospects too hurriedly and finally put your best starting nine on the field.

Great, you've finally got yourself a team that can compete with the big boys... unfortunately, you are only going to be able to really compete for a two to four year window, because you cannot afford to give your best three or four players what it will cost to keep them because when they finally run out of arb years and become eligible for FA, the big spending markets come calling with assets you can't possibly hope to compete with.

So all that time in the minors preparing you player for the majors, effort spent by your staff coaching him up, and money spent either negotiating arb years or buying them out on your cornerstone ball players was basically done to prepare him to sign his one big contract with a different club who has the assets to lure him away just when he is reaching his prime.

Wash, rinse and repeat. Small market clubs are the AAAA teams for the big spenders of MLB. It's the furthest thing from a fair and balanced process there is in N. American professional sports.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

My gripe with the lack of a cap is basically this; a small market team can do everything right, build a competitive 25 man roster through the draft and trades, add players via rule 5 and foreign FA signings, develop all of that talent through the minor leagues, making sure you aren't rushing your prospects too hurriedly and finally put your best starting nine on the field.

Great, you've finally got yourself a team that can compete with the big boys... unfortunately, you are only going to be able to really compete for a two to four year window, because you cannot afford to give your best three or four players what it will cost to keep them because when they finally run out of arb years and become eligible for FA, the big spending markets come calling with assets you can't possibly hope to compete with.

So all that time in the minors preparing you player for the majors, effort spent by your staff coaching him up, and money spent either negotiating arb years or buying them out on your cornerstone ball players was basically done to prepare him to sign his one big contract with a different club who has the assets to lure him away just when he is reaching his prime.

Wash, rinse and repeat. Small market clubs are the AAAA teams for the big spenders of MLB. It's the furthest thing from a fair and balanced process there is in N. American professional sports.

I get your gripe. I just don't think it happens often enough to complain about it.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

Sounds like a bunch of communist talk to me.

 

[evolver115]

I get your gripe. I just don't think it happens often enough to complain about it.

This scenario just finished playing itself out in Milwaukee. They knew there was a finite window of opportunity while Fielder, Braun, Hart and Am-Ram were all still together. They made the choice to keep one star (Braun) with the limited resources they are stuck with and essentially made the decision that Fielder and everyone else of value would eventually be allowed to leave via FA or a last ditch trade.

They loaded up for their run, went out and sold the farm for 3 months of CC, and got within a game or two of the World Series. Next, they sold off what was left of their farm to bring in another legit starting pitcher in Grienke in hopes that this last ditch effort while the offense was still there, and they could make their final push.

Fast forward to present day and their minor league system is gutted, they have one legit all-star in Braun yet they have zero hope of surrounding him with another core of offensive position players who can help them win now because they have zero assets and are limited by the small market they are in.

They're back to square one of being a crap team in a small market. As for their next window of opportunity... That's anyone's guess. Probably at least three to four years down the road.

 

[calsnowskier]

My gripe with the lack of a cap is basically this; a small market team can do everything right, build a competitive 25 man roster through the draft and trades, add players via rule 5 and foreign FA signings, develop all of that talent through the minor leagues, making sure you aren't rushing your prospects too hurriedly and finally put your best starting nine on the field.

Great, you've finally got yourself a team that can compete with the big boys... unfortunately, you are only going to be able to really compete for a two to four year window, because you cannot afford to give your best three or four players what it will cost to keep them because when they finally run out of arb years and become eligible for FA, the big spending markets come calling with assets you can't possibly hope to compete with.

So all that time in the minors preparing you player for the majors, effort spent by your staff coaching him up, and money spent either negotiating arb years or buying them out on your cornerstone ball players was basically done to prepare him to sign his one big contract with a different club who has the assets to lure him away just when he is reaching his prime.

Wash, rinse and repeat. Small market clubs are the AAAA teams for the big spenders of MLB. It's the furthest thing from a fair and balanced process there is in N. American professional sports.

This is my feeling as well. I would love for salaries for retained players (need to define the exact definition of "retained") to be essentially off-the-books, while FA contracts get "taxed" to the gills. No way would the MLBPA ever go for that, because it would hinder the logarithmic rise of salaries, but it would allow for the smaller markets to offer more competitive contracts to "their guys".

I basically have no problem with the dodgers signing Kershaw to this contract. He came up through their system. He is "their guy". I do have a problem with them still being able to get Greinke and go after Tanaka (and make the Boston trade). The problem is, how do you fix this issue?

A cap/floor is an idea, but it still introduces problems. Would the Giants be able to keep the team together under a Cap/Floor system? The only FAs they have on the team are Hudson, Morse and Affeldt. Everyone else was either developed, traded for or picked up off the trash-heap. That, in my eyes, is "the right way". But with a cap, they would not be able to keep Belt, Sandoval, Posey, Crawford, Bum, Cain, Romo, Timmeh, etc, let alone Pence, Lopez or Pagan (all trades).

The Pirates, Rays, Nats and Royals are teams that either are facing this issue, or will be facing it soon. The difference is that they do not have the budget to keep their cores intact the way the Giants have been lucky enough to do. I am not sure a Cap/Floor will help this situation at all.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

The tricky part is how to convince a Union as strong as the MLPA to agree to a format that benefits small markets; while at the same time still benefitting the MLPA just as much if not more to than before.

 

[evolver115]

This is my feeling as well. I would love for salaries for retained players (need to define the exact definition of "retained") to be essentially off-the-books, while FA contracts get "taxed" to the gills. No way would the MLBPA ever go for that, because it would hinder the logarithmic rise of salaries, but it would allow for the smaller markets to offer more competitive contracts to "their guys".

I basically have no problem with the dodgers signing Kershaw to this contract. He came up through their system. He is "their guy". I do have a problem with them still being able to get Greinke and go after Tanaka (and make the Boston trade). The problem is, how do you fix this issue?

A cap/floor is an idea, but it still introduces problems. Would the Giants be able to keep the team together under a Cap/Floor system? The only FAs they have on the team are Hudson, Morse and Affeldt. Everyone else was either developed, traded for or picked up off the trash-heap. That, in my eyes, is "the right way". But with a cap, they would not be able to keep Belt, Sandoval, Posey, Crawford, Bum, Cain, Romo, Timmeh, etc, let alone Pence, Lopez or Pagan (all trades).

The Pirates, Rays, Nats and Royals are teams that either are facing this issue, or will be facing it soon. The difference is that they do not have the budget to keep their cores intact the way the Giants have been lucky enough to do. I am not sure a Cap/Floor will help this situation at all.

Well said


The bolded part of your post is the exact fear I have about the Bucs. They are in a very good spot right now. Pittsburgh is flush with starting pitching talent that is either already with the big club, (Cole), or they are just a few months away (Taillon).

They have the reigning NL MVP (Cutch) locked up through '18 and an at least respectable 8 man lineup to surround him with (Alvarez, Marte, Martin and Walker). However, Martin is on an expiring deal, and Alvarez plus Walker are more than likely playing out the string of their arb years with little hope of re-signing them, especially if they continue to improve.

When judgement day comes in probably two more seasons, they will be at the same crossroads the Brewers were facing a few seasons ago. Time to cash in your chips.. Meaning trade your minor-league assets to load up for a run and hope like hell it pays off.

At the end of the ride, though.. they'll be back to square one and have to start the process all over again.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

The Royals have attempted to sign some of their guys early to counteract this problem as well as the Rays before them. Look up Salvador Perez' contract for example, it is extremely cheap for a Catcher as valuable as Perez.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

If Scherzer repeats last years numbers. His WAR will be 6.5.. just .1 behind Kershaw's WAR last year. Food for thought when Scherzer gets paid.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Not only that but the Dodgers are planning to spend more and go for everything - they have deep pockets and are easily going to outspend the Yankees

I hope it backfires on them.

 

[Nyfan1980]

Reports on twitter said that the Dodgers do have a bottom line.

 

[navamind]

The Yankees continue to ruin baseball.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

The Yankees continue to ruin baseball.

The Dodgers must be the evil empire then to destroy baseball!

 

[Silas]

Kershaw's deal makes Dodgers fans happy, of course, and frankly I believe he could have signed for even more.

That being said, I despise FA, but it's here to stay. It's not a teams fault that they play in a large market. Small market teams need to face the reality that the economics of baseball is what it is.

Oakland, Tampa Bay and other small market teams have done pretty well. Being in a small market is not an excuse for losing any more than being in a large market area is a guarantee for winning.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

This scenario just finished playing itself out in Milwaukee. They knew there was a finite window of opportunity while Fielder, Braun, Hart and Am-Ram were all still together. They made the choice to keep one star (Braun) with the limited resources they are stuck with and essentially made the decision that Fielder and everyone else of value would eventually be allowed to leave via FA or a last ditch trade.

They loaded up for their run, went out and sold the farm for 3 months of CC, and got within a game or two of the World Series. Next, they sold off what was left of their farm to bring in another legit starting pitcher in Grienke in hopes that this last ditch effort while the offense was still there, and they could make their final push.

Fast forward to present day and their minor league system is gutted, they have one legit all-star in Braun yet they have zero hope of surrounding him with another core of offensive position players who can help them win now because they have zero assets and are limited by the small market they are in.

They're back to square one of being a crap team in a small market. As for their next window of opportunity... That's anyone's guess. Probably at least three to four years down the road.

That's really not true.

Maybe the Brewers can grip about losing out on Fielder to a big market team, and I stress maybe because Milwaukee's low payroll is *NOT* because of market size, but Corey Hart signed for a $5M base salary this offseason. He can up his pay with his play but it's not like he'll be anywhere near Kershaw money even if he has an all time great season. Doug Melvin didn't exactly have to break the bank to keep him.

Their problem isn't being a small market team. Their problem is an owner who wants to keep money for himself, some bad personnel decisions, and choosing to invest in a guy whose production has been fueled by steroids.

 

[evolver115]

That's really not true.

Maybe the Brewers can grip about losing out on Fielder to a big market team, and I stress maybe because Milwaukee's low payroll is *NOT* because of market size, but Corey Hart signed for a $5M base salary this offseason. He can up his pay with his play but it's not like he'll be anywhere near Kershaw money even if he has an all time great season. Doug Melvin didn't exactly have to break the bank to keep him.

Their problem isn't being a small market team. Their problem is an owner who wants to keep money for himself, some bad personnel decisions, and choosing to invest in a guy whose production has been fueled by steroids.

Yeah, I'd say they have a pretty legit gripe about not being able to keep Fielder. His last season in the national league saw him hit 38 HR's, 120 RBI's and hit for a .299 average. You think they wanted to let him walk in FA? A guy who was a cornerstone of their offense and a former 1st round pick? You just don't replace talent like that from year to year.

Same goes for the starting pitching, which is now in a shambles. They had to watch as their failed attempts to keep Grienke and CC both went south. They gutted their entire farm system to bring those two guys in and other than Segura, they have little else to show for those players who are now elsewhere.

But, I don't blame them for making those deals when they did as they knew it was a Win now situation because the playing field in MLB is so slanted towards the large markets.

Tampa Bay will probably have to watch as their ace pitcher either gets traded this season, or walks in FA in two years to the highest bidder. They don't have the assets to pay him what he will command in the market, and they've already signed their one big contract with Longoria. Can't afford to pay them both.